How mass produced is mass produced?

[Mrbigstuff]

Struggling to sleep and got thinking about how I’ve never seen the basses I’ve sold on here a decade or longer ago for sale again or even a twin. Some of these are what we would term “mass produced” therefore I never thought them as particularly rare but now I’m wondering if they are.

 

The basses in question:

A year 2000 Fender AM DLX Jazz Bass 5 in trans red with a maple board

An EB MM 2006 3EQ Stingray in trans teal (was more green than blue) with a maple board

A Warwick Thumb NT FL 5 - think it was 2000ish

 

Are production numbers actually lower than we (I) think or is it a coincidence the basses all found happy owners. Anyone else experienced this?

 

PS Wish I had pics!

[LowB_FTW]

Manufactured in large quantities = mass produced.

I suspect a few thousand of something would qualify as mass produced.

I have no idea in what quantities basses are produced, so I can't help with that.

 

Mark

[Mokl]

Working in music retail gave me a different perspective. We sold basses from the 3 brands you mentioned, and would pretty regularly re order popular colour combos, for example. It's not like we sold loads of US Stingrays, but I know for sure there would have been several examples of the same spec/colour in the same town, so when you expand that globally it's not insignificant! 

 

I do think more people hold onto quality instruments than perhaps we assume; being members of this GAS - inducing den of disrepute (Bass chat) I think warps the perspective a little 😂

[HeadlessBassist]

It is interesting, isn't it? Along with being 'mass produced' also comes that ratio of good ones, average ones and bad ones. I never see most of my old basses again either - I hope that's because they were all very nice examples that played and sounded fantastic. I guess they all found good homes, or several more good homes since my careful stewardship. 

 

Also, as I travel around the country picking up various basses for sale, I realise that there are a lot of Bass Players around who don't visit these hallowed pages.

 

But yes, as for your list, maybe they are a little less 'mass' produced than we think. Fender maybe sells 1000 Indonesian Standards for every 100 Player series sales, and maybe those 100 Players equate to 50 American Professional sales, so how many American Deluxe/Elite/Ultras do they sell compared to those 1000 Indonesian Standard basses? 10? Obviously they must sell in much larger numbers than suggested above in order to feed that behemoth of a business, but it starts to give you an idea.

 

 

 

 

[Mrbigstuff]

44 minutes ago, Mokl said:

Working in music retail gave me a different perspective. We sold basses from the 3 brands you mentioned, and would pretty regularly re order popular colour combos, for example. It's not like we sold loads of US Stingrays, but I know for sure there would have been several examples of the same spec/colour in the same town, so when you expand that globally it's not insignificant! 

 

I do think more people hold onto quality instruments than perhaps we assume; being members of this GAS - inducing den of disrepute (Bass chat) I think warps the perspective a little 😂

There aren’t many stores left in the UK at least but they do tend to sell the same stuff. Maybe the market has become more concentrated than it was 20 years ago?

 

I think you’re right about basschatters tending to swap more than others, but bassbros and bass direct seem to get through second hand stock fairly quickly.

[Burns-bass]

1 hour ago, HeadlessBassist said:

It is interesting, isn't it? Along with being 'mass produced' also comes that ratio of good ones, average ones and bad ones. I never see most of my old basses again either - I hope that's because they were all very nice examples that played and sounded fantastic. I guess they all found good homes, or several more good homes since my careful stewardship. 

 

Also, as I travel around the country picking up various basses for sale, I realise that there are a lot of Bass Players around who don't visit these hallowed pages.

 

But yes, as for your list, maybe they are a little less 'mass' produced than we think. Fender maybe sells 1000 Indonesian Standards for every 100 Player series sales, and maybe those 100 Players equate to 50 American Professional sales, so how many American Deluxe/Elite/Ultras do they sell compared to those 1000 Indonesian Standard basses? 10? Obviously they must sell in much larger numbers than suggested above in order to feed that behemoth of a business, but it starts to give you an idea.

 

 

 

 

I read that Fender makes more profit from the Squier lines than any of its US operations.

 

I reckon the ratios are probably right in your post. 

