Low sounds pants compared to the rest. Any advice?

[sirmuppet]

So like the title suggests I'm having issues with a bass of mine. Had it since new. The low E just doesn't sound like the rest. By that I mean I play it and the others have thump and definition. The E sounds like it has no bass and mids. Sounds quieter. Sounded like that when I got it new. Changed the strings and gave it a set up. Remains the same. Have even changed the pickup. Also tried it through 2 different amps. still the same. Even setting it up and playing with the pickup height hasn't changed anything. 

 

Any suggestions for thing sto try beyond this? I've had a look online and it pretty much yeilds the same results as above for what to try. 

 

Thanks.

[Bigguy2017]

Hmmm... weird one...

You've tried all the obvious so it must be something else.

 

Things to try;

You could have a weak pickup magnet on the E string (you've changed the pickup so probably not this) - tap all the pole pieces with a (steel) allen key - do they all make a similar bang and are they all similarly 'sticky'?

 

Nut. Have a good look at the nut slot for the E string - is the slot cut right and is there a tiny clearance (try a sheet of paper) over the first fret when string is fretted at fret 3? Also check the E bridge saddle.

 

Room. Are all your listening test being done in the position in the same room? Room dimension s can really effect the low end - my living room has a big peak around A which sounds much louder than it really is.

 

Try with another cable, direct to the amp - there can be odd effects if the cable's conductive plastic layer is not stripped back correctly. (clutching at straws here).

 

What bass, what pickup, what strings? It is possible to wire a PBass or stacked jazz pickup out of phase which makes for a weird response.

[sirmuppet]

2 hours ago, Bigguy2017 said:

Hmmm... weird one...

You've tried all the obvious so it must be something else.

 

Things to try;

You could have a weak pickup magnet on the E string (you've changed the pickup so probably not this) - tap all the pole pieces with a (steel) allen key - do they all make a similar bang and are they all similarly 'sticky'?

 

Nut. Have a good look at the nut slot for the E string - is the slot cut right and is there a tiny clearance (try a sheet of paper) over the first fret when string is fretted at fret 3? Also check the E bridge saddle.

 

Room. Are all your listening test being done in the position in the same room? Room dimension s can really effect the low end - my living room has a big peak around A which sounds much louder than it really is.

 

Try with another cable, direct to the amp - there can be odd effects if the cable's conductive plastic layer is not stripped back correctly. (clutching at straws here).

 

What bass, what pickup, what strings? It is possible to wire a PBass or stacked jazz pickup out of phase which makes for a weird response.

 

Thanks man. 

 

I'll check the the poles on the pickups. Never thought it might be that. 

 

Will also give the nut a check. I didn't notice anything odd when I changed the strings. 

 

You mentioned checking the E bridge saddle. What should I be looking for there?

 

For the room it was 2 different gigs and a couple of rehearsals. Sounded the same in eeach. 

 

I have been using the same cable so will give another a try. 

 

It's a Fender Jaguar with a Pau Ferro fretboard, single seymour duncan SPB-3, only has a volume (no tone control), string through body and strung with Ernie Ball regular slinkys. 

 

Thanks again 🙂

[wateroftyne]

If you stick your ear on the top horn and play it acoustically, does it sound mushy compared to the others?

 

If it does, maybe put the electronics investigation on the back-burner and focus on set-up issues (or the possibility it might just be 'one of those' basses).

 

Hope you get it sorted, tho.

[sirmuppet]

1 minute ago, wateroftyne said:

If you stick your ear on the top horn and play it acoustically, does it sound mushy compared to the others?

 

If it does, maybe put the electronics investigation on the back-burner and focus on set-up issues (or the possibility it might just be 'one of those' basses).

 

Hope you get it sorted, tho.

Cheers for that I'll give that a check too. Won't get time until the weekend but just wanted to get a list of things to try for then. 

[sirmuppet]

So I've fretted at the third and there is a gap under the first fret. A sheet of paper passes through without issue and you can visually see the gap. I've tested the poles on the pickup and each pole produces the same amount of volume when tapped with an Allen key. I've looked at the bridge and don't see any issues but again not sure what I've be looking for specifically but again I don't see any wonky saddles, loose grub screws or issues with how the string sits. Pictures can be taken if it can help.

