"higher end" Fender basses

[Reggaebass]

7 minutes ago, HeadlessBassist said:

 

 

 

 

I recently bought and set up a Squier 40th Anniversary Jazz for a pupil. Yes, it's a great sounding & playing bass, but a good American Fender bass still sounds and feels superior

 

 

 

 

 

In glad you’ve mentioned this, I often hear hear how there’s not much difference between a squier and US made bass, in my experience there is a big difference, I bought my nephew an affinity jazz and it felt and sounded nothing like my CS and AVRI jazzes, it was an older one and I’m sure they’ve improved since, I can’t say if the price difference is worth it because that’s up to the individual , they both do the same job but I think it’s what makes you happy and feel good playing 

[Terry M.]

12 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

In glad you’ve mentioned this, I often hear hear how there’s not much difference between a squier and US made bass, in my experience there is a big difference, I bought my nephew an affinity jazz and it felt and sounded nothing like my CS and AVRI jazzes, it was an older one and I’m sure they’ve improved since, I can’t say if the price difference is worth it because that’s up to the individual , they both do the same job but I think it’s what makes you happy and feel good playing 

I've played some American Fenders that felt lifeless and dull and Squiers that were not and have owned several of each. I watched a video online earlier this year where a "gourmet" food stand was set up and was giving out free samples. Everyone actually thought they were eating gourmet food and was seemingly impressed. It was revealed to be Greggs all along. 

[HeadlessBassist]

49 minutes ago, Terry M. said:

This is subjective. On paper yes the Fender is supposed to be superior but...

 

No, as a professional musician, I'm telling you that my American Jazzes feel and sound superior. This is not to say that the Squier 40th isn't a very good Jazz. It definitely is.

[HeadlessBassist]

45 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

In glad you’ve mentioned this, I often hear hear how there’s not much difference between a squier and US made bass, in my experience there is a big difference, I bought my nephew an affinity jazz and it felt and sounded nothing like my CS and AVRI jazzes, it was an older one and I’m sure they’ve improved since, I can’t say if the price difference is worth it because that’s up to the individual , they both do the same job but I think it’s what makes you happy and feel good playing 

 

Yes, if you have good ears, you can hear the difference in the resonance with the better quality woods, through body stringing, and the better quality pickups make a huge difference, too. I also use identical 40-95 Elixir sets on all of them, so you can acutely pick out the differences  

[Reggaebass]

26 minutes ago, Terry M. said:

I've played some American Fenders that felt lifeless and dull and Squiers that were not 

I suppose there’s good and bad in all different ones , I’ve never had a bad American one myself , neither has anyone I know, you get what you pay for 

[HeadlessBassist]

29 minutes ago, Terry M. said:

I've played some American Fenders that felt lifeless and dull and Squiers that were not and have owned several of each. I watched a video online earlier this year where a "gourmet" food stand was set up and was giving out free samples. Everyone actually thought they were eating gourmet food and was seemingly impressed. It was revealed to be Greggs all along. 

 

Yes, there are undoubtedly some mutts in every Fender range. As I always say, you get one diamond in every 10-20 basses with Fender, so it is very difficult to generalise. I've been lucky with my main three Jazzes. They're all fantastic working tools that I love the feel and sound of and all three earn me a large chunk of my living. Again, obviously they're still not a patch on my Status basses, but then you're talking another ballpark entirely.

[Mrbigstuff]

1 hour ago, HeadlessBassist said:

All instrument makers have had to deal with increased costs in parts and labour in recent years, and Americans (and Mexicans) want financial security, houses, cars and pensions (same as us here in the UK!), so everything gets more expensive. Food, cars, houses, etc have all doubled in price in recent years. Unfortunately, musicians' earnings seem to be ignored when it comes to said increases, so instruments seem to get ridiculously pricey to us. 

This is basically the only guaranteed difference. Does the buyer really want something that has been assembled in the west or something assembled in the east!

[Terry M.]

25 minutes ago, HeadlessBassist said:

 

No, as a professional musician, I'm telling you that my American Jazzes feel and sound superior. This is not to say that the Squier 40th isn't a very good Jazz. It definitely is.

I'm not telling you what your experience is at all,no way can I do that. I'm saying that it feels superior to YOU which is all that matters 👍

[Mrbigstuff]

28 minutes ago, HeadlessBassist said:

 

No, as a professional musician, I'm telling you that my American Jazzes feel and sound superior. This is not to say that the Squier 40th isn't a very good Jazz. It definitely is.

You don’t need to be a professional musician to understand the sound a guitar makes 😂

[Terry M.]

24 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

I suppose there’s good and bad in all different ones , I’ve never had a bad American one myself , neither has anyone I know, you get what you pay for 

I paid for a brand new American Fender once and within weeks the paint started to peel. Fender replaced it through the retailer Guitar Guitar but I've never had a Squier do that.

