fatback Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 (edited) What I would like out of onboard active is intelligence. Or memory, to be precise. Does anybody make a digital onboard, so you could create presets on the bass and then simply select them with buttons (or whatever). The big + of onboard to me would be rapid sound changes while gigging. Control knobs n dials are great for most things, but no good whatsoever for recreating settings on the fly. This is the 21st century! fatback Edited November 12, 2009 by fatback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 [quote name='GreeneKing' post='652335' date='Nov 12 2009, 09:56 AM']High quality signal processing doesn't have to be crap. Poor signal processing, even if there's less, is still crap.[/quote] But IME unless you're paying serious money for an on board pre-amp (at least J-Retro minimum) then the circuitry isn't really going to do you tone any favours. Anyone with a decent audio electronics knowledge can build a musical sounding circuit when space is no object and you can power it off the mains - your standard amp head tone controls. The real challenge comes when you want to do the same thing in the space provided by a Jazz bass control cavity and power it from a single PP3 battery. That's why the active electronics in your average sub-£1000 bass are a poor substitute for what is already there on your amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 [quote name='fatback' post='652387' date='Nov 12 2009, 10:48 AM']What I would like out of onboard active is intelligence. Or memory, to be precise. Does anybody make a digital onboard, so you could create presets on the bass and then simply select them with buttons (or whatever). The big + of onboard to me would be rapid sound changes while gigging. Control knobs n dials are great for most things, but no good whatsoever for recreating settings on the fly. This is the 21st century! fatback[/quote] What you want is a programmable rack-mounting pre-amp and a footswitch. I use a BassPod XT Pro and the Line 6 Shortboard to do exactly that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 [quote name='BigRedX' post='652411' date='Nov 12 2009, 11:02 AM']What you want is a programmable rack-mounting pre-amp and a footswitch. I use a BassPod XT Pro and the Line 6 Shortboard to do exactly that.[/quote] My thoughts entirely. Easier to use a toe than your fingers. The RH450 only has 3 presets but I find it very useful. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 [quote name='BigRedX' post='652404' date='Nov 12 2009, 10:59 AM']But IME unless you're paying serious money for an on board pre-amp (at least J-Retro minimum) then the circuitry isn't really going to do you tone any favours. Anyone with a decent audio electronics knowledge can build a musical sounding circuit when space is no object and you can power it off the mains - your standard amp head tone controls. The real challenge comes when you want to do the same thing in the space provided by a Jazz bass control cavity and power it from a single PP3 battery. That's why the active electronics in your average sub-£1000 bass are a poor substitute for what is already there on your amp.[/quote] I agree but whatever the overall effect of any circuitry I think that we need to remember that the human ear and it's associated brain are the receiver. I suspect that a perfectly symmetrical and evenly spaced series of sine waves and sub harmonics would actually sound pretty uninteresting. To my ear the best sounding basses I've owned have been active, with higher end pre-amps such as U-Retro's, ACG's and Status's product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 [quote]I use a BassPod XT Pro and the Line 6 Shortboard to do exactly that.[/quote] So does that mean using a passive bass? Or at least not using onboard EQ at all? Also, if you've two pups, what you're getting to the outboard preamp and footswitch setup is presumably a mix of your pups. What I would like to have is memory for the pup balance, ie more than just selector switching. fatback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I dont know what it is about onboard pres, but I used my ATK in anger for the first time last night, at a practice room with a big Ashdown 4x10 combo. I couldn't get a punchy sound from that combo for love nor money, until I totally flattened the amps EQ, and added some bass boost and a slight treble boost on the bass itself. After that, bloody lovely tone. So, I guess it's probably all in the voicing of the preamp? Get a good preamp, onboard or not, and you're set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfalex v1.1 Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 [quote name='fatback' post='652387' date='Nov 12 2009, 10:48 AM']What I would like out of onboard active is intelligence. Or memory, to be precise. Does anybody make a digital onboard, so you could create presets on the bass and then simply select them with buttons (or whatever). The big + of onboard to me would be rapid sound changes while gigging. Control knobs n dials are great for most things, but no good whatsoever for recreating settings on the fly. This is the 21st century! fatback[/quote] Yup. Vigier Nautilus (Just check it out!!) They streamlined it down into the EQ avaliable on the Arpege s2 and s3 until they got to s4 and went to 2x 3 band. One for each pick-up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfalex v1.1 Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 [quote name='BigRedX' post='652404' date='Nov 12 2009, 10:59 AM']But IME unless you're paying serious money for an on board pre-amp (at least J-Retro minimum) then the circuitry isn't really going to do you tone any favours. Anyone with a decent audio electronics knowledge can build a musical sounding circuit when space is no object and you can power it off the mains - your standard amp head tone controls. The real challenge comes when you want to do the same thing in the space provided by a Jazz bass control cavity and power it from a single PP3 battery. That's why the active electronics in your average sub-£1000 bass are a poor substitute for what is already there on your amp.[/quote] Agreed, space and functionality / controlability may be an issue in terms of number of controls etc. Power delivery isn't as much of an issue. Batteries DO have advantages; Freedom from mains-borne interference and a cleaner supply than most rectifed DC sources can achieve without spending a fortune. A lower probability of killing the end user if your wall-wart transformer screws up mid-(sweaty)gig Freedom from another cable (to power your eq) Some circuits can use up to 36v, but I've often wondered how you rout out space for 4x9v batteries (assuming you don't have LEDs, too) and leave much bass behind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 [quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='653482' date='Nov 13 2009, 11:20 AM']Yup. Vigier Nautilus (Just check it out!!) They streamlined it down into the EQ avaliable on the Arpege s2 and s3 until they got to s4 and went to 2x 3 band. One for each pick-up...[/quote] Don't see digital on the basses. Nice looking gear tho'. Fretless guitars? Wow. Fatback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leschirons Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 [quote name='ezbass' post='646398' date='Nov 5 2009, 05:37 PM']There is precedent for this in the guitar world. Blues/jazz genius Robben Ford had his signature Fender guitar p/ups wired straight from the selector switch to the output jack. Tone was altered via the amp and vol was controlled via a vol pedal. His guitar tone was and is to die for. I'm not saying that one way is better than the other (I wouldn't be without my passive tone control) but just that there is precedent among the great and the good.[/quote] Guthrie Govan's new sig guitar has a switch that puts everything full up onto the bridge humbucker, straight to the jack for solos. ( Sold my Robben Ford Esprit Ultra last year, big mistake) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6stringbassist Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 (edited) I've been using my Sei bass 'passive' for the last couple of months. The two pickups are wired direct to the jack socket. It was originally fitted with a John East preamp and then an ACG preamp. I quite liked the original East preamp, but didn't particularly like the ACG. It had no bypass and there was no flat position. Any tone changes are made at the amp. I use an EBS HD350 and basically just use the 'pre shape' and a slight bit of bass boost. It sounds perfect to me. I've done a few sessions in the last couple of weeks with it. And the engineer has been able to get a perfect sound for the track with the minimum of fuss every time. The engineer yesterday was a bit surprised when I explained to him how it was wired. It's quite amazing really how versatile the bass is. I just use a different 'attack' or approach to get a different sound. In the past I was constantly fiddling with the preamp knobs on gigs, changing the sound to how I thought it should be. I now realize that it was really totally unnecessary. The bass sounds perfect on its own. I may invest in a volume pedal though. And I'm going to order some wooden knobs, and fit them to cover up the holes in the front of the bass. Edited November 17, 2009 by 6stringbassist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7string Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 My Schack pre is sitting on my desk and my Sei has an empty space with 2 holes in it. Something really satisfying about taking all the gubbins out of the bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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