New bass

[steve_p]

My delux gear4music bass turned up yesterday and I am wondering what I need to do to upgrade it. Straight out of the box it seems quite playable, with no obvious faults. I suspect however, that the action can be improved, but I am planning on leaving things to settle down for a month or so before sending it away for a set-up. I am curious as what other G4M customers have done to modify this instrument?

Does anyone have any suggestions regarding strings - I intend to use the bass at home only, and for learning how to play walking bass lines?

The bass has a solid spruce top. Should I expect the instrument tone to change over time, due to the bass opening up?

Cheers

[jrixn1]

14 hours ago, steve_p said:

I suspect however, that the action can be improved [...] Does anyone have any suggestions regarding strings

 

I'm going to guess that the bass came with generic steel strings and a medium string height?

 

Lower string height isn't necessarily better - it depends what works best for your particular bass, technique, tonal aspirations, and string choice.

 

Spirocores with a lower string height is likely the most popular choice for jazz musicians; but some people like me prefer gut substitute (or real gut) with a higher string height for the tone and easier playability; or a combination, or something else.  There is not just the one way to go.

 

So as long as the setup currently isn't so bad that the instrument is holding you back, I would leave everything as it is, and concentrate on learning to walk.  Then revisit this topic after some time (more than a month).

 

Quote

Should I expect the instrument tone to change over time, due to the bass opening up?

 

Not sure about this.  I've had my current modestly-priced hybrid Chinese bass for 10 years, and if the tone has improved it's because I've got better at playing it rather than the bass itself ageing like a fine wine.

 

 

[Reggaebass]

I don’t wait a month to set mine up, I do it almost immediately with my preferred strings which are labella flats ,and set up the bass to a nice low action 

[Reggaebass]

I should add that I would wait a few days for it to settle if it’s come from abroad and been in the plane hold or a cold warehouse 

[steve_p]

Thanks for the comments guys. Although I have no experience of the feel of a well set up instrument, nothing feels wrong at the moment, and the bass is quite playable, so I am going to wait a bit for the set up.

I am not sure of the type of strings I want to put on the instrument yet, so it would make sense to delay the set up until I have stopped faffing about and reached a decision. The fingerboard has a bevel for gut strings, so I am increasingly thinking of putting gut strings on. Any suggestions of brands  - good or bad?

[jrixn1]

I'm really happy with my Aquila Gold Springs Synthetic G+D & whatever their recommended matching A+E are called (NB not real gut).  They come from Italy and FWIW I paid about £200 including import duty etc.  I think other posters will have more experience and better recommendations than me though.

 

If you go to jam sessions (which I highly recommend anyway for getting better at walking), you can ask to use the house bassist's bass - a good way to try out other types of bass, strings, and setup.

[NickA]

The "Romberg bevel"!!

 

Surprised to hear of that on a modern bass.  Helps when bowing floppy bottom strings... You can really dig in ( my 1880s bass and my 1900 cello have it ). Don't need it frankly as I'm using higher tension modern strings. No use for pizz at all really.  Wonder why they did that 🤔

 

Opening up?  Probably not much at the price point, the wood is likely quite thick and inflexible.  My dB does seem to go on strike if I don't play it for a bit tho.   Play regularly, give it a good hard bowing ...who knows.  Most improvement will likely come from increased hand strength from all the playing rather than changes to the wood.

[steve_p]

Must admit that the Romberg bevel threw me at first. I was going to complain to G4M that my fingerboard was defective, until I noticed a description of it on a luthier's page. Oops!

I am going to go for gut or similar strings, but am looking for a set that will handle pizz and arco equally well.

Great advice from this forum folks. Thanks!

[Burns-bass]

30 minutes ago, steve_p said:

Must admit that the Romberg bevel threw me at first. I was going to complain to G4M that my fingerboard was defective, until I noticed a description of it on a luthier's page. Oops!

I am going to go for gut or similar strings, but am looking for a set that will handle pizz and arco equally well.

Great advice from this forum folks. Thanks!

 

I found Golden Slaps are a good string, but you may need some set up help when using a gut-style string with a romberg bevel. They can slap against the fingerboard, which is great if that's what you want but it may not be!

 

I switched (because of a recommendation here ) to Spiro Solos at Orchestra pitch. Much better!

[NickA]

NOTHING handles arco and pizz REALLY well, but equally well is viable.  I had some D'Addario Hybrid strings which were playable but not great for either and bowed better the spiros which were brill for pizz.  Recently bought eva pirazzis (sythetic core not real gut) and they sound good for arco and good enough for pizz that I don't swap them out for Jazz gigs,  £230 a set though.

 

Yes, that romberg bevelly thing is good for bowing; originally for bowing big fat guts, probably non-would ie naked guts.  I've never had a problem with mine though .. and it is a bit of a help bowing really hard on the E-string - not that the opportunity arises that often!