[Terry M.]

7 minutes ago, Mrbigstuff said:

This is basically the only guaranteed difference. Does the buyer really want something that has been assembled in the west or something assembled in the east!

If it's made well it makes no difference where it was assembled. 

[Jack]

2 hours ago, HeadlessBassist said:

 

No, as a professional musician, I'm telling you that my American Jazzes feel and sound superior. This is not to say that the Squier 40th isn't a very good Jazz. It definitely is.

 

What is objectively superior when talking about feel or sound? I can see being objective for something like build quality, paint finish, tuner reliability, bridge adjustability, etc etc. But "better sound"? I dunno.

[HeadlessBassist]

18 minutes ago, Jack said:

 

What is objectively superior when talking about feel or sound? I can see being objective for something like build quality, paint finish, tuner reliability, bridge adjustability, etc etc. But "better sound"? I dunno.

 

Depends on how acutely you listen, I suppose. (Unless you have those ears that say 'a bass is a bass'.)

 

I could even tell you which of my three Americans is which while blindfolded - they all have unique voicings.

The nitro finished American Original has it's own free-sounding singing tone from the finish and the Pure Voiced 64 pickups.

The open pore Ash FSR has a very different punchier bottom end from the 2008 Am.Std pickups.

The American Elite has more sparkle at the top end and a distinct active shove to the bass frequencies.

Edited 10 hours ago by HeadlessBassist

[jd56hawk]

Nothing intrinsically wrong with Fender basses, but I have to imagine that even today, some people still aren't aware there are better options out there.

 

Other than that.. 

(FWIW - I'm afraid if its not a Fender I'm not interested, yes there are lots of awesome basses out there that aren't Fender but that's a different thread for a different day). 

Seriously?

Because of the name on the headstock?

(Always curious to know why some go for only one particular company, whether it's Fender, MusicMan, Gibson, Rickenbacker, etc.)

 

Edited 10 hours ago by jd56hawk

[Terry M.]

24 minutes ago, HeadlessBassist said:

 

Depends on how acutely you listen, I suppose. (Unless you have those ears that say 'a bass is a bass'.)

 

I could even tell you which of my three Americans is which while blindfolded - they all have unique voicings.

The nitro finished American Original has it's own free singing tone.

The open pore Ash FSR has a very different punchier bottom end from the 2008 Am.Std pickups.

The American Elite has more sparkle at the top end and a distinct active shove to the bass frequencies.

But someone with double the hearing acuteness you have can still prefer the sound of a Squier over your American Fenders. Aren't we talking about personal taste here? "Good" sound is subjective. How many of us has spent quite a bit on "upgrading" pickups only to either not hear the difference or prefer the originals?

Edited 10 hours ago by Terry M.

[HeadlessBassist]

Just now, Terry M. said:

But someone with double the hearing acuteness you have can still prefer the sound of a Squier over your American Fenders. Aren't we talking about personal taste here? "Good" sound is subjective.

 

Absolutely, Terry. Yes, a certain Squier may have the right sound for you and may outplay all the Custom Shop Fenders you might try.

 

But I still maintain that even though some of the prices are ridiculous, you are getting (given you pick the right one for you) a better bass by buying from the American ranges.

[Stub Mandrel]

What's interesting to thois debate aren’t the few people with extreme views either way, it's what range of instruments/ brands do people with experience of many basses typically think.

 

One guide could be this thread:

 

Most seem to have a broad selection including a good sprinkle of Fenders.

 

There are a few who choose one maker, or even one style.

[Terry M.]

10 minutes ago, HeadlessBassist said:

 

Absolutely, Terry. Yes, a certain Squier may have the right sound for you and may outplay all the Custom Shop Fenders you might try.

 

But I still maintain that even though some of the prices are ridiculous, you are getting (given you pick the right one for you) a better bass by buying from the American ranges.

I've owned American Fenders and I've owned Squiers and I've enjoyed both to some degree but can't see any "magic" with the USA made stuff,but you mustn't interpret this as "they're crap" They're not crap. CNC machines work indiscriminately regardless of where they're plugged in. In this day and age I find it hard to believe there's a magic formula to bolting together two pieces of wood with just 4 screws and a thin metal neckplate is all I'm saying. The marketing machine would have us believe otherwise but really? 

[HeadlessBassist]

2 minutes ago, Terry M. said:

I've owned American Fenders and I've owned Squiers and I've enjoyed both to some degree but can't see any "magic" with the USA made stuff,but you mustn't interpret this as "they're crap" They're not crap. CNC machines work indiscriminately regardless of where they're plugged in. In this day and age I find it hard to believe there's a magic formula to bolting together two pieces of wood with just 4 screws and a thin metal neckplate is all I'm saying. The marketing machine would have us believe otherwise but really? 

