Musicman20 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Hey everyone In my endless quest for the right type of rigs, I am still tinkering around with the small rig idea for another band ive recently joined. It does not require mid/big cabs at all. Small modular cabs would be perfect. Ive gone through lots of different manufacturers, and in addition this weekend I actually caught sight of a Berg AE410. So, the Berg AE410....looks amazing. It is smaller than most 4x10s by far, but its still not small enough. I still want one or the HS410, but, id like to look at 2 1x12s.....which seems popular at the moment. So....the manufacturers I personally like the look of are: Berg AE112 Aguilar GS or DB 112 Epifani UL112 Now...with the size of the 112s, weight doesnt really bother me. So, the Aguilars are definitely in the list. Plus...my DB212s are amazing...there is no doubt about it. They are very nice cabs, but taking even one of those might be difficult for practices with this quieter band (still got a Ford KA until I sell it on for a caddy van). Even though they arent that heavy, and the casters are great, 2 x 112s would be great. Anyone compared the 3 manufacturers listed above? Berg AE stack = £1270, (incl covers). Aguilar DB Stack = £778. Epifani UL112 Stack - Approx £815 according to a quote. Massive price differences. I'd buy one cab at a time I think. Do the Berg's warrant that extra £492? Cheers, thanks for reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbassist Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 i think that there are some gigs that a 1 12 will do, jazz jam sessions, gigs without drummers, quiet rehearsals etc.. but if u would be using 2 then i would just use your db212....of course if you just want one then that makes sense but if you use 2 together then the benifit of size is kinda equaled out by your 212 being on wheels (unless there are serious stairs and you are on your own).....i used to own a gs112 and i really didnt use alone on anything other than jazz gigs...... saying that im replacing my hs410 with 2 EA wizzys. Im getting a normal one imported to add to my mline 12 which i use for upright. by using 2 with my db750 i can get the tone i want but if i played electric only i would stick with the hs410 and buy a small cheap 112 cab for suitable small gigs/practice.... Good luck....hope aggies are going well, i bet they sound amazing! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 (edited) Interested in where this goes... I have a 1x15 and 2x10 SWR's which JUST fit in my 2 dr car but not in the boot. I run the above x-overed but have looked at the GS's if they could do the same job. I also like the DB's in black (1x15, 2x10 ) for the cool retro look but haven't heard them. I believe those sizes are roughly the same as I already have. The Bergs confuse me... and will have to hear them but they don't seem to have a small modular build apart from the 1x12... I favour a 1x15 for a kind of Sub bass so woukld like to know if the 1x12's could do the same.. Without going in to the sound, sixe and weight side of things... my wishlist starts at the DB's .. A friend of mine swears by his Epifanis 1x 12's with a Markbass amp...and choose them over the Ags.. Edited July 12, 2009 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjonnie Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I'm more or less in the same situation, but I'm also considering 2x12" cabs. Will the Aguilar cabs be loud enough? They appear to have a fairly low efficiency compared to the other cabs. Have you considered Glockenklang? I really do like the Double (2x12) but haven't tried the Space yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share Posted July 12, 2009 [quote name='geoffbassist' post='538215' date='Jul 12 2009, 12:10 AM']i think that there are some gigs that a 1 12 will do, jazz jam sessions, gigs without drummers, quiet rehearsals etc.. but if u would be using 2 then i would just use your db212....of course if you just want one then that makes sense but if you use 2 together then the benifit of size is kinda equaled out by your 212 being on wheels (unless there are serious stairs and you are on your own).....i used to own a gs112 and i really didnt use alone on anything other than jazz gigs...... saying that im replacing my hs410 with 2 EA wizzys. Im getting a normal one imported to add to my mline 12 which i use for upright. by using 2 with my db750 i can get the tone i want but if i played electric only i would stick with the hs410 and buy a small cheap 112 cab for suitable small gigs/practice.... Good luck....hope aggies are going well, i bet they sound amazing! :-)[/quote] Hi Geoff...thanks the Aguilar gear really has opened my mind to what the company is capable of. Not only are