Basic Income for Artists

[tegs07]

10 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

 

You're absolutely bonkers.

 

Here are some stats: https://www.jrf.org.uk/uk-poverty-2025-the-essential-guide-to-understanding-poverty-in-the-uk#:~:text=More than 1 in 5,adult poverty stayed the same.

 

I'm just prepping for a board meeting at Citizens Advice and the stories of poverty we hear from the staff and volunteers are truly heartbreaking. I appreciate you like to act as an antagonist, but come on.

I think those of us who are fortunate enough to have bought property years ago or are lucky enough to have a council house can’t begin to understand how much of peoples wages are being eroded by rent/mortgage payments. For many (and this includes people who are well paid) the lions share of their income is gone before they even consider every day bills like utilities and food.

Edited 5 hours ago by tegs07

[Burns-bass]

2 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

I think those of us who are fortunate enough to have bought property years ago or are lucky enough to have a council house can’t begin to understand how much of peoples wages are being eroded by rent/mortgage payments. For many (and this includes people who are well paid) the lions share of their income is gone before they even consider every day bills like utilities and food.

 

A lot of poverty is hidden, too. Poverty is vulnerability, isn't it?

 

Unless there's a collective acknowledgement that we live in an incredibly unfair society, we can't move on. (This happened at the end of the Victorian period and post both world wars). Since then, all Governments have effectively spent their terms taking things away from us while telling us they had no choice doing so.

[tegs07]

32 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

 

A lot of poverty is hidden, too. Poverty is vulnerability, isn't it?

 

Unless there's a collective acknowledgement that we live in an incredibly unfair society, we can't move on. (This happened at the end of the Victorian period and post both world wars). Since then, all Governments have effectively spent their terms taking things away from us while telling us they had no choice doing so.

True but I think it’s even deeper. Every time there is a liquidity crisis (one is brewing right now over the pond) the distorted Keynsian response is to open the pumps and flood the financial system with money (usually at minimum repayment rates). It’s then like the Gremlins with water scenes. It’s loaned out over and over again chasing scarce hard assets as the game is up. Nobody in their right mind (unless they are Warren Buffet who will stash it to buy distressed companies) will hoard the cash, I guess a few brave souls might start a business or keep their zombie one going. I would argue however that the majority of it ends up in assets and puts prices up across the board. The people doing this find many ways of not paying any tax so the Government have little choice but to cut services - again who in their right minds (other than pension funds obliged to buy the crud) is going to fund the government deficit by buying bonds that are going to pay a rubbish return as the currency loses purchasing power.

 

Yep I know. I know the dogs bark and the people are forced into caravans.

 

Edit: Gary Stephenson has a series coming out on Channel 4 soon which will be worth watching. I don’t 100% agree with everything he says but he is trying hard to make the case that change is crucial if we don’t want to see Victorian levels of poverty again. A big part of my preoccupation with this issue is I honestly think it’s a possibility we will end up with a system where people are either in Victorian levels of poverty or are effectively indentured servants leasing every thing from their financial overlords.

Edited 4 hours ago by tegs07

[prowla]

These "you earn more money than me so you can afford to pay more taxes" evangelists are so blinkered that they can't see the bigger picture.

In my case I've been helping my sons through uni and other things for the past however many years.

If the state or other circumstances took that off me then it would've been detrimental to them.

There's a saying that charity begins at home and, especially in these times, this is very true.

[peteb]

23 minutes ago, prowla said:

These "you earn more money than me so you can afford to pay more taxes" evangelists are so blinkered that they can't see the bigger picture.

In my case I've been helping my sons through uni and other things for the past however many years.

If the state or other circumstances took that off me then it would've been detrimental to them.

There's a saying that charity begins at home and, especially in these times, this is very true.

 

That's hardly the 'bigger picture', that's just your own personal small picture that you think is more important than that of other people. 

 

[Lozz196]

2 hours ago, tegs07 said:

I think those of us who are fortunate enough to have bought property years ago or are lucky enough to have a council house can’t begin to understand how much of peoples wages are being eroded by rent/mortgage payments. For many (and this includes people who are well paid) the lions share of their income is gone before they even consider every day bills like utilities and food.

Definitely, in Hemel Hempstead where I live there’s no way I could afford to buy on my salary now. And the cost of renting a one bedroom flat here would cost me 2/3 of my monthly take home. 

[tegs07]

Bristol is the same. It’s shocking and kind of links back to the original topic. Do artists need a basic income or does everyone deserve to live in a society where the purchasing power of their money isn’t eroding faster than the cost of assets, goods and services?

Apparently because of a basket of hair curlers, organic miso, a rice cooker and a bowler hat (or whatever shit is in the CPI this week) every thing is tickety boo and we are in the land of honey.

Edited 2 hours ago by tegs07

[peteb]

I live in Bradford, which I believe is one of the cheapest cities in the country to buy a house. Even so, we couldn't afford to live in the suburb where my wife has lived most of her life and where I went to school. Bear in mind that this is a pretty middling town, certainly not the poshest part of the district, and that we have a combined household income of around three times the average. 

 

[TimR]

So some people must have a lot of money. Around 64% of households do own a house.

 

Yes. It's unequal and getting worse, possibly. Maybe it gets better as you get older, it should, otherwise what's the point of saving and investing? 

 

Ironically if people's earnings were more equal, more people would be below the poverty line as it's a 'relative' measure. Ideally we are all pretty equal when 1 in 3 are in poverty. 

 

I guess it depends on your interpretation of my use of 'loads' - that's obviously relative as well. Loads more people are above the poverty line than below it.

 

None of this explains why people are staying at home and spending money on pizza and takeway and watching rubbish TV while surfing the internet.