thepurpleblob Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 For God's sake.. don't start the Mustang Sally argument again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted April 4, 2009 Author Share Posted April 4, 2009 To be honest OG, I'd be happy to play any of those. I sometimes find songs I don't personally like are more fun if I'm playing them. I'd probably have a slightly less modern set, you know, thrown in a few more golden oldies, but it s a good starting point. Trouble with playing originals is the sets are so short, you usually get 8 songs max and its hardly much of a challenge to remember 8 songs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leschirons Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 (edited) Make sure you've got few crowd pleasers in the sets for the old gits like me. For pubs and clubs, a good starting P.A (economy wise) would be a studiomaster Vision 708. 700 watts powered mixer, built in effects, really robust and cheap on ebay. A pair of 400 - 500 watt passive cabs are next to nothing secondhand. Biggest problem you're going to have is not finding the band members, but finding reliable ones and keeping them once they know you want to rehearse probably once a week. They'll all say "yes, count me" in until the committment starts. Other than that, it'll be great fun (and lucrative if you're sh*t hot) Good luck mate, go for it. Edited April 4, 2009 by leschirons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 [quote name='BigBeefChief' post='454373' date='Apr 4 2009, 09:45 PM']To be honest OG, I'd be happy to play any of those. I sometimes find songs I don't personally like are more fun if I'm playing them. I'd probably have a slightly less modern set, you know, thrown in a few more golden oldies, but it s a good starting point. Trouble with playing originals is the sets are so short, you usually get 8 songs max and its hardly much of a challenge to remember 8 songs![/quote] Yeah you'll find the physical effort to keep the energy going for 2 or 3x 45 is a totally different thing .. order your wide strap now Go and watch your "competitors" and see which tunes get a good reaction and which don't .. Stay sober, take notes. Then you can go back t the pub looking for gigs and say "we're a bit like -Monk Sponky" (Name of band that plays there and fills it) to give your landlord mates a handle for your new band. They can then tell the punters "come and see Big Beef Chief, they are a bit like Monk Spunky" and get the best punters for you. If you are playing 80% floor fillers you can get away with a few left field choices or unknown stuff but you don't want to try it the other way around, not initially anyway. You may not want to play Mustang Sally and Valerie but if you do them to start with it's 6 minutes of easy and well received stuff ... You can drop them later when you have something better to put in that bit of your set list. .. If you can get a first gig from your friends you can build on it. If you work hard on your set list, presentation and show in rehearsal before your first gig you can look as if you've been doing it for years and are pro-minded and you can be entertaining from the off. It sounds less fun than playing gigs but really if you learn your craft in front of strangers they will remember you being crap and messing up, or worse, boring. Whereas if you spend a couple of extra weeks polishing your performance you can play good gigs from the start. This will build your following faster and more effectively. Getting someone back to see you when you were crap the first time they saw you, is really hard so don't risk it. What you really want is to be so good the first time they see you that they bring 5 mates to see you next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Oh and if I was playing that list I'd not expect to rehearse for 6 months. As an experienced covers band player I could probably gig that lot in about 2 weeks time, if everyone else knew what they were doing. That's the other side of taking on experienced covers players .. They are not used to heavy rehearsal schedules ... Make up set list CD's, give them out and everyone learns that version. It's a lot easier than hammering orginals arrangements in to everyone .. You just say "Don't believe a word, Thin Lizzie live version from Alive and Dangerous, Key of G." and that should be enough for a lot of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endorka Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 [quote name='pete.young' post='454309' date='Apr 4 2009, 07:54 PM']We've got some of these. I wouldn't buy them again. It's all very well when they're on the stands, but lifting the buggers on and off is a real PITA.[/quote] There is an easy way to do this - put speakers & stands together horizontally on the floor, then from the speaker end lift them together until they are vertical. Reverse to dissasemble. Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clauster Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Go for it Beefy! Some notes from the local perspective - Classic rock goes down a storm in our neck of the woods, sound quality isn't that important, but visuals are - (needless to say, my band did pop/indie, had a great PA, didn't dress up and had no lights of our own ). Sweet FA are flavour of the moment with most pub landords at the moment as they do the whole glam rock dressing up thing and everyone knows at least 90% of the set, plus they've got a bit of a following so landlords know they'll get some extra punters who wouldn't normally set foot in their pub. Basically think "entertainer" rather than "musician" and you'll have a successful covers band in the West kent / East Sussex area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 [quote name='OldGit' post='454387' date='Apr 4 2009, 10:17 PM']Oh and if I was playing that list I'd not expect to rehearse for 6 months. As an experienced covers band player I could probably gig that lot in about 2 weeks time, if everyone else knew what they were doing. That's the other side of taking on experienced covers players .. They are not used to heavy rehearsal schedules ... Make up set list CD's, give them out and everyone learns that version.