the 12s throaty, smooth, chunky, and warm, the cabs themselves look the business. I think they've got a bassist in mind, especially with removeable casters which a lot of companies expect you to just drill in. The covers are excellent. I think Tuki make them, and then Aggie add their logo, they are thick and padded. They aren't light...I think 70lbs ish, but its not bad, and the casters make it a breeze. This is why I feel a bit mental buying more, but Id like single 12s, and ive had a good scope around. The Berg and Epifani 12s seem to tick the boxes as do the DB112s, with the DBs, from reviews ive read, adding that ceramic grunt and low end, but added weight. I had a look on EA's site, they seem interesting! I've never heard any as yet. To be honest, if I had more space id snap the HS410 off you, as that cab would be great for what I do. Such is life....Ill see how things go. The girlf wants a house now to put all this gear in...oh 'eck! [quote name='JTUK' post='538281' date='Jul 12 2009, 08:55 AM']Interested in where this goes... I have a 1x15 and 2x10 SWR's which JUST fit in my 2 dr car but not in the boot. I run the above x-overed but have looked at the GS's if they could do the same job. I also like the DB's in black (1x15, 2x10 ) for the cool retro look but haven't heard them. I believe those sizes are roughly the same as I already have. The Bergs confuse me... and will have to hear them but they don't seem to have a small modular build apart from the 1x12... I favour a 1x15 for a kind of Sub bass so woukld like to know if the 1x12's could do the same.. Without going in to the sound, sixe and weight side of things... my wishlist starts at the DB's .. A friend of mine swears by his Epifanis 1x 12's with a Markbass amp...and choose them over the Ags..[/quote] Epifani 12s arent that badly priced. I was a little put off by the recent lack of information on change of wood and drivers in their UL2 line, plus they decided to build them in China and say nothing. I have no problem with this....its a modern economy....but Ampeg have lost a lot of customers due to this type of move. I for one was so unimpressed with Ampeg's customer service that I sold my 8x10....plus 8x10s are too big. But Aguilar 8x10s....mmm....now they have low end grunt. I'd check out the DBs....ive been reading the early reviews on Talkbass, and a lot of players love them! The DBs have different voicing to the GS.... One guy even messaged me to say a mini DB112 x 2 stack has done every gig he has played, incl very large clubs and even small festivals. Thats impressive! The 12s definitely pack a punch. it won't be exactly like the 1x15 low end, but its somewhere inbetween the punch of a 10 and the warmth of a 15. I was sold on the sound after a very quick test at Bass Merchant. Bergs have always confused me. It seems like they are almost the top of the market, but the price tag here is so massive. If they were even £50 less i'd take the choice more seriously. [quote name='Sjonnie' post='538392' date='Jul 12 2009, 12:03 PM']I'm more or less in the same situation, but I'm also considering 2x12" cabs. Will the Aguilar cabs be loud enough? They appear to have a fairly low efficiency compared to the other cabs. Have you considered Glockenklang? I really do like the Double (2x12) but haven't tried the Space yet.[/quote] Ive never tried any Glock gear as yet. Seems quite rare. The DBs are a very impressive little stack. Again, another Talkbass player messaged me to say he'd swapped from the Bergs to the DBs' stating they had more low end grunt, and did a little slap better. But, that could be a number of variables. Have you tried the Glocks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjonnie Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 [quote name='Musicman20' post='538449' date='Jul 12 2009, 02:02 PM']Ive never tried any Glock gear as yet. Seems quite rare. The DBs are a very impressive little stack. Again, another Talkbass player messaged me to say he'd swapped from the Bergs to the DBs' stating they had more low end grunt, and did a little slap better. But, that could be a number of variables. Have you tried the Glocks?[/quote] I live in the Netherlands quite close to the German border, so I can get them quite easily. I have tried the Double (2x12") and was really impressed. I have more or less narrowed down my choice to Glockenklang or Aguilar (quite different I realise). I would love to try the Bergantino stuff but I'm not sure if they are available in the Netherlands. How do the GS series compare to the DB series in volume? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share Posted July 12, 2009 [quote name='Sjonnie' post='538495' date='Jul 12 2009, 02:14 PM']I live in the Netherlands quite close to the German border, so I can get them quite easily. I have tried the Double (2x12") and was really impressed. I have more or less narrowed down my choice to Glockenklang or Aguilar (quite different I realise). I would love to try the Bergantino stuff but I'm not sure if they are available in the Netherlands. How do the GS series compare to the DB series in volume?[/quote] There are a fair few comments on Talkbass about this...Ive been busy! The testing guys who regularly go on their stated the DB's voicing meant they sounded much larger...a cross between a more modern tone and old school grunt. The GS's have a mid scooped sound apparently...and the DBs don't have this at all. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 (edited) yes..I get that impression that the DB and GS are two different sets of cabs even if you compare both 1x12's.... and the DB's being the darker sounding cab.... Also, can't get the feeling that the Bergs are worth the difference... the cheesey top strap, for one.. I wouldn't want to be paying that premium unless the 1x12's are stunningly better and I am not entirely sold on the dims of the 1x12's anyway.. I would have to try them ... I still think my choice would be the DB680 and a power-amp into 1x15, and 2x10 DB's from this distance but maybe I''ll think differently after a demo and can run GS 12's at around 400watts bridged... with one of the cabs NT.. Personally, wasn't THAT knocked out with the Epi's/Markbass sound for me...but the weight was great for dep gigs.. Not entirely sold on the Mono amp idea either coming from a bi-amped set-up.. Where is the DB680 replacement as well.. that sounds just the ticket, IMV.. Could be fun all this... or maybe I have bass GAS first... Edited July 12, 2009 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowfer Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 i use 1 db112 with little mark11 head, i must admit i don't find it underpowered and has been fine for most gigs i've played, however adding a second is on the cards when i have saved the cash and convinced the wife. However, if your db212 is 8 ohm, you could purchase 1 db112 8 ohm and if you need more grunt you could use both cabs together giving you variety and the ability to move lots of air. I love my aguilar db112 and would highly recomend to others, although i have not played other your are considering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flippyfloop Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Tecamp XS112 ? I hear good reports about the 212 & the XS112 is only 22 lbs ! That's the lightest 1x12 I've found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share Posted July 12, 2009 [quote name='JTUK' post='538516' date='Jul 12 2009, 02:51 PM']yes..I get that impression that the DB and GS are two different sets of cabs even if you compare both 1x12's.... and the DB's being the darker sounding cab.... Also, can't get the feeling that the Bergs are worth the difference... the cheesey top strap, for one.. I wouldn't want to be paying that premium unless the 1x12's are stunningly better and I am not entirely sold on the dims of the 1x12's anyway.. I would have to try them ... I still think my choice would be the DB680 and a power-amp into 1x15, and 2x10 DB's from this distance but maybe I''ll think differently after a demo and can run GS 12's at around 400watts bridged... with one of the cabs NT.. Personally, wasn't THAT knocked out with the Epi's/Markbass sound for me...but the weight was great for dep gigs.. Not entirely sold on the Mono amp idea either coming from a bi-amped set-up.. Where is the DB680 replacement as well.. that sounds just the ticket, IMV.. Could be fun all this... or maybe I have bass GAS first...[/quote] The DBs are darker...they punch a little louder. I think they are Aguilar's answer to a more rock orientated cabinet. Im the same on the Bergs....I mean...I understand some prices differences, but it would have to cook my meals for me to impress me at that price. The weight is great, but its a 1x12 so weight isnt a massive issue. Ive also seen some sell secondhand for much less than their retail...so Id hate to lose that much money I havent properly heard an Epi...I dont know if their 'pillow' like low end is something that would suit me. Its always fun ....GASSSSSS Test what you can and come back to us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share Posted July 12, 2009 [quote name='lowfer' post='538552' date='Jul 12 2009, 03:30 PM']i use 1 db112 with little mark11 head, i must admit i don't find it underpowered and has been fine for most gigs i've played, however adding a second is on the cards when i have saved the cash and convinced the wife. However, if your db212 is 8 ohm, you could purchase 1 db112 8 ohm and if you need more grunt you could use both cabs together giving you variety and the ability to move lots of air. I love my aguilar db112 and would highly recomend to others, although i have not played other your are considering.