SamIAm Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 (edited) Phoenix is going to be a 5 string, fretless, headless, shortscale self build bass. She will be a celebration of life after I survived a fire in my flat. Design Goals Not look too out of place in a Ukulele band (Hence short scale and with a general ukulele look to her) Lightweight (I've a bad back) Affordable as the fire has left me with a lot of expenses; I need to take as frugal an approach as I can, without compromising Phoenix from a playability or sound perspective. So far Wood - A chap at my makerspace has offered me some Sweet Chestnut and I'm exploring this as an option, it would likely require a thru neck with wings approach due to the size available. I'm also considering if I can afford a replacement block of Maple. Tuners - After building my own for Twiggy, I've decided to 'go pro' this time and have ordered a set from @Andre_Passini of NovaGuitarParts; these are B Stock (Slight cosmetic blemishes) to reduce the cost. They should arrive by the end of Sept. Strings - I intend on using Rotosound tru bass tape wounds, I had a set on Twiggy and they looked, felt and sounded fantastic! Pickup - I had an EMG MMCS on Twiggy and loved it! I hope to use an EMG MM5TW or 40TWX for Phoenix, the double coil will give me some sonic options. Thing is they are proving almost impossible to source! Neck - Fretless. Headless. Zero Nut. With Twiggy I basically free formed the profile, and ended up with a shape that felt really great! Some time later I stumbled across the .strandberg* brand and realised that I had almost formed an Endurneck type profile; this time I will do so mindfully (With some tweaks), leaving enough thickness to accomodate the truss rod and twin 4x4mm carbon rods I intend to install using a rear groove with skunk stripe approach; the neck is to be a one piece. Body - Shape to be decided. I love the shape of the .strandberg, with their double scallop in the bottom edge for comfortable knee placement ... but it may be a bit too 'unique' to blend in with the Ukes in the band. More to come... S'manth x Edited September 23, 2022 by Smanth Tweaks 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si600 Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 Shouldn't it be made from flamed or roasted maple? I'll get me coat.... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard R Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 Following. It will, of course, be fab. 👍 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 If you want to save a few Bob on the tapewounds contact Dawn at Status basses to see what she has in short scale. IIRC they were under £20 for the set. Alternatively think about these: https://www.thomann.de/gb/warwick_bass_string_set_040_.100.htm?glp=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwsrWZBhC4ARIsAGGUJurjJNjf06hgyTp-YXbLQzx4joPFPW2T8fNuLD47AsNXoa0x95cjdMIaAurOEALw_wcB I have these on a couple of basses...Great quality. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alittlebitrobot Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 Wow, I too am planning a fretless, 5 string, short scale, somewhat headless, strung with tapewounds build. I want to go E-C so I bought a 4 string set of d'addario short scale tapes and then found a site selling individual strings so I was able to buy a high C. The fun of making guitars is that you can make things that you can't find for sale anywhere else, but it does mean that sourcing parts at the beginning can be an absolute nuisance 😁 Good luck with the build! Watching with interest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamIAm Posted September 26, 2022 Author Share Posted September 26, 2022 (edited) Some developments today. My makerspace colleague informed me that he believes he has a piece of Sweet Chestnut suitable for Phoenix; hopefully seeing it on Wed or Thur. I had been looking for a pup, my first choic was an EMG MM5TW ... but hens teeth are easier to find! I did locate a pair of EMG 40TWXs here on BC and was invensigating getting those ... and then I discovered that Thomann had the EMG MMTW in stock! They are a 4 string pup, but on Twiggy I used an EMG MMCS (Another 4 string pup) with great results. She was setup with a 16mm string spacing at the pup and given the scale length of 30 inches this actually worked very well for me. So ... I ordered one! With paypal I can spread the cost over 3 months (Cash flow is a challenge at present). So ... Wood - Hopefully sorted. Tuners - Arriving in the next week or so. Pickup - Hopefully here also in a week or so. I need to get a truss rod and a couple of carbon fibre stiffening rods ... but I'm almost at the point where I cn start the physical work on Phoenix! Very excited! S'manth x Edited September 26, 2022 by Smanth 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamIAm Posted September 28, 2022 Author Share Posted September 28, 2022 A delightful development! After a phone call to the luthier who supplied the original block of maple for my second bass (Which was turned to ash by the fire) it seems that he is going to give me a replacement block at no cost! (I was stunned!). I am hopefully going to pick it up tomorrow (Thursday) and it