[/quote] I always think that playing covers is the art of "getting by". I've been in a position of having to learn 50 songs in two weeks and you have to make some compromises. As long as you start and finish together, play more or less the right chords in the middle and keep smiling you're laughing! Taping notes to the back of the PA helps enormously too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayfan Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Go for it - doing covers is fun and it's not all Robbie Williams or classic rock. PA wise, we've got 2x powered speaker cabs (£250ea), a mixer with FX built in (£100), a powered monitor each (£100ea) and mics and cables (£100ish). PM me if you want details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Most of the advice here covers everything so I don't have much to add, most of my work is 'covers' in the shape of functions corporates parties etc etc but the outfits I work with cover a wider range of material than an average covers band (ie from circa 1900 to the present day). The only thing I would say is I have found that I enjoy playing more material than I would expect compared to my listening, I enjoy playing many songs that I wouldn't really listen to, even the hated Mustang Sally, as if you're in a band with top notch players a great groove is a great groove (to be fair it's rare that I play it though) most of all I just want to say have a good time doing it, and I'm pleased that the guy who sent me a PM saying he was nervous about joining a band appears to have caught the gigging bug big time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hubrad Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Dammit! I was hoping you all meant Valerie by Richard Thompson! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 [quote name='hubrad' post='454638' date='Apr 5 2009, 01:17 PM']Dammit! I was hoping you all meant Valerie by Richard Thompson! [/quote] Let's face it.... it's actually not a bad bass line and I could look at the legs on that scouse bird all day long (Please excuse sexism and racism all in one sentence!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boy Thunder Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 A shed load of good advise up there.. My covers band has been going for just over 2 years and we all started out with no previous experience... and, as such, we are just getting to the point where, having done the pubs nearby, we are getting some good "word of mouth" bookings... (weddings, private parties etc). I don't regret doing it that way as we all started at the same level and we have grown together as a band... It also removes the "Well, my old band did it like this..." and "I know what I'm talking about, young man." which we got when we were looking... When we started we were "lucky" enough to buy a PA off a guy who was quitting the covers scene. We got a Wharfedale setup.. Tops, mids and subs along with all the bits to go with it.. Quite honestly far more than we needed.... We found this out and sold the lot... We now have a pair of powered FOH speakers (RCF 712s) and 2 powered wedges for foldback, 1 for the vox and one for the drummer. When it comes to what songs you want to play... I would agree with what has been said before... Go and see a local band or two and see what they play and how well it goes down... It's an eye opener... You also want to make sure you really don't hate anything too much... There are a few I don't like but hey... that's the nature of the beast... There will also be times when a drunken fella stands at the front of the stage screaming for his fave Pogues track.. Best to say its coming later than telling him to fornicate elsewhere... What can you expect to earn?... That depends on what the event is and how good your negotiating skills are but I'd say, here in Leicestershire.. Pub gigs £200-£350 for 3 x 45 min sets Private parties around £500-£600 Weddings... £750 min... this is just a rule of thumb for round here... things will be different round you... We are signed up with agents and to be honest... they don't really get us that much work... The ones we are with work on the basis of we tell them how much we want and they add their fee on top... as long as we get what we want then I couldn't give a fig... Avoid agents that say "Your fee is £1000. Then you pay us 10%+vat"... Really avoid them..... Make sure you have a good contract too if you're doing a wedding, party or corporate event... It saves a lot of trouble later on.... We include a sliding scale of fee payable if the client cancels.... ranging from non-refundable deposit to full fee payable... it depends on the notice we get and how reasonable it would be that we could book another event on that day.. It also makes sure that we get parking, dressing room, food and soft drinks... Very important if, at a wedding, you have to arrive and setup early then not play until 8 or 9 o'clock.... Like what was said up there too.. Always arrive on time, be polite and stay sober... Never swear, smoke in front of kids or shag the bride.... Having been in a number of original bands I find covers exposes me to styles that I previously wouldn't have listened to and by learning to play them I think I've become a better player. Good luck.