Undertone Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 After 35 years playing mainly Trace Elliot and Eden amps, I recently decided to try an Ampeg I can carry. I bought an SVT-3 Pro. Here's the thing, it doesn't seem to have much volume at moderate controls settings. I've read that they're "underpowered" but with the EQ disengaged, Bass/Mid/Treble flat (all the way anticlockwise - there's no pot detent so I'm guessing this is 'flat', not 'cut'), Input gain and Master at 12 o'clock, the volume into a Hartke 8Ohm HL210, is less than bedroom-sufficient! Inputs sockets (incl. '74 Jazz bass) and leads all checked & good quality / low capacitance / short length. All Hi/Low/Mute switches disengaged of course. I'd have thought it'd at least be loud at these settings. Can anyone suggest what might be going on? Underpowered or not, 450W (or 275W at 8 Ohms) ought to give reasonable volume with gain & master settings at midday I'd have thought. With a 280W (200W into 8 Ohms) Trace Elliot, I'm used to barely being able to get past 9 o'clock before it's deafening. With the Ampeg at midday it should at least be..."a bit loud"...no? The sound is firm, steady & clean so it's not the tubes I don't think (do correct me). Is it that the SVT-3 Pro characteristically develops it's volume 'late' when the pots are way past 12noon? I'd have though it'd be loud and overdriving by then, rather than just "loudish". To obtain anything approaching usable in a group rehearsal situation, I need both Input gain and Master to be at 3 o'clock (and the band's not 'loud' nor playing particularly heavy music), even going into 4 Ohms. Anyone with extensive SVT-3 Pro experience have any tips or useful comments please? Many thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassmanPaul Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 You're comparing gain structure from two different amp companies. You have to learn how to get the best out of the Ampeg. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 (edited) Ampeg advise to have the Master Volume on full then use Gain for the volume required. Additionally if not using the graphic for tone shaping engage it and boost the slider on the right hand side. Start with Bass/Mid/Treble at midday, fully anticlockwise is cutting them. Edited June 13, 2023 by Lozz196 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undertone Posted June 13, 2023 Author Share Posted June 13, 2023 Didn't know about the Master - thanks. Will try all the above first. Should have read the manual... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undertone Posted June 13, 2023 Author Share Posted June 13, 2023 Where did you hear Ampeg advises the Master to be on full please? I don't see it in the manual. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 It’s on the suggested settings, on all of them the Master is set on full. It seems a strange way to use it but when I had one I did it this way and never had any problems with volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undertone Posted June 13, 2023 Author Share Posted June 13, 2023 Thanks. It seems contrary to the text of the manual where they say use the Master for volume attenuation but I see the suggesting settings, so thanks for the guidance - I see the same on TaslkBass. There I also see that it's possible it might need rebiasing (I bought used) although the unit is only 3 years old. Setting the Bass/Mid/Trebble to 12 noon and the Valve drive fully clockwise has had some effect but I'm still surprised at the lack of volume at 'normal' gain/master levels. Where the Trace has loads of headroom, it seems the Ampeg does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undertone Posted June 13, 2023 Author Share Posted June 13, 2023 Thanks. It seems contrary to the text of the manual where they say use the Master for volume attenuation but I do see the suggesting settings - I see the same on TaslkBass. There I also see that it's possible it might need rebiasing (I bought used) although the unit is only 3 years old. Setting the Bass/Mid/Trebble to 12 noon and the Valve drive fully clockwise has had some effect but I'm still surprised at the lack of volume at 'normal' gain/master levels. Where the Trace has loads of headroom, it seems the Ampeg does not. Acknowledging BassmanPaul's comment - yes I guess so, I'm used to Trace type gain staging, optimising the preamp before adjusting power section. Reading online it seems this is not the case with Ampeg. But nowhere in Ampeg's doucmentaiton does it really say that - would have been kinda useful (to me). Thanks for the guidance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 The SVT3-PRO user manual says turn the Master up full and balance the volume on the Gain. I could only get the Master to 3 o'clock before the "noise" became intrusive. All the buttons were in the off position. Through Mesa Boogie 210EV and 115EV cabs it could go very loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undertone Posted June 13, 2023 Author Share Posted June 13, 2023 Where in the manual does it say that (other than pictures of some suggested settings)? I see 12. Master "Use to control the overall output level.Use it wisely and turn it down when making connections or trying something new." That doesn't sound like 'keep it maxed out'. For Gain, I see 5. Gain - "This varies the amount of signal driving the preamplifier. If a small clockwise rotation from minimum leads to overloading and the Peak LED [4] illuminating, try engaging the –15 dB Pad.[3] This will provide more usable range with the Gain control." I absolutely understand I need to learn the new product. That's fine and what I'm trying to do. Thanks all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassAdder60 Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 I had one and found it under powered for it’s claimed wattage. It needs the graphic EQ master raised ( boosted ) to get more from it but many have said it’s not a very loud amp. Shame as it’s a gorgeous sounding amp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undertone Posted June 14, 2023 Author Share Posted June 14, 2023 Yeah - I really like the tone. Odd that a prestigious name like Ampeg produces and underpowered amp for 450W. I looked at the SVT-6 but it's 750W at even 8 Ohms, which is overkill for some stuff I do (or is it?...) and 6kg heavier. Doesn't seem right that a quality name amp should require the EQ boosted to produce adequate volume... Back to learning what I can get out of it - but I'm fighting the feeling