Band politics

[JohnSlade07]

I especially like the band members that try to play in several bands at once, but can never quite keep you up to date with which dates they are free and not,. That hardly make any contact between gigs and then are incredibly fussy about when they rehearse. Make no contribution to writing setlists yet spend half the night complaining about song choices and telling the rest of the band that the next number is going to "kill it" without ever offering anything constructive in its place. Who's opening conversational gambit normally consists of "I'm not in the mood for this tonight". Who obsess about their kit and let the rest of the band carry it to their car without ever lifitng a finger to help anyone else carry anything. Who spend the first hour of any rehearsal setting their gear up. To top it all I particularly like the ones who text during the bits in songs their not required to play.

[Bilbo]

Being a musician attracts a wide variety of individuals and the agendas of each of them is different. Wayne Shorter took up the saxophone because it was shiny, others did it because it got them girls.

Some people are attracted to the romantic idea that they are an 'artist' (I know I am) and, like the artist/musicians they read about, they like (need?) to think of themselves as 'uncompromising' and project themselves accordingly. Their self image is an essential part of who they are and they need to maintain that at all costs (its a common human trait). So, given the scenarios we are talking about, it is inevitable that some people are going to be in a 'bad space'. Some can't wait to gig because they want to be seen and so are out there before they are gig ready. Some never want to gig because they are so frightened of failure that the rehearsals are never good enough for them to acknowledge that the band is ready to take that next step. The glamour of this industry, in all its complex forms, is what keeps it going but it is also what creates the problems you are describing. It is people politics and it is not just confined to bands.

You 'just want to play'. Others may want to play well; others to play to a level of excellence that is all but unattainable. Some just like the social aspect of being in a band and 'talk a good gig' others will always be there, on time and ready to play. Like all groups of people, the human dynamics are profound and need careful managing. Lots of egos in a room each pushing their own agendas will always lead to friction of some sort but this needs to be (and can be) managed if you are able to stand back and figure out what motivates people, individually and collectively (you would be amazed at how many people are afraid of success). Its about learning to compromise and about finding ways to disagree without being disagreeable. Politics, as it is being described here, is an inevitable part of working with groups of people. I think 'human dynamics' covers it better as 'politics' implies something machiavellian and none of this is about manipulation.

[AM1]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='451510' date='Apr 1 2009, 02:14 PM']Being a musician attracts a wide variety of individuals and the agendas of each of them is different. Wayne Shorter took up the saxophone because it was shiny, others did it because it got them girls.

Some people are attracted to the romantic idea that they are an 'artist' (I know I am) and, like the artist/musicians they read about, they like (need?) to think of themselves as 'uncompromising' and project themselves accordingly. Their self image is an essential part of who they are and they need to maintain that at all costs (its a common human trait). So, given the scenarios we are talking about, it is inevitable that some people are going to be in a 'bad space'. Some can't wait to gig because they want to be seen and so are out there before they are gig ready. Some never want to gig because they are so frightened of failure that the rehearsals are never good enough for them to acknowledge that the band is ready to take that next step. The glamour of this industry, in all its complex forms, is what keeps it going but it is also what creates the problems you are describing. It is people politics and it is not just confined to bands.

You 'just want to play'. Others may want to play well; others to play to a level of excellence that is all but unattainable. Some just like the social aspect of being in a band and 'talk a good gig' others will always be there, on time and ready to play. Like all groups of people, the human dynamics are profound and need careful managing. Lots of egos in a room each pushing their own agendas will always lead to friction of some sort but this needs to be (and can be) managed if you are able to stand back and figure out what motivates people, individually and collectively (you would be amazed at how many people are afraid of success). Its about learning to compromise and about finding ways to disagree without being disagreeable. Politics, as it is being described here, is an inevitable part of working with groups of people. I think 'human dynamics' covers it better as 'politics' implies something machiavellian and none of this is about manipulation.[/quote]

In this instance it IS politics, not people dynamics. Rather not drag into all the details and haven't got the time but personal agendas are different to people dynamics.

When I said I just want to play, it goes without saying that I want to play to a level of excellence, both individually and collectively. I am my own worst critic in this respect. I guarantee you no one out there can beat me up about perfection as much as I do myself.

When you are forced to go ahead despite knowing that certain circumstances/elements are less than perfect and it's either a case of get on with it and do the best you can (but knowing it could be much better) or don't do it at all, it's just frustrating.

