Car insurance

[ossyrocks]

11 minutes ago, Linus27 said:

 

Plus, there is a list of things you can claim back as expenses before submitting your tax return, for example, travel, stage clothes, accommodation, insurance, repairs, consumables etc. The list is huge and we used to claim back on literally everything we possibly could and it went through without any query. 

Yes, and you can also depreciate tools - such as amps and basses, typically over five years. So a £5k bass can knock off £1k every year from your tax liability, regardless of whether or not the bass is actually increasing in value!

[Downunderwonder]

2 hours ago, ossyrocks said:

£1000 a year

I am pretty sure that is absolute peanuts compared to when the figure was set. Could be wrong.

 

Our IRD is far more crafty and defines business as anything you do regularly that turns a profit. No definition of regular!

[40hz]

Fwiw, I've had two prangs in cars (neither I was at fault for, both cars written off) and neither time was the subject remotely broached as to where I was going/what I was doing/purpose of travel, with either the police or insurers.

[xgsjx]

I worked for a major insurance company for over a decade. Best thing to do is phone them & ask, as each company can have a different perspective on what to class it as.  They’ll get details from you and speak with an underwriter if it’s something they’ve not had before. 
Chances are, it might be classed as “Commuting”, but it could also be classed as “Business”. It could depend on how often you gig. 
 

Something to bear in mind is how/if your gear is covered.  Doubtful that your car insurance will cover any of it & often home insurance will only cover theft if it’s concealed out of sight in a locked vehicle. 

[jezzaboy]

Thanks for all the helpful replies👌

[TimR]

My take on this is that if you have business use it implies that your tools and equipment are covered from damage in an accident and possibly if you're leaving tools and equipment in your vehicle, that makes it more attractive to theives. 

 

So normally the insurance company won't have a clue or be interested where you're going or what you're doing until you try to make a claim for musical instruments stolen from the car or damaged in an accident. 

 

And you can't double insure stuff, so if your gear is covered under a separate musical instruments/performing policy you'll only be covered under one of them.

 

Regards the tax implications, to be able to claim tax back etc. I believe the IR are not interested unless you're operating with the intention to make a profit, and if you have a day job, you're operating as a hobby with any money earned unlikely to offset any costs. My costs just for rehearsing don't even cover what I get for gigs. I'm not sure if you could claim for the whole car and insurance as a business expense, I think just 40p per mile. I did look into it and it gets complicated tracking assets etc. Spotify subscription, mobile phone and broadband...

 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by TimR

[TimR]

On 12/09/2023 at 10:44, Downunderwonder said:

I am pretty sure that is absolute peanuts compared to when the figure was set. Could be wrong.

 

Our IRD is far more crafty and defines business as anything you do regularly that turns a profit. No definition of regular!

 

It was set in 2016. Its roughly the equivalent of 100-150 hours on minimum wage and I suspect its set at that level for that particular reason.

 

Elsewhere on the Govt website it states that if the intention is to make a profit you need to be a Sole Trader, but elsewhere that you only have to notify them and fill in a Self Assesment if you turnover more than £1000.

 

This is further complicated that if you make a 'loss' on your hobby income, you can't offset that against main income. I believe most people in that situation talk to HMRC and agree that there's no point in doing self assessment and they then write to you to agree. 

 

Interestingly if you sell a bass for over £6k with the intention of making a profit you have to inform them, but if you're not intending to make a profit, you don't.

 

All very complicated. 

Edited September 13, 2023 by TimR

[xgsjx]

7 hours ago, TimR said:

My take on this is that if you have business use it implies that your tools and equipment are covered from damage in an accident and possibly if you're leaving tools and equipment in your vehicle, that makes it more attractive to theives. 

 

So normally the insurance company won't have a clue or be interested where you're going or what you're doing until you try to make a claim for musical instruments stolen from the car or damaged in an accident. 

 

And you can't double insure stuff, so if your gear is covered under a separate musical instruments/performing policy you'll only be covered under one of them.

 

Regards the tax implications, to be able to claim tax back etc. I believe the IR are not interested unless you're operating with the intention to make a profit, and if you have a day job, you're operating as a hobby with any money earned unlikely to offset any costs. My costs just for rehearsing don't even cover what I get for gigs. I'm not sure if you could claim for the whole car and insurance as a business expense, I think just 40p per mile. I did look into it and it gets complicated tracking assets etc. Spotify subscription, mobile phone and broadband...

 

 

It can vary, but that’s not usually what it is. 
Here’s  examples.

If you drive to work but don’t use your vehicle whilst you work (other than for personal use), then that’s commuting. 
If you drive to work, but then use your car whilst you’re working, for example driving from office to office, then that’s business. 
However, if you intend to carry business tools in your car from home to work & then back, then it could be just classed as commuting, but some insurers may see it as an increased theft risk & want to charge extra, hence business. 
Car insurance will cover a small amount of personal goods in the car (usually just about £500 tops), but it’s very unlikely to cover your music gear if it was a paid gig & if it did, would leave you out of pocket. 
Home insurance “could” cover it as Personal belongings (might need specified) or extra business tools cover if they can give it, but for the gigging musician, you’re better to go with an instrument insurer such as Blue Moon or the MU.  They also give you public liability cover in with the cost. 
 

Edit to say, if you’re insured under more than 1 policy, then the claim will be shared by all insurers, but should only show as a claim on 1 policy. So if you had cover up to £500 on your car insurance, £4k on your home insurance & was also fully covered on your MU insurance, you’d make a claim on your MU insurance & they would contact the other 2 insurers to get them to chip in towards the cover. However, this should not show as a claim on the other 2 policies, nor should it affect the price of them, as the claim was made through MU. 

Edited September 13, 2023 by xgsjx

[TimR]

Yes. I don't think if you had 2 policies each of £500 that you could claim £1000.

 

I was thinking damage to gear would be covered by the 3rd party who hit you. They'd be liable for all damage caused, not just to your car. Your comprehensive insurance would indeed detail the level of possesions covered.

 

I think it's only covered as commuting if it's travel to your regular place of work. If you visit different sites that's business travel. But again - it's only a hobby if you're not at sole trader level. 

 

I'd be surprised if many here have business insurance specifically to cover gigging.

[MacDaddy]

What a faff. Renewal quote up by £70.

Did the compare sites, plus the insurers not on them, and found the cheapest quote on a Cashback site, which will almost match last years premium when I get the cash back.

[Boodang]

This all reminds me of something I watched on one of those 'fly on wall' traffic cops shows. A police car following a vehicle, he notices theres a large amount of sandwiches in the back. He pulls over the hapless driver who says, oh yes, I'm delivering them for my sisters cafe. The policeman, having already done a check on her insurance and confirmed its only s,d&p, and much to the disbelief of the driver, then writes her a ticket.