dannybuoy Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Can you show us what the frequency reposonse of the Big One is like compared to the Compact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 [quote name='dannybuoy' post='322777' date='Nov 5 2008, 04:34 PM']Can you show us what the frequency reposonse of the Big One is like compared to the Compact?[/quote] This is the design plot of on-axis response: As you move off-axis The Compact should start dropping off from about 1kHz, whilst the 8kHz spike in The Big One's response vanishes and the response smoothes out and then droops gradually in the highs. Note that these plots were generated from a combination of thiele/small modelling, manufacturers' measured plots and passive crossover modelling, they're not measured plots. Am fighting with some RTA software right now so expect some measured plots in the near future. Don't compare these plots to the silly fictional specs most manufacturer's quote! Have a look at the measured plots that Bass Gear Magazine published in its inaugural issue to give yourself a feel for where reality lies. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Done some measurement of the cabs today. This is the plot for The Compact, pretty much on-axis. Although it was done with a proper test mic, good soundcard and RTA software I didn't have time to voltage reference it so I had to correct the dB SPL scale to the calculated plot. Should be pretty damn accurate though. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Hi Alex! Do you have the plots for any other commercially available cabs which could be classed as 'competitors'? It would be nice to compare. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='362248' date='Dec 23 2008, 07:06 PM']Do you have the plots for any other commercially available cabs which could be classed as 'competitors'? It would be nice to compare.[/quote] It would indeed! If you bring them to me I'll measure them. One thing I will say is that if you think that plot looks bumpy you will die when you see how the average cab will perform with an underbraced and underdamped cabinet and cheaper less linear speaker. One thing I'd like to do in the future is some high power tests that show what happens when you put hundreds of watts into a cab - that's when the lack of Xmax and bracing in many cabs will become obvious, as will port non-linearity due to undersized ports. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey R Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 (edited) Hi Alex, you could also put up a comparison table on your site, so we can easily compare size, weight, SPL and price from the one page? I think that could be very handy. It would also be good to show which models can stack together, like can the Compact and Baby Sub be used together, etc. Edited March 31, 2009 by Mikey R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 (edited) Good idea, I shall do that. In the meantime: [code]Compact 25.5" high x 19.5" wide x 13.5" deep / 32lbs / 100dB / F3=63Hz F6=51Hz / £400 Big One 29.5" high x 21" wide x 16" deep / 47lbs / 99dB / F3=47Hz F6=41Hz / £625 Vintage 38" high x 24" wide x 13.5" deep / ~52lbs / 103dB / F3=59Hz F6=51Hz / £650 Midget 19.5" high x 15" wide x 13.5" deep / ~25lbs / 99dB / F3=82Hz F6=58Hz / £375 Big Baby 25.5" high x 19.5" wide x 13.5" deep / ~34lbs / 95dB / F3=46Hz F6=40Hz / £575[/code] Note that these specs are only suitable for comparing within the Barefaced range - other manufacturers' claims may be a little more impressive on paper... Recommended pairings: Compact x2, Midget x2, Compact+Midget, Big Baby+Baby Sub. Alex Edited April 14, 2009 by alexclaber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnylager Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 (edited) You forgot Big One x2. Muhahahaha. :brow: I've gone deaf just thinking about it. Or is that blind? Or is that for another reason? Edited March 31, 2009 by johnnylager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 [quote name='johnnylager' post='450595' date='Mar 31 2009, 03:26 PM']You forgot Big One x2. Muhahahaha. :brow: I've gone deaf just thinking about it. Or is that blind? Or is that for another reason?[/quote] WHAT?!! Yes, blinding! By the way, the first vintage look model is going out in this batch - a sideways metal-cornered and fabric-grilled Compact to sit underneath a Fender Bassman. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='450591' date='Mar 31 2009, 03:23 PM']- other manufacturers' claims may be a little more impressive on paper...[/quote] No kidding. If it's fiction you're after, speaker manufacturers put Jeffrey Archer to shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='450591' date='Mar 31 2009, 03:23 PM']Good idea, I shall do that. In the meantime: [code]Compact 25.5" high x 19.5" wide x 13.5" deep / 32lbs / 100dB / F3=63Hz F6=51Hz / £400 Big One 29.5" high x 21" wide x 16" deep / 47lbs / 99dB / F3=47Hz F6=41Hz / £625 Vintage 38" high x 24" wide x 13.5" deep / ~52lbs / 103dB / F3=59Hz F6=61Hz / £650 Midget 19.5" high x 15" wide x 13.5" deep / ~25lbs / 99dB / F3=82Hz F6=58Hz / £375 Big Baby 25.5" high x 19.5" wide x 13.5" deep / ~34lbs / 95dB / F3=46Hz F6=40Hz / £575[/code] Note that these specs are only suitable for comparing within the Barefaced range - other manufacturers' claims may be a little more impressive on paper... Recommended pairings: Compact x2, Midget x2, Compact+Midget, Big Baby+Baby Sub. Alex[/quote] No specs for the Baby Sub? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 [quote name='Hamster' post='451280' date='Apr 1 2009, 10:56 AM']No specs for the Baby Sub?[/quote] Big Sub and Baby Sub have the same sensitivity and LF response as the Big One and Big Baby respectively. Knock off a few lbs for the removal of the midrange section. The Baby Sub is a very potent beast for adding serious bottom to a rig but you will need a dual channel amp to use it effectively due to the low sensitivity. The Big Sub can be run in parallel with a mid-sized cab but you'll struggle to drive it to full volume without the other cab totally farting out - however at lower SPL its higher sensitivity means you'lll be able to hear it adding bottom unlike the Big Baby which will be lost unless it's under a very quiet cab (like a 1x10"). However if you have enough power the Baby Sub could actually add useful bottom to many 4x10"s! Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Aha! Another quick and dirty RTA in my garden. Green line is on-axis, purple is 45 deg off-axis, measured in half-space with mic on the ground plane. I do believe we are sorted. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protium Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 [quote]Sensitivity: Similar to many 2x12" cabs Frequency Response: Similar to the classic sealed 8x10" fridge Maximum Output: Similar to a quality 2x12" or 3x10" cabinet[/quote] On the website you have these vague decsriptions where you could do with some proper values IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 [quote name='Protium' post='461514' date='Apr 13 2009, 08:29 PM']On the website you have these vague decsriptions where you could do with some proper values IMO [/quote] There's room for both... I understand the ones that Alex uses at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 [quote name='Protium' post='461514' date='Apr 13 2009, 08:29 PM']On the website you have these vague decsriptions where you could do with some proper values IMO [/quote] What variety of 'proper' values should I put up? I know the Compact is louder and goes deeper than the SWR Goliath Jr: Claimed: 105 dB SPL @ 1W1M (-3dB @ 45Hz and 15KHz) Or the Eden 210XLT: 48hz - 14khz ±2dB; Sensitivity 103dB SPL@1W1M But I couldn't put up such barefaced lies! Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protium Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='461523' date='Apr 13 2009, 08:37 PM']What variety of 'proper' values should I put up? I know the Compact is louder and goes deeper than the SWR Goliath Jr: Claimed: 105 dB SPL @ 1W1M (-3dB @ 45Hz and 15KHz) Or the Eden 210XLT: 48hz - 14khz ±2dB; Sensitivity 103dB SPL@1W1M But I couldn't put up such barefaced lies! Alex[/quote] Trying not to sound like a dick here but - Sensitivity: The sensitivity of the cabinet Frequency Response: The frequency response of the cabinet Maximum Output: The maximum output of the cabinet For me I'm reading the description of the cabinet being the loudest, lowest, lightest, etc etc and then there are no specs put up to back up the statements. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 [quote name='Protium' post='461537' date='Apr 13 2009, 08:58 PM']Trying not to sound like a dick here but - Sensitivity: The sensitivity of the cabinet Frequency Response: The frequency response of the cabinet Maximum Output: The maximum output of the cabinet For me I'm reading the description of the cabinet being the loudest, lowest, lightest, etc etc and then there are no specs put up to back up the statements. IMO [/quote] I think the point is, under what circumstance are you measuring those things? Especially frequency response, that means pretty much nothing unless you have a lot of parameters, a graph as posted previously is probably the best you are going to get, even then you need two as it changes depending on where you are, and what the cab is on, and the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 [quote name='Protium' post='461537' date='Apr 13 2009, 08:58 PM']Trying not to sound like a dick here but - Sensitivity: The sensitivity of the cabinet[/quote] Sensitivity at what frequency? In whole space, half space or quarter space? SWR claim 105dB sensitivity from a cab which cannot be higher than 98dB at the very best. [quote name='Protium' post='461537' date='Apr 13 2009, 08:58 PM']Frequency Response: The frequency response of the cabinet[/quote] Again, what space conditions? To what degree of tolerance -10, -6, -3dB? I've seen a measured plot for a 410XLT which shows that it's response is only +/-2dB within an octave at max yet they claim +/-2dB to higher and lower frequencies than their cab manages even -10dB. [quote name='Protium' post='461537' date='Apr 13 2009, 08:58 PM']Maximum Output: The maximum output of the cabinet[/quote] Peak or continuous? At what frequency? At what distortion level? Theoretical (thermal power handling plus claimed sensitivity) or actual max SPL (BIG difference!) I see EA claim 126dB from their Wizzy 12" - by my rough estimates that's almost 10dB louder than is physically possible from such a design. [quote name='Protium' post='461537' date='Apr 13 2009, 08:58 PM']For me I'm reading the description of the cabinet being the loudest, lowest, lightest, etc etc and then there are no specs put up to back up the statements.