[JoeEvans]

A luthier told me that basses 'open up' in tone after about forty years of playing. No idea if it's true but if you play it for forty years it will definitely sound better!

[Bloopdad1]

3 hours ago, JoeEvans said:

A luthier told me that basses 'open up' in tone after about forty years of playing. No idea if it's true but if you play it for forty years it will definitely sound better!

If that were true a double bass Luthier wouldn't be able to sell a new £15000 bass. 

Everyone would be looking to buy old basses. 

It takes a decent setup, and for the first 6mths a couple of trips back for sound post tweaks and general checks but basically you're good to go from day one. 

*Providing you've bought from a great Luthier with a proven track record. 

Ultimately if a bass needed 40yrs to "play in" there would never be any new basses! 

[JoeEvans]

14 hours ago, Bloopdad1 said:

If that were true a double bass Luthier wouldn't be able to sell a new £15000 bass. 

Everyone would be looking to buy old basses. 

It takes a decent setup, and for the first 6mths a couple of trips back for sound post tweaks and general checks but basically you're good to go from day one. 

*Providing you've bought from a great Luthier with a proven track record. 

Ultimately if a bass needed 40yrs to "play in" there would never be any new basses! 

Yes - I don't think he meant that basses were no good until they were forty, more that if there is such a thing as a 'playing in' effect, it takes a very long time...

[NickA]

Some time in the 1980s I talked to Ronald Prentice about getting a new bass built. Another maker told me "don't, his basses are really stiff, and he always tells people they open up with playing, and they don't"..... Nevertheless a Prentice bass would cost you £20k+ these days and they're well thought  of... 40 years later!

 

Generally true that older basses play better, but that's offset by wear and tear.  Certainly you get a better bass for your money buying used..but probably have higher maintenance costs too.

 

I really doubt these things affect an £800 Chinese factory bass tho. Tis what tis.

[tinyd]

In terms of the action/string height, if you measure at the end of the fingerboard you'll be able to compare with what other people use. Mine go from about 6mm on the G to about 10mm on the E which is probably fairly typical for pizz/jazz playing. If yours are significantly higher than this then it might be worth reducing.

[knirirr]

On 24/08/2023 at 19:50, steve_p said:

 The fingerboard has a bevel for gut strings, so I am increasingly thinking of putting gut strings on. Any suggestions of brands  - good or bad?

 

I tried some of these (the fully synthetic version) on an EUB with good results:

 

https://gollihurmusic.com/upright-bass-strings/3-4-and-4-4-size/4-string-standard-tuning/evah-pirazzi-gold-slap-upright-bass-strings/

 

These are on my acoustic:

 

https://gollihurmusic.com/evah-pirazzi-upright-bass-strings/

 

When I brought up the topic of guts in a lesson the answer was that though the tone may be good, the hassle wasn't worth it in the end.

 

 

[NickA]

1 hour ago, knirirr said:

the hassle wasn't worth it in the end.

Certainly not. 

 

I loved the sound of pirastro eudoxas on my cello and insisted on silver wound guts for years.  But blackened fingers, endless retuning, short life and even having the silver wear through, come unwound and slice my finger .... was enough to shift to first synthetics, then back to steel.

 

Cello now on steel Larsens, Double bass now on synthetic core Eva Ps.

 

Plus you could spend the value of the bass on stings quite quickly! Eudoxas, RRP= £923 a set!!!!

[steve_p]

On 02/09/2023 at 11:45, tinyd said:

In terms of the action/string height, if you measure at the end of the fingerboard you'll be able to compare with what other people use. Mine go from about 6mm on the G to about 10mm on the E which is probably fairly typical for pizz/jazz playing. If yours are significantly higher than this then it might be worth reducing.

Thanks for the comment. My strings are pretty high at the moment but I cannot get the action lowered until I stop faffing about and decide whether to go for a gut-like set and a high action, or spiros and a lower action. I have ordered a set of tungsten jazzicatos to play about with while I make up my mind.

Luckily I live not far from a luthier who can do the upgrade work needed for this instrument. Unluckily, as my location is Scotland, in order to get the bass back home once it has been set up, I will have to drag it up a bloody great hill! Bass buggy is now top of my purchase list.

[NickA]

Bridge adjusters.  I got Tim Batchelar to convert my old fixed bridge and it is an amazing improvement. 

 

Down for easy action and extra mwah when jazzing, up for extra tone and volume at orchestra.

 

Go to any jazz gig and you'll see the bass has an adjustable bridge.

 

The " proper" thing to do is fit a high enough bridge to get the best tone and volume, then get the fingerboard raised to give you the action you want....expensive but perfect if you're only going to play one kind of music on one kind of string.