will mean that I can start the physical build of Phoenix! (I'd best start drawing up the design plan!) People are so wonderfully kind! S'manth x 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamIAm Posted September 29, 2022 Author Share Posted September 29, 2022 I drove out to Heathfield today (It's about midway between Royal Tunbridge Wells and Eastbourne) to visit https://luthierssupplies.co.uk/, it is an aladdin's cave of beautiful wood (and other luthier related stuff) run by David Dyke, the atmosphere is full of the most lovely aromas full of promise of things to come. I'd visited once before, on the 8th of August to collect materials that were intended to be the basis of Flo, my second bass build. Pictured below is Twiggy (My first bass build) and the block of maple for Flo as well as the truss rod, carbon fibre support rods and wood to form the skunk stripes. Just 24h later it looked like this. Today, in an act of amazing kindness and generosity, I was given (at no cost) replacements for many of the bass build bits I lost in the fire. A lovely block of Idigbo (West African Hardwood), truss rod, two carbon fibre shafts and some strips of wood for the skunk stripes. (S'manth pinches herself to make sure she is not dreaming) S'manth x 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 For cynical b'stards like me, it's good to see that there are still good people in the world. Hope that the build goes well...🙏 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamIAm Posted October 1, 2022 Author Share Posted October 1, 2022 (edited) I continue to be blown away by the kindness of folks! (And @TheGreek, you claim to be cynical but I appreciate your PM post fire, reaching out to me to ask how you could help!) A kind BCer has sent me a pair of Bartolini Quad Coil pups for Phoenix! This means that I will be able to return the EMG pup I ordered from Thomann (I love their money back policy) as soon as it arrives. I gather the Barts have a sensing width of 88mm so I can go for a slightly wider string spacing (17mm I think will do nicely) and having two of them, with the quad coil switching ... I'll have sonic possibilities I never dreamed of! A question for those of you who know ... I gather the Barts are passive. What are the pros/cons of having an on bass preamp vs an external one? S'manth x Edited October 1, 2022 by Smanth 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted October 1, 2022 Share Posted October 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Smanth said: A question for those of you who know ... I gather the Barts are passive. What are the pros/cons of having an on bass preamp vs an external one? Pros of onboard: To quote an old motoring cliche, the controls fall easily to hand with an onboard preamp. There should be less of an issue with stray noise (although shielded cables keep that down anyway. Pros of outboard: if you don't like it, you don't have to start dismantling things to change it. You can always have both, of course. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamIAm Posted October 4, 2022 Author Share Posted October 4, 2022 (edited) I let out a squeal of delight and did a little dance today! These beauties arrived, donated by the very kind @Si600 (Thank you so much!) The tuners have traveled from Brazil, via Memphis and are now "Operationally Delayed" at Charles De Gauelle ... hopefully not too much longer and I'll have all the bits I need S'manth x Edited October 4, 2022 by Smanth 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamIAm Posted October 5, 2022 Author Share Posted October 5, 2022 Just awaiting tuners and strings and then ... build time! This was the photo of my previous set of bits for a bass build along with Twiggy 24h later it was ash! I may be tempting fate, but I choose to believe lightning (Or more specifically an exploding Lithium battery inferno) is unlikely to strike twice 🤞 I have to say that I do love the look of the Idigbo that Phoenix will be made from. S'manth x 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamIAm Posted October 6, 2022 Author Share Posted October 6, 2022 Can't sleep ... so naturally I'm thinking about the design of Phoenix! 🤣 I'm specifically pondering the fingerboard and its relationship to the face plane of the body. Phoenix is a one piece build. With Twiggy, I had a totally flat setup, there was no step from fingerboard to her body (Well, her sorta body!) I could do this with Phoenix, but I'm also musing about recessing her boday face to give a more "traditional" step down from fingerboard to body. Please excuse my crude drawing (My CAD is not up and running just yet!) I'd really appreciate your experience/views about the pros/cons of one approach versus the other. Some factors that might affect this are: She is fretless/headless I plan a zero fret rather than a nut I would really like to install a slap bass "thingie" (Bar/Plate/???) Also, Twiggy had a totally flat fingerboard and this seemed OK, is it worth considering a mild radius for Phoenix? I'll be using a CNC to shape this so it can be quite accurate, but the Bartolini pups I've been gifted are flat and seem to have no individual string height adjustment. Looking forward to the collective wisdom of the BC family to help guide me! S'manth x (Sleepless in Brighton!