[snorkie635]

Take the ball-end of your thumb and with the bass tuned to pitch, press hard on the E string just the fretboard side of the saddle. Tune the E to pitch again. Sometimes an E string needs to have that slight 'kink' in it to sound properly. Hope this helps you.

[sirmuppet]

3 hours ago, snorkie635 said:

Take the ball-end of your thumb and with the bass tuned to pitch, press hard on the E string just the fretboard side of the saddle. Tune the E to pitch again. Sometimes an E string needs to have that slight 'kink' in it to sound properly. Hope this helps you.

Thanks. Have tried that already. I'm at a loss. I took it in to be seen by a tech. They had a quick play and said there was a marginal difference but they were playing at practice level with fingers. I tend to play at gig level with a pick which might add to the issue. Anyway I should have it back next weekend and hopefully with an answer. 

[snorkie635]

1 hour ago, sirmuppet said:

Thanks. Have tried that already. I'm at a loss. I took it in to be seen by a tech. They had a quick play and said there was a marginal difference but they were playing at practice level with fingers. I tend to play at gig level with a pick which might add to the issue. Anyway I should have it back next weekend and hopefully with an answer. 

Very best of luck. These things are soooooo frustrating!

[sirmuppet]

3 hours ago, snorkie635 said:

Very best of luck. These things are soooooo frustrating!

Tell me about it, lol. I know some basses have a note or two that just don't project as much as the rest. This seems like everything from the G on the E string down to the E. Hopefully they find something. 

[Downunderwonder]

Not clear if it's open E or all the notes up the E string.

[sirmuppet]

19 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

Not clear if it's open E or all the notes up the E string.

All notes on the E string. The lower the note the less presence it seems to have.

[Phil Starr]

This is weird, isn't it? 

 

With my physics teacher hat on that sounds like you are getting some high pass filtering. Certainly something moving at either end of the string would do that, the seating at bridge or nut, but you seem to have investigated that thoroughly. Two other possibilities are resonances in the structure of the bass where something is moving out of phase with the strings absorbing energy but over limited frequencies. The other is something electrical introducing some stray capacitance or inductance into the circuit. That in turn could be affected by changes in the impedance of your amp and leads. You've tried several amps so it's unlikely they would all have the same input impedance unless you've found one or two amps to be a lot less problematic than the others. Is this an active or passive bass? Have you tried a range of guitar leads, they can introduce capacitance and change the response of the bass, most modern cables have a carbon sheath inside which stops electrical crackling but they shouldn't be earthed and if this happens accidentally can make the bass sound really thin.

 

None of this sounds very likely to me unless this is an active bass, in which case I'd try a new battery first. If it were mine I'd temporarily disconnect anything wired to the pickup and take an output direct from the PUP to an amp, but that would assume you are happy to use a soldering iron so you can put everything back. 

[sirmuppet]

2 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

This is weird, isn't it? 

 

With my physics teacher hat on that sounds like you are getting some high pass filtering. Certainly something moving at either end of the string would do that, the seating at bridge or nut, but you seem to have investigated that thoroughly. Two other possibilities are resonances in the structure of the bass where something is moving out of phase with the strings absorbing energy but over limited frequencies. The other is something electrical introducing some stray capacitance or inductance into the circuit. That in turn could be affected by changes in the impedance of your amp and leads. You've tried several amps so it's unlikely they would all have the same input impedance unless you've found one or two amps to be a lot less problematic than the others. Is this an active or passive bass? Have you tried a range of guitar leads, they can introduce capacitance and change the response of the bass, most modern cables have a carbon sheath inside which stops electrical crackling but they shouldn't be earthed and if this happens accidentally can make the bass sound really thin.

 

None of this sounds very likely to me unless this is an active bass, in which case I'd try a new battery first. If it were mine I'd temporarily disconnect anything wired to the pickup and take an output direct from the PUP to an amp, but that would assume you are happy to use a soldering iron so you can put everything back. 