 

Agreed. And the CNC machine can't account for wood density or other variables. We were talking about this the other week on Mike Brooks' channel, where Warwick made several examples of the same model bass from the same tree, and they all still sounded very different to each other.

[Burns-bass]

4 hours ago, Terry M. said:

But this simplicity and quality can exist in far-eastern produced Squiers at a fraction of the cost. Exactly how can Fender justify the much higher prices for essentially the same thing? I think with regards to sounds between boutique and Fender basses ,in many cases the "best" bass tone isn't what's required.I've been in situations where people just want the sound they're used to hearing on their favourite albums. It makes no difference to them if an alternative sounds "better". I'm not suggesting this applies to you personally but it's definitely out there.

Perhaps its all in my head (but I’m sure it isn’t) that the USA ones simply do sound and feel better.

 

The materials and components on a USA jazz and the build quality genuinely are higher. The modern ones much more so than the vintage ones (of which I have owned a lot of).

 

I appreciate they’re basic designs and you’re certainly paying a premium for the brand over something like Xotic, but god knows what I’d do with a preamp like that!

 

None of it really matters to 99% of the population, of course. My backup bass for double bass gigs is this £150 Bronco - which is fantastic.

[Jack]

1 hour ago, HeadlessBassist said:

 

Depends on how acutely you listen, I suppose. (Unless you have those ears that say 'a bass is a bass'.)

 

I could even tell you which of my three Americans is which while blindfolded - they all have unique voicings.

The nitro finished American Original has it's own free-sounding singing tone from the finish and the Pure Voiced 64 pickups.

The open pore Ash FSR has a very different punchier bottom end from the 2008 Am.Std pickups.

The American Elite has more sparkle at the top end and a distinct active shove to the bass frequencies.

Nothing to do with accuracy, you don't know which one of us has the better ears. What if I don't want singing, I don't want punch and I don't want a bottom end? I'm not arguing about whether basses sound different, I'm arguing whether one bass sounds objectively better than another.

 

 

Edited 8 hours ago by Jack

[Mrbigstuff]

1 hour ago, HeadlessBassist said:

 

Agreed. And the CNC machine can't account for wood density or other variables. We were talking about this the other week on Mike Brooks' channel, where Warwick made several examples of the same model bass from the same tree, and they all still sounded very different to each other.

And that’s where a luthier who hand picks the woods can hopefully make some difference. Not that I’m saying there is an exact science to the outcome based on woods alone. Handmade doesn’t always mean better than CNC either, there’s just too many variants.

[Mrbigstuff]

1 hour ago, Burns-bass said:

Perhaps its all in my head (but I’m sure it isn’t) that the USA ones simply do sound and feel better.

 

The materials and components on a USA jazz and the build quality genuinely are higher. The modern ones much more so than the vintage ones (of which I have owned a lot of).

 

I appreciate they’re basic designs and you’re certainly paying a premium for the brand over something like Xotic, but god knows what I’d do with a preamp like that!

 

None of it really matters to 99% of the population, of course. My backup bass for double bass gigs is this £150 Bronco - which is fantastic.

Loverly flame!

[Doctor J]

23 hours ago, BlueMoon said:

Unfortunately it seems every time Fender dares to bring out a modern instrument it tends to bomb with the hard core P and J fans, and they pull it. The Dimension is a case in point. Not a bad bass, but it didn’t last long. Tweeking the existing high demand instruments and charging a huge premium for the name seems to be their philosophy.
 

I found the mid 90’s US output a notch up in terms of quality (coincides with John Suhr’s input, no doubt), as well as mid 2010’s. The Ultra is a step down from the Elite in my eyes. No longer a MM truss rod wheel adjuster and no string though body option. Onwards and upwards?

When was the last time Fender brought out something where there weren't established market leaders in place already? What useful innovations have they pushed since Mr Fender sold out in the 60's? The Dimension tried to enter a space created by Musicman and G&L 30-odd years previously. Who was that bass aimed at, who was the target market? It came across as a half-assed effort at entering the humbucker game, just flung out there in the hope that they could poach some stragglers from leading brands in that market. It seems like everything they "innovate" has already been done better elsewhere. How is it possible they don't lead the Jazz-on-steroids market? How have they never managed to develop (or even buy or licence) a class-leading pre-amp and mate it with their instruments?
 

Having that big F on the headstock is not enough to just plop something onto the market and not think strategically through design, production and marketing thoroughly before making the half-assed effort which has become their trademark, sadly. They got lazy on the legacy of that name. I'd be of the opinion that everything they offer is made better (and usually cheaper) by someone else. Then people say "Oh nobody wants Fender to do anything different" when it's more that everything different they do has already been done better elsewhere.

 

But folks love having that big F on the headstock all the same, no matter what. It's always gas seeing home assembled parts builds and custom relic jobs getting that brand-name stuck on them 😂

[Doctor J]

Duplicate post

Edited 7 hours ago by Doctor J