[Stub Mandrel]

General Production Estimates
While exact historical data is unavailable, some general figures provide context on Fender's overall manufacturing volume:

    Early Precision Basses: Fewer than 200 Fender Precision Basses were sold per year in the early 1950s, a number that increased to approximately 1,000 annually by 1959.
    1970s Production: In the early to mid-1970s, a former employee reported the Fullerton factory was "cranking out about 400 guitars per day", which amounts to roughly 96,000 per year for all instrument types.
    Modern Production: More recent estimates suggest that Fender makes close to half a million guitars a year across all models and types, with some estimations of around 90,000 basses annually (including Squier models). 

[nige1968]

11 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

General Production Estimates
While exact historical data is unavailable, some general figures provide context on Fender's overall manufacturing volume:

    Early Precision Basses: Fewer than 200 Fender Precision Basses were sold per year in the early 1950s, a number that increased to approximately 1,000 annually by 1959.
    1970s Production: In the early to mid-1970s, a former employee reported the Fullerton factory was "cranking out about 400 guitars per day", which amounts to roughly 96,000 per year for all instrument types.
    Modern Production: More recent estimates suggest that Fender makes close to half a million guitars a year across all models and types, with some estimations of around 90,000 basses annually (including Squier models). 

The world surely can’t be creating bass guitarists quickly enough to maintain that level of production indefinitely.

[Stub Mandrel]

1 minute ago, nige1968 said:

The world surely can’t be creating bass guitarists quickly enough to maintain that level of production indefinitely.

 

Your not naively assuming a 1:1 bass:bassist ratio? 🤣🤣

[nige1968]

Just now, Stub Mandrel said:

 

Your not naively assuming a 1:1 bass:bassist ratio? 🤣🤣

Of course not but I’m running out of room to put food and clothing 🫠

[jonno1981]

Gibson famously added an extra serial number to US production a few years back, implying they were making more than 999 guitars a day. Can you maintain quality control if you’re under pressure to make that many??

Also worth checking out the various YouTube factory tours of the cort and Yamaha factories for an idea of the scale of production. It’s nuts! 

[Acebassmusic]

8 minutes ago, jonno1981 said:

Can you maintain quality control if you’re under pressure to make that many??

 

Yes. As an example Ford make over 4 million vehicles per year which contain many more complex parts than a relatively simple guitar / bass. It's all in the processes & systems.

[tegs07]

1 hour ago, nige1968 said:

The world surely can’t be creating bass guitarists quickly enough to maintain that level of production indefinitely.

If every 15th person in China alone took up bass then 👍 

[nige1968]

28 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

If every 15th person in China alone took up bass then 👍 

 

That would be cool

[kodiakblair]

10 hours ago, tegs07 said:

If every 15th person in China alone took up bass then 👍 

Still some way off but it could happen.

 

Zheng'an county has a big fancy guitar info centre, brochure/handout leaflet says 30 million Chinese folks have taken up guitar playing in the last 10 years 🙂  

 

 

[Mrbigstuff]

44 minutes ago, kodiakblair said:

Still some way off but it could happen.

 

Zheng'an county has a big fancy guitar info centre, brochure/handout leaflet says 30 million Chinese folks have taken up guitar playing in the last 10 years 🙂  

 

 

Off topic but I’d hate to think what the new demand in such a wealthy country could do to inflate vintage guitar demand and therefore prices further.

[chris_b]

Mass produced. . . someone calls the timber yard and orders 20 tons of wood to be delivered.

 

Not mass produced. . . . the luthier goes to the timber yard and selects the wood he's going to make into basses.

[kodiakblair]

@Mrbigstuff

 

I don't see that happening, there's no real parallel between China and Japan in this respect.  Post-war Japan had crippling poverty coupled with a heavy US military presence, folk grew up with a culture they wanted but couldn't afford. When their economy picked up folk bought American. China had decades of crippling poverty but almost zero experience of US culture.  Now things have improved, when they want nice things they buy domestic 🙂

 

One of the Zheng'an luthiers, Zhang Weiyi, charges between $26,000 and $52,200 for his guitars; man has a waiting list 😎