It's a passive bass. Though one thing I've haven't tried now that you mention resonant frequencies is tightening up the screws on the bass. Once I get it back I'll slacken the strings then tighten up the neck and bridge screws in case anything is loose and causing it. 

 

I have tried 2 cables, one being an Ernie Ball and the other being Orange. Not running any effects and stright into the amp. 

[Phil Starr]

OK doesn't sound like I've managed to move you forwards then. At this point it feels like you are going mad  

 

Is it a single pickup bass? How close is the PUP to the bridge? How close are they to the strings? Where do you pick the strings? I'm sure you've covered all these things but worth asking?

 

The only other thing I have to offer is that although the odds of any one new part being faulty is low there is still the one in a thousand chance that you could be the unlucky one in a thousand person to buy two faulty versions. The number of times I've convinced myself a lead is working and stripped down an amp only to find the two leads I was using were both faulty.......

 

Good Luck, there will be a rational explanation I'm sure

 

 

[sirmuppet]

On 03/04/2023 at 11:44, Phil Starr said:

OK doesn't sound like I've managed to move you forwards then. At this point it feels like you are going mad  

 

Is it a single pickup bass? How close is the PUP to the bridge? How close are they to the strings? Where do you pick the strings? I'm sure you've covered all these things but worth asking?

 

The only other thing I have to offer is that although the odds of any one new part being faulty is low there is still the one in a thousand chance that you could be the unlucky one in a thousand person to buy two faulty versions. The number of times I've convinced myself a lead is working and stripped down an amp only to find the two leads I was using were both faulty.......

 

Good Luck, there will be a rational explanation I'm sure

 

 

 

Just a single P-bass pickup in the regular position. I play with a pick, pretty much over the pickup or sometime slightly behind it. 

 

I do have a third cable kicking around somewhere I'll dig out and try when I get it back. 

 

Yeah, feels like I am going a little mad. It's an SPB3 pickup which shouldn't have any issue in the omph department! lol. 

[Phil Starr]

I've pretty much run out of suggestions. Hope you find out what it is. 

[sirmuppet]

16 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

I've pretty much run out of suggestions. Hope you find out what it is. 

No worries and cheers for the help. I should get the bass back this weekend. I'll keep you and everyone posted about what the results are. 

[sirmuppet]

For anyone wanting pics of the areas mentioned I've attached some photos.

 

I'm aware a Jammie Dodger is not a standard unit of measurement but I didn't have a ruler to hand 😁. Also that's it with it fretted on the last fret. I've had it much closer too and still the same result. 

 

Pic with the gap between the fret and string is with me holding it on the 3rd fret. 

 

 

[Reggaebass]

Measuring your string height with a Jammie Dodger sounds good to me 😁👍

[snorkie635]

42 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

Measuring your string height with a Jammie Dodger sounds good to me 😁👍

Jammin'? 😁

[bloke_zero]

Can't see any issues from the pictures.

 

I wonder if it's worth taking it back to the basics? Unstring, take the neck off, examine the pocket, check the bridge, check the nut, replace the neck - check the tightness of the neck bolts. See if the problem is still there. Seems like if the problem isn't electrical then it must be physical?

[sirmuppet]

11 minutes ago, bloke_zero said:

Can't see any issues from the pictures.

 

I wonder if it's worth taking it back to the basics? Unstring, take the neck off, examine the pocket, check the bridge, check the nut, replace the neck - check the tightness of the neck bolts. See if the problem is still there. Seems like if the problem isn't electrical then it must be physical?

That's srt of the next step. When I get it back I'm going to tigheten everything but not a bad shout about removing and checking everything. I'll add that to the list. Cheers. 

[A.G.E.N.T.E.]

Strings are new but there might be a possibility that the string core slipped during the installation causing a dead string. That's why some manufactures suggest crimp before cut. 

[sirmuppet]

1 hour ago, A.G.E.N.T.E. said:

Strings are new but there might be a possibility that the string core slipped during the installation causing a dead string. That's why some manufactures suggest crimp before cut. 

I do exactly that for that reason. Think I first saw it on Scotts Bass Lessons. 

 

I think I may hopefully have it solved (At least I do acoustically). Will know tonight as have rehearsal. Will post back the results.