that it's eventually going to have to be sold.. Very disappointing as I was excited by the prospect of trying Ampeg and its several tubes after so many years... But as others have said, I'll put the effort it for a while & see how it goes. Ta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pow_22 Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 As mentioned, engage the EQ even if its left flat but raise the far right hand slider. Theres hidden volume in there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undertone Posted June 14, 2023 Author Share Posted June 14, 2023 Yep. Thanks. Aside from that, driving the volume hard is going to make the sound more overdriven I presume (even with Valve knob fully clockwise)? I'm after a cleaner rather than dirtier sound (but with a little girth). Do we feel the SVT-3 Pro does that? Perhaps this amp was a wrong choice on my part? I do have a SVP-CL pre-amp too, perhaps I should use that, routed to the power section of the SVT-3 Pro? But I think the drive in the SVT-3 comes from the power section anyway, no? Have patience with the Ampeg newbie... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undertone Posted June 14, 2023 Author Share Posted June 14, 2023 By the way, anyone know a good bass amp tech in London who really knows what they're doing please (with an SVT-3 Pro)? (In case the biasing needs adjustment in future) Otherwise it's off to Milton Keynes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thodrik Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 My nephew has one. I found that the best sounds involved having the gain pretty high and completely ignoring the input gain peak light. It is a strange amp in that the 'tube gain' actually works in a way where the dirtier, looser voicing is on the lowest settings and a faster, more traditionally solid state sound occurs with the gain turned up. For a cleaner sound run the master on full and use the gain as the volume knob. It is a pretty old design with a number of quirks, but there is great tone in there. It is just isn't a 'everything at 12 o'clock with master volume run low' amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pow_22 Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Undertone said: Yep. Thanks. Aside from that, driving the volume hard is going to make the sound more overdriven I presume (even with Valve knob fully clockwise)? I'm after a cleaner rather than dirtier sound (but with a little girth). Do we feel the SVT-3 Pro does that? Perhaps this amp was a wrong choice on my part? I do have a SVP-CL pre-amp too, perhaps I should use that, routed to the power section of the SVT-3 Pro? But I think the drive in the SVT-3 comes from the power section anyway, no? Have patience with the Ampeg newbie... The 'Valve' knob is actually counter intuitive. In its most anti clockwise position its starves the plate and makes it sound more 'loose/slow' and valve like. Fully clockwise it actually tightens things up. For cleaner i would definately max the master and use gain to set 'volume'. The dirt/grit comes mainly from the pre Edited June 14, 2023 by Pow_22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGBrown Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 I toured with one of these for years and never lacked volume (with 2 x Peavey 410TX). I never had the tone controls fully counter clockwise. My recollection is that doing so did result in much less overall volume. Fully agree on the input gain - had it flashing red but the sound was sill clean, so it's another case of using your ears rather than eyes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassAdder60 Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 Hi the SVT3 Pro isn’t a full valve power amp, the tubes are preamp only so no biasing needed As folk have said boosting the graphic EQ slider up boosts the output volume and should add drive ( the drive comes from the input gain etc ) You should get decent clean sound out of it and even a underpowered 450w should be very loud for gigging needs My small TE Elf (200w) can be very loud when pushed so the SVT is more than capable but the secret is the EQ slider vol boost .. That increases output volume by a huge amount if I recall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undertone Posted June 14, 2023 Author Share Posted June 14, 2023 OK. Thanks folks. I guess it must be in there somewhere and I'll have to work more on finding it. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 I had one of these and you definitely need to turn up all the stages to get the full beans out of it. I re-biased mine and ended up fitting a multi-turn trimmer to achieve this reliably - see this thread (sorry, pics are long gone). Be aware that if you blithely twiddle the bias trim pot you risk sending the output transistors into thermal runaway, which will burn them up before you even realise something is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undertone Posted June 14, 2023 Author Share Posted June 14, 2023 I took the afternoon off work, went home and played around with the amp given all the above information. It all works as exactly as you describe - phew - damn thing made a fool out of me. Anyway, all good now - thanks so much all. Despite being a Trace devotee for so long, I really like the tone of this amp - and now I can keep it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 22 hours ago, Lozz196 said: Ampeg advise to have the Master Volume on full then use Gain for the volume required. Is that in the manual? That is certainly not how I have ever used an Ampeg or similar amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 23 hours ago, Undertone said: Bass/Mid/Treble flat (all the way anticlockwise - That's not flat, it's full cut. Nor would you want the EQ flat, anymore than you'd want flat beer. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undertone Posted June 14, 2023 Author Share Posted June 14, 2023 Flat beer??? Certainly not, master! Yeah, flat's just a starting point. And yes, I had it at cut, expecting a centre detent to indicate flat (perhaps I'm spoilt...) Re manual - it doesn't say it in the manual but it's in the suggested settings pictures... Was odd for me too as I'm used to gain stage optimising the pre-amp first, then moving to the power amp (master (different master...)). When you say that's not how you use it, where do you have Gain and Master for live performance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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