Suggestions for a Fender wide range humbucker type pickup.

[Dazed]

As the title says. Other than the dimarzio versions what’s out there? 
I’ve seen a few boutique pickups -

stone”something”, Novak and some other US builders but they are almost as expensive as original fender ones. 
 

If you know of a 5 string version too, well you get a bag of quavers. 

Edited February 5 by Dazed

[Jono Bolton]

The Creamery do them now:

 

https://www.creamery-pickups.co.uk/classic-75-starcaster-bass-tele-wide-range-bass-humbucker.html

 

I haven't bought one, though I did consider it for my Telebass. I've had a couple of Precision pickups from Jaime before and they're great.

Edited February 5 by Jono Bolton

[Dazed]

Thanks @Jono Bolton yes I had seen these before they’re on my list. 
 

 

[Cato]

Can't help with makers but for authentic Wide Range pickups you'll need to go for CuNiFe magnets, that's what made the original Fenders unique.

 

The Creamery version above has that as an option but a lot of the Wide Range offerings from other manufacturers, including the current Fender version do not.

[neepheid]

16 minutes ago, Cato said:

Can't help with makers but for authentic Wide Range pickups you'll need to go for CuNiFe magnets, that's what made the original Fenders unique.

 

The Creamery version above has that as an option but a lot of the Wide Range offerings from other manufacturers, including the current Fender version do not.

 

And I'm living for how grudgingly it has been offered!

 

"CUNIFE DOES CARRY A HIGHER PRICE AS THEY JUST COST MORE FOR ME TO HAVE THEM CUSTOM MANUFACTURED BUT AFTER BEING ASKED ON A WEEKLY BASIS FOR THE PAST NUMBER OF YEARS, I FINALLY GAVE IN AND HAD THEM MANUFACTURED."

 

 

[floFC]

@Dazed are you looking for something that looks like a wide range? Sounds like one?

For something a bit different, I have a pair of humbuckers from a DeArmond Starfire, which I think are of a similar size - way too big for what I originally bought them for anyway. I have been looking for a solid body to drop them in (a tele bass most likely)- what are your plans for the body?

Anyway, maybe some alternatives there with Guild/DeArmond humbuckers.

[kodiakblair]

1 hour ago, neepheid said:

And I'm living for how grudgingly it has been offered!

Inside he's doing cartwheels thinking about all the repeat business he'll see.

 

CuNiFe might be hard enough to make threaded machine screws from but it's crap at holding a charge, every 10 year or so they'll want zapped back up to full strength.

[Dazed]

On 05/02/2024 at 16:24, floFC said:

@Dazed are you looking for something that looks like a wide range? Sounds like one?

For something a bit different, I have a pair of humbuckers from a DeArmond Starfire, which I think are of a similar size - way too big for what I originally bought them for anyway. I have been looking for a solid body to drop them in (a tele bass most likely)- what are your plans for the body?

Anyway, maybe some alternatives there with Guild/DeArmond humbuckers.

I struggle to explain or put into words a particular sound, but I’ll try…. It’s more the sound than the shape I’m interested in, although the bass I have in mind does have a large humbucker fitted but I suspect it’s not the same shape and size as a wide range humbucker.

 
I have a bass, with what would probably be described as a mudbucker -at least in shape- but may just be a large humbucker. It’s placed a bit closer to the neck than say a jazz neck pickup would be but not as close as mudbuckers are often found.
So the sound I’m chasing is similar to a Rick but also the 70s(?) telebass. A bit tubby(?) a bit raspy almost fuzz but not, no sparkle but more zing and thick and bassy 😄

[Dazed]

On 05/02/2024 at 15:24, Cato said:

Can't help with makers but for authentic Wide Range pickups you'll need to go for CuNiFe magnets, that's what made the original Fenders unique.

 

The Creamery version above has that as an option but a lot of the Wide Range offerings from other manufacturers, including the current Fender version do not.

I probably need to troll YouTube to hear examples of cunife magnet versions against all other types to see what difference is. 

 

The thing is the sound I have in my head, which is a loose reference is post production so could have untold effects shaping it. 

[kodiakblair]

1 hour ago, Dazed said:

I probably need to troll YouTube to hear examples of cunife magnet versions against all other types to see what difference is. 

I was reading a CuNiFe pickup thread just yesterday, on  Gretsch Talk. 

 

First post was interesting as the fella pasted an email he'd got from Curtis Novak regarding magnets.

 

"Hi Don, I use threaded rod magnets and the alloy I use is FeCrCo. The thing is an old pal of mine who was an engineer at Gibson, and was pals with Seth said that Fender had contracted with Seth to design a humbucker, that would compete with Gibson's but still sound like Fender's sound. Their whole goal was to have a humbucker, with adjustable pole pieces that still sounded like a Fender pickup with AlNiCo magnets. They choose CuNiFe, NOT b/c it had any mystical sonic properties, but rather b/c it sounded closest to AlNiCo AND could be machined into a screw.

 

In my former life I spent 16 years working at one of our National Laboratories, and was pals and worked with a number world renowned metallurgists, and physicists. They all confirmed that in a sensor such as a guitar pickup, there is NO special sonic characteristic that the alloy CuniFe would have over AlNiCo, or FeCrCo other than their grade strength, and their orientation to the coil. All 3 alloys being equal in strength, shape and orientation to the coil would give the same sonic results.

 

Outside of factual data there is much hype that starts putting this pickup in the same category as the Loch Ness Monster, and Bigfoot designed to create an artificial fervor and demand for it and to attempt justify an astronomical price. In my personal experience working both in high level research science and my many years with pickups, I have seen when people get way too wrapped up in their data, assumptions, goals, desires, and their egos. In the end they are only researching and accepting results that confirm their desires. They tend to lose focus and get way off track of their original goal and with pickups they start listening with their eyes, and stop using their ears.