Maybe I am the problem and too much of a perfectionist. It won't be the first time or last time I'm accused of it!

Hey ho.

[xilddx]

The Soap Box column in the latest Bass Player kind of sums it up.

Edited April 1, 2009 by silddx

[Buzz]

Find friends, make band.

Not find band, try and make friends with band members*.

You generally then pick people you get on with and are more in tune with you and know how each other act and react, although if it all goes to sh*t there is a chance of losing good friends.



*Unless you're a pro, in which case you can be paid enough to put up with the crap.

[clauster]

I know how you feel AM - been through four months of "politics", which ended up with the band going belly up twice in that time-frame. The last couple of weeks I've felt like selling my kit and just not bothering anymore.

Fortunately, I refound my love of bass a couple of days ago - just playig along to stuff I haven't tried in a couple of years. Singer and I have had a chat and we're going to start an originals project - writing for the next two or three months while looking for a guitarist, then once we're sure we've found one who "gets" what we want to do we'll find the drummer and get ready to start gigging again.

For the first time in ages I'm quite excited about this music malarky

[DirkThrust]

[quote name='AM1' post='451538' date='Apr 1 2009, 02:38 PM']When I said I just want to play, it goes without saying that I want to play to a level of excellence, both individually and collectively. I am my own worst critic in this respect. I guarantee you no one out there can beat me up about perfection as much as I do myself.

When you are forced to go ahead despite knowing that certain circumstances/elements are less than perfect and it's either a case of get on with it and do the best you can (but knowing it could be much better) or don't do it at all, it's just frustrating.

Hey ho.[/quote]

I feel your pain. My motivation is playing music well. I've been in enough mediocre bands to not want to do that any more but I feel like a wet blanket constantly wanting to drop songs that don't work as well as I'd like. It always seems to be me wanting to drop songs and someone else saying "but it's good enough to gig".

Ironically it's probably the best bunch of musicians I've played with. The drummer is absolutely phenomenal, the keys player is a classically trained pianist and one of our 2 female singers has a great voice if the song is right for her.

It's very difficult to identify exactly where a song is going wrong and what to do about it and to decide how much time to spend trying to get it right before accepting that it's not going to work.

Fortunately the band is fairly democratic so if any one person doesn't like a song and feels strongly about it we will usually end up dropping it but even so, I always seem to be the pessimist saying "I really don't think this is good enough"

The last couple of bands I've been in have been dominated by overbearing control freaks who have to have their own way in everything. That type of situation just leads to everyone getting frustrated and angry if one person always overules everyone elses viewpoint.

[Rich]

I must be the luckiest buggger in the world, because all the bands I've ever been in have been great ego-free places. The Destroyers especially is like a big family, and we have a whale of a time. Especially on the far-flung weekend-away type gigs... we all book into the same hotel together, all get trashed together, all nurse our hangovers together. It's brilliant.

[peted]

In my last covers band the lead singer/guitarist seemed to develop quite a few issues and we must have split and reformed in the space of 6 hours on at least a few occasions throughout a year.

Had fun with my tribute band last week. We haven't even started gigging yet as we're getting the set together. We decided that we need to diversify a little to get some initial gigs going. The guitarist, who got the band together in the first place, is quite dissmissive of music he doesn't like and when our backing singer suggested some songs she would like us to consider playing he suddenly went overboard with the criticism and hurt her feelings. Luckily that all got patched up over a few emails and phone calls. I tend to stay out of these rucks where I can and just concentrate on learning the basslines and turning up on time

[Jambo63]

Ahh, band politics.........

Has finally killed off the blues band I've been in for the past 3 years or so.

Drummer and keys have basically ruined what was a decent band starting to get into bigger and better gigs by not:

Rehearsing regularly, refusing to do gigs further afield, drummer especially asking for outrageous money for gigs (although he said he doesn't do it for the money honest ), drummer thinks he's the dog's dangly bits (he's not)

I feel your pain AM, band politics suck big time

Rant over

[jonny-lad]

I try to find out what people want from a band when I first get involved - If they all want different things, they'll need to compromise, and if they can't, I'll walk away...I still give things a chance, but I think it's important to look after what you want yourself. I think it's good to keep your options open, play in a couple of bands, or if that's too much, have one main commitment and occasional jams with other musicians, then if anything goes wrong, you haven't lost everything - you can keep playing and keep motivated.