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamIAm Posted October 6, 2022 Author Share Posted October 6, 2022 I guess I’d better crack on with the detailed design now! 🥳 S’manth x 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 My Psilos bass has a fretboard level with the body. As a result it's more difficult to get that traditional slap tone as the strings don't hit the fretboard in the same way as a stepped neck. We're not too far apart if you want a closer look. I'll see what the photos show. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 Hope this helps 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si600 Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 Aah yes, Psillyos. How to hide everything except the strings in a bass the shape of Snoopys nose 😉 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 If you really want to play slap, for ease of popping, you'd need to have room to get your finger under the strings. Wilkes put slap plates in his fretless basses, like this: IIRC he also put a piezo mic under the end of the neck to pick up the percussive sound. All wasted on me when I had a Wilkes as I didn't (and don't) play slap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulThePlug Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 (edited) Checkout some pics of Ibanez EDA and Afirma series... Maube a halfway house... I would guess if the body / neck is one piece or thru neck... then.. maybe a raised fretboard for slap... rather than the full amout of a bit of neck and fretboard of a bolt on neck. A top mounted fretboard may help to radius, flatish (my Acoustic Bass is about 400mm) and if you need to access / replace etc. and a top with a more recessed bass side and expossed lower with a step ala EDA for the Pop. Edited October 23, 2022 by PaulThePlug 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamIAm Posted October 23, 2022 Author Share Posted October 23, 2022 On 07/10/2022 at 00:35, tauzero said: If you really want to play slap, for ease of popping, you'd need to have room to get your finger under the strings. Wilkes put slap plates in his fretless basses, like this: IIRC he also put a piezo mic under the end of the neck to pick up the percussive sound. All wasted on me when I had a Wilkes as I didn't (and don't) play slap. Piezo under the neck, that never would have occurred to me and will solve the challenges I've been facing in trying to figure out where to put them! S'manth xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamIAm Posted October 23, 2022 Author Share Posted October 23, 2022 1 hour ago, PaulThePlug said: Checkout some pics of Ibanez EDA and Afirma series... Maube a halfway house... I would guess if the body / neck is one piece or thru neck... then.. maybe a raised fretboard for slap... rather than the full amout of a bit of neck and fretboard of a bolt on neck. A top mounted fretboard may help to radius, flatish (my Acoustic Bass is about 400mm) and if you need to access / replace etc. and a top with a more recessed bass side and expossed lower with a step ala EDA for the Pop. My initial idea was a single bit of wood for all of Phoenix. I had considered recessing the "body" section to effectively raise the fingerboard. I now wonder if I should just bite the bullet and add a seperate fingerboard, it could look amazing and would make my truss/carbonfibre rod supports easier to install .... hmmmm, will need to ponder!! S'manth x 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si600 Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 Nope, it should all be made out of one piece of wood, nut, strap buttons, frets, everything. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) On 23/10/2022 at 12:13, Smanth said: Piezo under the neck, that never would have occurred to me and will solve the challenges I've been facing in trying to figure out where to put them! S'manth xx It was only to pick up the percussive sound, if you want string sound you need to put piezos somewhere on or under the bridge. You can get piezo bridge saddles (probably not for the tuners you're getting, though) or put a piezo strip between the mobile bits of the tuners and the bit that's fixed to the body. Looking again at the tuners, that would be a piezo strip between the height adjusters and the bridge base. Just search for "piezo pickup acoustic" to see the sort of thing I mean. However, I think it would be a bit tricky and probably sound shyte as well. Edited October 28, 2022 by tauzero A bit more detail 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamIAm Posted January 16, 2023 Author Share Posted January 16, 2023 So ... a long time since my last update. A flare up of a back injury has made visiting/standing at the shared workspace I'm a member of difficult; coupled with my difficulty in getting a CAD system up and running again has led to a prolonged stall in moving forward with Phoenix, but I'm hoping to get active again in the next few weeks. It is possible even that the big CNC at the makerspace will be operational soon which will make the build easier. S'manth x 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.