Glad you like them. Curtis"

 

After my experiences with different single coils I'm of much the same mind as Mr Novak 👍

[itu]

2 hours ago, kodiakblair said:

They choose CuNiFe, NOT b/c it had any mystical sonic properties, but rather b/c it sounded closest to AlNiCo AND could be machined into a screw...

 

...All 3 alloys being equal in strength, shape and orientation to the coil would give the same sonic results.

Exactly. I worked with magnets for several years. Material does not create anything else than just a field. The shape can affect the field, but not the material itself.

 

Material can dictate the maximum field possible. Some basic ferrite magnets are weak at their best, while Sm-Co, and Nd magnets can be very powerful. BUT if any very dense material is poorly magnetized, even a potentially powerful material can be very weak.

 

Some people tend to think that any set of letters equal the power of the material, the magnet. This definitely is NOT the case.

 

Without a decent unit, measuring magnets is hard. Without some knowledge on measuring magnets, getting decent results is complicated. Without finding a feasible place to measure magnets, well, you get my point. Even surroundings play an important part of the equation.

 

Maybe one reason in believing to materials is the complexity. Measuring equipment is expensive and rare. The field changes drastically, when minuscule changes are done. The interaction between a pickup, string, and the finger/pick that moves the string seems to be magical. (Which is actually true, when I look at any master player.) But everything is about plain physics mixed with some materials.

[itu]

By the way, how wide is the frequency response of this "wide range" pickup?

[JohnDaBass]

10 hours ago, itu said:

By the way, how wide is the frequency response of this "wide range" pickup?

As wide as Loch Ness🤣🤣🤣

 

Oops, I'll get my coat 🙄

[Baloney Balderdash]

On 05/02/2024 at 16:24, Cato said:

Can't help with makers but for authentic Wide Range pickups you'll need to go for CuNiFe magnets, that's what made the original Fenders unique.

 

The Creamery version above has that as an option but a lot of the Wide Range offerings from other manufacturers, including the current Fender version do not.

What is this then: https://www.fender.com/en-GR/accessories/pickups/cunife-wide-range-humbucker/0992297002.html

[Cato]

7 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

What is this then: https://www.fender.com/en-GR/accessories/pickups/cunife-wide-range-humbucker/0992297002.html

That's the skinny string version, they've being doing those for 3 or 4 years, but the equivalent 4 bass version they've been using on the recent Vintera IIs and Squier Rascals is just standard alnico.

Edited February 13 by Cato

[Baloney Balderdash]

50 minutes ago, Cato said:

That's the skinny string version, they've being doing those for 3 or 4 years, but the equivalent 4 bass version they've been using on the recent Vintera IIs and Squier Rascals is just standard alnico.

Ah, right.

 

Thanks for clarifying that. 

 

Edited February 13 by Baloney Balderdash

[Cato]

33 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

Ah, right.

 

Thanks for clarifying that. 

 

To be honest I'm just a massive Thinline Telecaster geek..

 

I go through a cycle o geting the urge to put the recent CuNiFe reissues into one of my late 90s reissues to make it more 'authentic' but the truth is I really like them with the PAF style humbuckers they were born with.

 

Like a lot of things in the guitar world there's a lot of myths and snakeoil about the original Wide Range humbuckers.

 

As far as I know no other mass production guitar maker even went down the CuNiFe path and Fender only made them for 8 or 9 years between 1971 and 1979.

 

Truth is that neither they or the Deluxe and Thinline Tele models that used them were that popular at the time, partly because the Wide Ranges were significantly lower output than the double humbucker Gibsons of the same period.

 

But because of unique magnet and their relative difficulty to obtain, over the last 40 years or so these original , unpopular,  CiNiFe Wide Ranges managed to obtain such a mystique that in 2020ish Fender  brought them back for the first time in 40 years for their US Deluxes and Thinlines.

Edited February 13 by Cato

[Dazed]

Thanks for all the input, you can’t beat science can you? Well until new science comes along anyway. 
So in a nutshell what we’re saying is sonically it doesn’t really matter what type of magnet is used, assuming they are similar strength? That’s a bit of a relief because those old original Fender jobs are ridiculous money and probably need recharging after all this time. Much like myself 😄

[kodiakblair]

58 minutes ago, Dazed said:

So in a nutshell what we’re saying is sonically it doesn’t really matter what type of magnet is used, assuming they are similar strength?

We are 🙂

 

59 minutes ago, Dazed said:

you can’t beat science can you? Well until new science comes along anyway. 

New science still has to deal with all the myths, legends and old wives' tales folk cling to regards pickups; new/old Science has a hard task 😃

[neepheid]

I had (probably alnico) "Wide Range" humbuckers in a Fender Modern Player Starcaster bass and honestly, I thought they were utter gash.

[kodiakblair]

1 hour ago, neepheid said:

I had (probably alnico) "Wide Range" humbuckers in a Fender Modern Player Starcaster bass and honestly, I thought they were utter gash.

No idea what is in my Modern Player but I'm well chuffed with them 🙂 

 

Might go as far as replace the Lakland Chi-Sonic in the TeleBass with the spare Wide Range in the pickup drawer, after all that was the reason for buying it 😄

[neepheid]

I played one gig with it and it was bloody hard work just trying to get heard - the only way to get anywhere with it was to use the bridge pickup only to wring enough mids out of it and even then it was unerwhelming.  No (useable) top end and the low end just got lost.  Sold it pretty soon after that experience, I don't care how nice it looked, if I can't get it to sound right at a gig then it's gone.

 

I do wonder if I would have got on better with a Coronado with its Fidelitrons, but it's all academic now 'cos I realise now that I don't like playing shorties anyway.