[/quote] Thanks man. I was considering having two different Aggie setups...as mad as that sounds. One DB212 x 2 setup....which I have....this is for my loud bands I play in....using one for smaller gigs. And this DB112 x 2 for the more laid back band im about to join....one cab for home practice, two for gigs. I saw some photos of your LM with the DB112 and it looks great!...that half inspired me to get the little buggers and put this topic up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share Posted July 12, 2009 [quote name='flippyfloop' post='538669' date='Jul 12 2009, 06:09 PM']Tecamp XS112 ? I hear good reports about the 212 & the XS112 is only 22 lbs ! That's the lightest 1x12 I've found.[/quote] That is light! Wow....Ive checked the prices...they are roughly the same as a Berg once you add a cover. Id love to hear some Tecamp cabs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjonnie Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Personally I don't really care about the weight. Anything below say 25 kg is OK for me. I was more or less ignoring the DB series and focusing on the GS. I guess it is time to really compare them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted July 15, 2009 Author Share Posted July 15, 2009 Righty, as it approaches the middle of the month, and thus the all glorious pay day at the end, I think Im going to get one 1x12 and start my modular rig. I really like the tone of my Markbass Little Mark 3, and I want something that is small and easy to move. I need to make some decisions about it! Decision #1 – Go with another Aguilar Setup, to it would be two DB112s eventually. Advantages = I already like the tone, I know what I’m getting, the handles are on the side thus I wont be plonking my LM3 onto a handle and making it sit funny, the Tweed looks great, the price isn’t so bad, covers are very padded, pack a hell of a punch for a small cab, modular. Disadvantages = Not light, I already have Aguilar gear so maybe this is overkill, not as crisp and articulate compared to the Bergs. Decision #2 – Go with a Bergantino AE112 setup, so it would be two AE112s, eventually. Advantages = The glowing reviews, lighter, Bergantino quality, very very articulate crisp and clear, nice and modular. Disadvantages = Handles are on the top, so you need to cut out foam or something to raise your amp, (seems very strange considering the amount you pay) I have seen a few guys lose a lot of money selling them on these very forums, (am I at risk of losing virtually half of what I paid?!) which leads to the other disadvantage which is expense, and in addition with their expense, I might not use them as much as I should through worrying about them getting knocked, etc, does not have the thick bottom end that the Aguilar’s have, nowhere near as many users in the UK, I can buy Geoffs HS410 for less than one of these!!!! In addition, the spray finish looks excellent, but no corners?! I cant see them withstanding a lot. Please don’t think I’m attacking anyone with the disadvantages, I’m just looking at it from my point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjonnie Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 You are arguing towards the Aguilars... if you think the two 112's will add to the 212's you already have then go for it. Of course you could add one bergantino for the small stuff and use the 212 you already have when you need it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbassist Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 my advice would be to try the berg 12 at bass direct, if you are really intrested then you have to try em out first as they are so different to your db's.....but sjonnies idea of getting one and then using the db212 when its called for is spot on, i cant see any advantage in having 2 unless you really prefer the sound... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodl2005 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I HAD a GS112, now own a AE112. TBH it took me a cuppla weeks to get used to the BERG, but once I did- WOW it IS far better IMO. YMMV. It IS louder & seems to be able to sound modern or vintage with applomb. (??) Well. :-) I've had a LOTTA compliments on my tone with this set up(LMII>AE112) I ALSO have a LMII & while the AE112 does have the top handle the LMII sits perfectly with its 2 front 'feet' on the metal edges of the handle-thus angling UP a fraction at front. NOT wierd at all IMO. I got a mate to sew a cover for mine & it's been fine- sure the lack of protective corners etc IS not as good as the GS112 was(I like carpeted cabs too....) but I actually have a spare set of 8 plastic interlocking corners I COULD put on it if I felt the need. With THAT much $$$ difference I'd probly not go the AE112 but here in AUS the Aggies are about the same price, so......