[/quote] The Compact certainly doesn't go the lowest but it is as loud as a cab gets for that weight. But if I give you the real specs then you'll compare them to what EA, SWR, AccuGroove, Eden, GB, GK, etc all claim and then go and buy one of their inferior cabs. It's like trying to compete in a car market where Ford and Vauxhall claim the Fiesta and Corsa both have a top speed of 200mph, do 0-60 in 4 seconds and 100 mpg. I refuse to lie but I'm not going to have people go elsewhere because they compare the numbers and can't see through the marketing falsifications. I should point out that I was fooled by this stuff about 10 years ago - I bought a Peavey 12" combo that claimed to achieve 30-16000Hz response from a whizzer cone 12". How I laugh now... And much as I'd like to get some nice measurements and plots to put on the site I don't have a large enough space to take them in, hence there's a fair few extra peaks and dips in the plots I've posted thus far. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protium Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='461588' date='Apr 13 2009, 09:30 PM']The Compact certainly doesn't go the lowest but it is as loud as a cab gets for that weight. But if I give you the real specs then you'll compare them to what EA, SWR, AccuGroove, Eden, GB, GK, etc all claim and then go and buy one of their inferior cabs.[/quote] Suit yourself then, was only a suggestion but obviously hit a nerve! [quote]It's like trying to compete in a car market where Ford and Vauxhall claim the Fiesta and Corsa both have a top speed of 200mph, do 0-60 in 4 seconds and 100 mpg. I refuse to lie but I'm not going to have people go elsewhere because they compare the numbers and can't see through the marketing falsifications.[/quote] Yes, but in the car market they don't say "Our new car will go [i]about[/i] as fast as your average saloon, MPG [i]comparable[/i] to a 3 cylinder diesel" etc, they have their figures available. People may not be able to see through marketing falsifications but they can't see your specs either. This IMO is an easy way to lose potential customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Protium' post='461673' date='Apr 13 2009, 10:44 PM']Suit yourself then, was only a suggestion but obviously hit a nerve! Yes, but in the car market they don't say "Our new car will go [i]about[/i] as fast as your average saloon, MPG [i]comparable[/i] to a 3 cylinder diesel" etc, they have their figures available. People may not be able to see through marketing falsifications but they can't see your specs either. This IMO is an easy way to lose potential customers.[/quote] I posted this a few pages back [code]Compact 25.5" high x 19.5" wide x 13.5" deep / 32lbs / 100dB / F3=63Hz F6=51Hz / £400 Big One 29.5" high x 21" wide x 16" deep / 47lbs / 99dB / F3=47Hz F6=41Hz / £625 Vintage 38" high x 24" wide x 13.5" deep / ~52lbs / 103dB / F3=59Hz F6=51Hz / £650 Midget 19.5" high x 15" wide x 13.5" deep / ~25lbs / 99dB / F3=82Hz F6=58Hz / £375 Big Baby 25.5" high x 19.5" wide x 13.5" deep / ~34lbs / 95dB / F3=46Hz F6=40Hz / £575[/code] That's reality - doesn't seem very impressive compared to everyone else's pie in the sky figures does it? What exactly are you going to do with the specs? Alex Edited April 14, 2009 by alexclaber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 [quote name='Protium' post='461673' date='Apr 13 2009, 10:44 PM']Suit yourself then, was only a suggestion but obviously hit a nerve! Yes, but in the car market they don't say "Our new car will go [i]about[/i] as fast as your average saloon, MPG [i]comparable[/i] to a 3 cylinder diesel" etc, they have their figures available. People may not be able to see through marketing falsifications but they can't see your specs either. This IMO is an easy way to lose potential customers.[/quote] Yes and the figures they all produce have been shown to be rot very often too (esp mpg figures for instance) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 So what the F numbers mean then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='461879' date='Apr 14 2009, 10:55 AM']So what the F numbers mean then?[/quote] F3 is the point where the low frequency response reaches 3dB down. F6 is the same but -6dB from nominal LF sensitivity. SVT 810 is F3 ~58Hz. However because all these drivers have high excursion limited power handling they can accept much more bass boost at high SPL without farting, so even the Midget can produce bigger bottom at higher volume than any conventional (i.e. not Acme) 2x10" - you just have to EQ that extra bottom in. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixel Pirate Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Alex, could you explain how the vintage has a higher frequency for the F6 value as opposed to its F3? Am i missing something??? Cheers [quote]Vintage 38" high x 24" wide x 13.5" deep / ~52lbs / 103dB / F3=59Hz F6=61Hz[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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