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Advice on ambient mic to feed IEMs


foxyFuze
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Hi all,

 

Firstly - if this is in the wrong thread, apologies!

 

Once again I've had a gig where I can hear my DI signal clearly via IEMs, but even with an SM57 at front of stage I could get very little of the other instruments. 

Guitarist has no DI from his amp and the rather old PA I don't think has extra sends I can use; I have said regularly the PA needs upgrading and I believe this is imminent. 

Given limitations of inputs to my IEM Tx and the aforementioned points, I'm trying to find a decent mic for catching all instrumentation.  It doesn't need to be crystal clear quality, just so I can get a feel of the drums, keys etc.  I'm not intending to spends loads but would consider a pricy option if it was worth it.

Any advice on options and placement welcome. I've had a look online but nothing conclusive as yet.

 

Thanks

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I had this problem. I bought a set of two cheap Behringer C2 condenser mics, set them up in a X\Y pattern using the dual holder they came with and mounted this to a short stand, placed mid stage. Works a treat. 

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2 minutes ago, pete.young said:

The @Dood method of using a H4n springs to mind. Another option might be a PZM , there was a brilliant Tandy clone of these which pops up on t'bay from time to time.

Yeah that was my starting point too, but I didn't have a H4n so spending £30 on condenser mics was the lowest cost option for me (given you're only using the H4n for the stereo mic capability), but if you have one, or a similar recorder, I'd definitely give that a go. 

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48 minutes ago, Muppet said:

Yeah that was my starting point too, but I didn't have a H4n so spending £30 on condenser mics was the lowest cost option for me (given you're only using the H4n for the stereo mic capability), but if you have one, or a similar recorder, I'd definitely give that a go. 

It can give you a lot more than just a pair of mikes. I put mine into 4CH mode, mikes for ambient, jack sockets a feed from the desk and a feed from the bass, adjust the levels to sort out your mix and plug IEMs into the headphone socket. But yes, expensive if you don't have one already.

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2 hours ago, pete.young said:

It can give you a lot more than just a pair of mikes. I put mine into 4CH mode, mikes for ambient, jack sockets a feed from the desk and a feed from the bass, adjust the levels to sort out your mix and plug IEMs into the headphone socket. But yes, expensive if you don't have one already.

Yes appreciate that, but that’s a bit of an overengineered solution for the very simple problem at hand!  The OP only needed ambient stage sound. I’m assuming he gets everything else from the desk or his IEM unit of choice….

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The H4n method means you can also place compression / limiting on each of the mic or audio feeds too. Your mix to your ears is also stereo.

 

fwiw I also use two condensers when necessary and a stereo IEM mix is available. Actually, I would rather set up my own external monitoring than have to ever go mono again. Eurgh.

p.s. I’d not recommend anything but decent condensers for ambience. SM57’s response couldn’t deliver the results I’d wish for, but even a pair of SE pencils will be brilliant. SE8 for example, but even a pair of  SE X1S mics.

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15 hours ago, 51m0n said:

Get an old omni reprters mic off ebay for £40

 

 

 

The problem comes when you buy blind and are unsure that the microphone elements can handle the SPL of a live environment. Even some unknown models that suggest being able to handle 120dB have fallen short in tests. I like the idea of at least using a couple of Behringer C2's. Cheap as chips and work. 

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Old omni reporters mics by the likes of audio technica at8004 will definitely  handle the  spl.

 

I use one as a 'core' mic on drum kit somewhere  approximately  equidistant  between snare and kick drum shell. Max SPL is huge, but this mic adds a mass of kit character that I can't get any other way and can kinda dial in a vintage tone too.

 

Works great  for ambience  and super rugged, no phantom  power either.

 

Plus  they are omni, literally  designed  to pick up ambience!

 

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3 hours ago, Dood said:

Granted, that's a useable example. Would be interesting to try those in stereo. There's a few in the 8xxx series I see too. 

Being omnis stereo gets 'interesting', tending to result in a reliance more on time delay than frequency  response compared to a cardioid for instance. 

 

Basically  if they aren't spaced out, you don't get a propee stereo image really.

 

Hence a decca tree relying on spaced cardioids and a central omni.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 03/01/2022 at 20:24, theplumber said:

Zoom H1 or H1N...jobs a good un!

Yes, I’ve used those too. The Q3HD, the Q8, H2n, H4n Pro, they all work well! 

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