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterbass Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Didn't BG Magazine do a 1x12 shootout with Aggie, Berg, Mesa etc just over a year ago?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodl2005 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 (edited) So did Tom Bowlus on TB... who now runs BASS GEAR MAG.. which is free for internat. online viewing & GREAT!!! Edited July 16, 2009 by rodl2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Balsamic Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 (edited) [quote name='coasterbass' post='541935' date='Jul 16 2009, 09:02 AM']Didn't BG Magazine do a 1x12 shootout with Aggie, Berg, Mesa etc just over a year ago??[/quote] Yeah I think they liked the Aguilar the best as it sounded about as good as the Berg, but was cheaper. I think they gave a Zoot cab the value award when it was only slighlty cheaper than the Aguilar they seemed to love. Edited July 16, 2009 by Uncle Balsamic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 [quote name='Uncle Balsamic' post='542243' date='Jul 16 2009, 01:57 PM']Yeah I think they liked the Aguilar the best as it sounded about as good as the Berg, but was cheaper. I think they gave a Zoot cab the value award when it was only slighlty cheaper than the Aguilar they seemed to love.[/quote] There's no way that was a serious review. They didn't even look inside the cabs. It was like Top Gear reviewing a car by giving it a quick spin around the block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesfinn Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 posted this under my friends log in by accident..here it is again, bit from me. The Zoot cabs have now changed the branding. they are now called Purple Chilli and are absolutely fantastic. some design tweak upgrades from the zoot cabs and are now finished in a very swish purple tolex on the front half and black on the back half with white piping between. same combo of celestion drivers and eminance crossovers. they are light weight compact and good value. the website is uner construction but theres a myspace page with all the info up. just search purple chilli amps. id say its as good as my aguilar rig if not better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB2000 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 [quote name='geoffbassist' post='538215' date='Jul 12 2009, 12:10 AM']i think that there are some gigs that a 1 12 will do, jazz jam sessions, gigs without drummers, quiet rehearsals etc.. but if u would be using 2 then i would just use your db212....of course if you just want one then that makes sense but if you use 2 together then the benifit of size is kinda equaled out by your 212 being on wheels (unless there are serious stairs and you are on your own).....i used to own a gs112 and i really didnt use alone on anything other than jazz gigs...... saying that im replacing my hs410 with 2 EA wizzys. Im getting a normal one imported to add to my mline 12 which i use for upright. by using 2 with my db750 i can get the tone i want but if i played electric only i would stick with the hs410 and buy a small cheap 112 cab for suitable small gigs/practice.... Good luck....hope aggies are going well, i bet they sound amazing! :-)[/quote] I use a pair of EAs, a normal one together with an MLine, and only play electric. I use them with a Genz Neopack giving and the combination makes a really light adaptable rig. I've never tried Bergs but I wouldn't use Aguilar GS cabs if I got them for free. They have a massive mid range scoop, which makes them sound great if you're playing in isolation, but in a band situation they are hopeless. Bass is in the mids, and the Aggies just don't have any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegg Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I've got a Berg Ae112 which I was using for DB and BG with a Shuttle 3 - 10 Combo. This was a great combination but just not loud enough for stage monitoring for the festival we did two weekends ago. After talking to Mark at Bass Direct, who is a top bloke by the way, I have bought a second AE112. The two AEs together are just fantastic. The new one has got very discrete metal corner protectors which would solve one of your problems. I bought both of mine with covers and the old one still looks mint after 12 months gigging and rehersals. All the best Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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