I suppose it's quite easy for me to say that, as I'm in several bands, but out of those, only one is ever really busy at any one time. They all know my situation, and they accept it. If they didn't, I'd have to accept that I couldn't play in that particular band, but I've got other options that I can focus on.

I hate the politics thing, and I've spent a few years developing a way to deal with it that works for me...I think it will always be a problem, even in a good band, I think it's how you deal with it that really makes the difference.

Hope this helps.

[s_u_y_*]

I've had enough of band politics, and now prefer projects where there is an effective "bandleader". Some may call it a Dictatorship. I call it working without any bullcrap. I usually only do this where I respect the bandleader as a creative force.

Do I get annoyed that sometimes if my ideas and suggestions aren't taken up. Yes. But at least things get done, gigs are booked and ultimately I enjoy myself more.

[jonny-lad]

[quote name='s_u_y_*' post='452478' date='Apr 2 2009, 02:56 PM']I've had enough of band politics, and now prefer projects where there is an effective "bandleader". Some may call it a Dictatorship. I call it working without any bullcrap. I usually only do this where I respect the bandleader as a creative force.

Do I get annoyed that sometimes if my ideas and suggestions aren't taken up. Yes. But at least things get done, gigs are booked and ultimately I enjoy myself more.[/quote]

That's a great situation to be in - definately works for me aswell! As long as people know the score and they're happy with it, it works really well.

I also find that when I'm playing in someone else's band, not only does it take a lot of pressure off me (to organise rehearsals, book gigs etc.), I also feel more motivated to run my own projects on the side and I find that I'm more productive when I'm busy gigging (for a bandleader or for myself), than when I'm not.

[bremen]

[quote name='AM1' post='450917' date='Mar 31 2009, 10:01 PM']I am just about ready to scream.

Please someone else share their band politics tales of woe here so I feel better.[/quote]

Where to start.

The last two bands I've been in have collapsed just as they were starting to get good, both due to one or more member's drugs or drink habits.

The other thing that spells disaster is sex. Band politics are bad enough, but to get involved in a marital between the singer and the drummer is enough to drive a bass player to drugs or drink.

I'd go looking for a straight-edge group, but I do enjoy getting pissed as a c*** in moderation.

[cheddatom]

The Premature Ejaculators fell apart because the singer couldn't suck up his pride and take responsibility for his pissed-up actions. Very sad!

[xilddx]

[quote name='s_u_y_*' post='452478' date='Apr 2 2009, 02:56 PM']I've had enough of band politics, and now prefer projects where there is an effective "bandleader". Some may call it a Dictatorship. I call it working without any bullcrap. I usually only do this where I respect the bandleader as a creative force.

Do I get annoyed that sometimes if my ideas and suggestions aren't taken up. Yes. But at least things get done, gigs are booked and ultimately I enjoy myself more.[/quote]

Exactly the position I'm in, and I'm also allowed enough creative expression and interpretation to broadly satisfy me. It's so much better. My "band leaders" are very experienced pro musicians and it shows. In the bus, on the stage and in the studio.

[OldGit]

I'm just putting a band together and I'm making it very obvious where the decisions are being made right from the start.

It's my and the drummer's band.

We came up with the idea, we're financing it, we're getting the gigs. We ultimately decide on the genre, set and gigging pattern and objectives. We are making it very clear that this is the situation and if it fails it's our responsibility.

We've already had one guy decide he didn't want to play with us because we insist on using email for communications.
"Oh I spend all day on email I don't want to do it at home as well. Can't you ring me up?"
Nope, sorry. There's 8 people, loads of info to convey and midi files to send round for goodness sake. I'm not prepare dto read the emails to you. Get a grip.

We plan to share responsibility for coming up with tunes with everyone but we still retain quality control and if the proposed tunes don't achieve a certain effect (ecstatically happy punters and bookers) then they won't be in the set.

We even have a dress code sorted out and everyone in the band has to dance ...

So if people want to join they have to like that way of working.

I'm not surprised to say that several people have responded to our advert with a "thank god, a band that has its act together at last" 'cos they are fed up with playing in bands that are teetring on the edge of chaos all the time ...

[William James Easton]

i find a swift knee in 'the jewels' puts and end to any dispute with fellow band members.

i am now on band number 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19................