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironside1966 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Treat it like a business Work out who your market is Eg , pubs, clubs, corporate. And find out what is expected Eg PA, lights and stage clothes Play the songs that they will want to hear but not necessary what others bands do, find your niche. Play to your strengths. Chose songs that the singer can sing well and avoided the ones he or she can’t even if you think they will go down well. Make Shure you band his up to the required standard , don’t rush out to half ready and start with a bad reputation. Watch tempos, and volume when necessary. You may have consider some parts on track ,Eg strings brass or p Cuss for a more refined sound. Above all Entertain and enjoy Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 [quote name='Boy Thunder' post='454691' date='Apr 5 2009, 02:34 PM']Never shag the bride....[/quote] Playing a wedding in a few weeks and one of our Dave's is hoping to break that rule - but it is his wedding ~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted April 5, 2009 Author Share Posted April 5, 2009 [quote name='Boy Thunder' post='454691' date='Apr 5 2009, 02:34 PM']I don't regret doing it that way as we all started at the same level and we have grown together as a band... It also removes the "Well, my old band did it like this..." and "I know what I'm talking about, young man." which we got when we were looking...[/quote] This is why I'm keen to set it up myself. I know it's not the most effective way to get into playing covers, but I think it will be the most fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johngh Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Great thread this, with some terrific advice. Only thing I'll add is if you have musicians you know to start the band with, then that's great. But starting a new band up, and auditioning people who have answered musician wanted ads at the same time, can be soul destroying. Out of the 2 band's I've just joined one is an established function band, the other is a new tribute project that will be ready to gig in the next couple of months we hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molan Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Unless I've missed it somewhere the other thing you need to think about is a sound man. Having even a half decent out front set of ears can make a huge difference to what the punters actually hear out front. There's the simple benefit of controlling the mix so everything is properly balanced but he can also turn up a soloing instrument, compensate for your guitarist repeatedly turning up during the evening & pull out any nast frequencies if they start to inexplicably feed back on you. Even having the benefit of getting signal levels adjusted in the monitors can make a world of difference between a good & bad gig experience. I know a lot of 'pub' bands don't think it's necessary to have a sound man & some of them are so experienced and know exactly how to set everything so their foh sound is OK but I've seen a zillion pub bands with buried keyboard player who might as well not be there, a guitarist who overpowers the vocalist and a poor old bass player who's reduced to a dull background thud. Don't even get me started on some live drum sounds (although for a lot of pub gigs tyou're stuck with whatever the kit sounds like acoustically as it's too damn loud to even think about micing up!). Potentially it's another mouth to 'feed' but, on the basis that you're not earning a lot for pub gigs, then you might be lucky enough to find someone who really enjoys live sound work & will survive on a share of any income & a few beers. There are definitely some old pros kicking around who don't mind doing the odd pub gig for fun & beer. I've 'worked' with some with a lifetime's experience, even a few who spend maybe 6 months every year on the road with a full pro touring band but fancy keeping their hand in whilst not touring. Really helps if they like your music and/or simply get on really well with you too! I'm lucky to have a sound guy who owns a good quality, and flexible, PA plus a decent lighting sytem. He loves the job & even comes along to lots of rehearsals to try out equipment & often to record them for us on a portable digital unit. He's very much an equal member of the band and ges an equal share of all income. We're pretty democratic in terms of song choices and he gets a shout on choosing songs & stuff as well. People like these are gold dust so if you do find a friendly pro then it'll be a real bonus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elom Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Once you start to get paid then that makes you semi-pro and people expect a certain standard of professionalism. This doesn't just apply to the music but the 'business' side of it too - turning up on time, handling cancellations, sending out posters in advance, talking to both the punters and the people who are paying you, and so on. The suggestions about set lists are pretty spot on. For me it boils down to, whatever your genre, play stuff that people know. As a covers band that's what you're there for. One of my bandmates keeps suggesting great songs for us to cover but we hardly ever do because, good as they are, almost all the punters will never have heard of them. We used to play Celebrity Skin by Hole, which we thought people would like, but when we'd finish it was like tumbleweed was blowing through the venue - [i]every time[/i]. Also the running of the band takes quite a bit of effort, especially getting gigs and co-ordinating diaries. For this I'd second the suggestion of the gig-getter book, paid for itself a hundred times - honestly. You really do need someone to take on that organiser role, and I think that might be you! Best of luck... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boy Thunder Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 [quote name='OldGit' post='454760' date='Apr 5 2009, 04:25 PM']Playing a wedding in a few weeks and one of our Dave's is hoping to break that rule - but it is his wedding ~[/quote] Ah... that's ok then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 [quote name='elom' post='454918' date='Apr 5 2009, 09:10 PM']The suggestions about set lists are pretty spot on. For me it boils down to, whatever your genre, play stuff that people know. As a covers band that's what you're there for. One of my bandmates keeps suggesting great songs for us to cover but we hardly ever do because, good as they are, almost all the punters will never have heard of them. We used to play Celebrity Skin by Hole, which we thought people would like, but when we'd finish it was like tumbleweed was blowing through the venue - [i]every time[/i].[/quote] It's a whole thread by itself, "what covers did you think would be a dead cert but went down like a lead balloon?". Anything by the Arctic Monkeys is my bitter experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmer61 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 [quote name='thepurpleblob' post='454971' date='Apr 5 2009, 10:22 PM']It's a whole thread by itself, "what covers did you think would be a dead cert but went down like a lead balloon?". Anything by the Arctic Monkeys is my bitter experience [/quote] Nope, Fake Tales always seems to go down a storm ... it is a great track mind you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) [quote name='molan' post='454819' date='Apr 5 2009, 06:24 PM']Unless I've missed it somewhere the other thing you need to think about is a sound man. Having even a half decent out front set of ears can make a huge difference to what the punters actually hear out front. ///snip// People like these are gold dust so if you do find a friendly pro then it'll be a real bonus [/quote] Gold dust indeed. That is such a luxury. In the absence of such a great opportunity you need someone with ears who can tell you what to do to make sure everything is audible and balanced. Then you need a band full of people who trust that person and not sneak a few clicks up on their level... I do this for our band and I can tell you that EVERY time I tell the drummer his snare is too loud and to put the halo thing on it that tames it a bit he grunts and grimaces at me.... and we're like brothers and have been playing together for more than 20 years .... Getting compliance from bull headed people would be very hard. So an outsider, especially one with loads of street cred like molan's man, would be a huge benefit.. Re tunes no one knows ... I think you can play them and get a good reaction as long as they are accessible and work fine the first time people hear them. Things with obscure words and no melody will be hard to get over but you just have to work the showmanship up a notch. Once your crowd has seen you do it a few times the problem tends to be less. We used to do a big band jive number in a soul band I was in. No one knew it at all but more than once I was told by a punter that it was in The Blues Brothers .. It wasn't but they just thought they knew it.. The question you have to ask yourself is "is this the best tune we could be playing n this slot" and if you love it and it makes you feel happy and you can infect your audience with some of that then stick with it. Tumbleweed after a tune? You shouldn't have that problem. Just fix it by not leaving any gaps .... easily dealt with ... Edited April 6, 2009 by OldGit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molan Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 In my old band we had a guy who worked with us for a while who was a top quality touring pro who just happened to take a liking to us so worked for £50 and a few beers. He was about 6' 4" & had massive shoulders to go with it. Full of "tales from the road" like - did I tell you about the time I lost my spleen He basically frightened the hell out of everyone so no-one took the piss out of him. Only exception was our lippy guitarist whose Dad told him he was too quiet in the mix in the first half of one gig. He had a load of his teenage mates in the audience & wanted to show off his chops to them as well. He gave the sound man a bit of a mouthful & he duly said he'd sort it in the second half. At which point he removed the guitarist almost entirely from the mix After the gig he also explained in a very painstaking, & mildly agressive, manner why you should never screw with your sound man. A lesson the guitarist took great heed of &, to this day, is as sweet as pie to every sound man he's ever worked with since. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyJay Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I'd agree with most of what's been said with the exception of playing songs that you personally loathe. In the band that I'm in if one of us doesn't like a song, we bin it, no exceptions. I think it's really important to be happy with what you're playing and there are plenty of good, catchy, popular songs about that you can replace the lost one with. Just seek out those you all agree on. It helps if you've all got similar tastes or tastes that overlap. If you hate a song, you won't give it your all, end up resenting playing it and audiences notice that. Good luck with it, I love it and have much more fun than in the originals band I used to be in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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