paul h Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 People complaining about discussing basses...on a bass forum. Amazing. Surely there are only n. amount of topics we can cover anyway? I reckon we probably discussed everything a couple of years ago so maybe we should all just shut up and leave? Sorry to be confrontational, something I normally try to avoid, but if you are not interested please just stay out of the thread. Simple. [quote]The one person that would notice would be you, and that might well influence how well you play.[/quote] I think that's a key point. If we were only doing this for the audience perception we would probably be all playing cheap P copies. (Nothing wrong with I may add.) The fact is that all this time and effort we put into tone is purely for ourselves. And if anything, anything at all makes us happier and play better, then that's got to be a good thing. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 [quote name='dlloyd' post='436266' date='Mar 16 2009, 04:37 PM']The one person that would notice would be you, and that might well influence how well you play.[/quote] A few rehearsals ago I treated my bandmates to the Barefaced Big One prototype. The subsequent rehearsal cue incessant winging about not being able to hear me properly through the old Trace Elliott 4x10" - I on the other hand didn't give a damn about it not sounding as nice, I could hear what I was playing and it sounded like a bass, more important to get on with the music. But sadly the music didn't happen quite as well as I'd like because they couldn't lock onto me as well. Next rehearsal I took the Barefaced cab again and they were happy campers. I on the other hand was annoyed that I couldn't just turn up with my bass! Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathewsanchez Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I sometimes have an odd urge to order a warmoth jazz bass with Mahogany body, Koa neck and Pau Ferro fingerboard and stick fender electronics in it. Not sure why though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='436236' date='Mar 16 2009, 04:10 PM']Obviously construction (which includes wood choices) has to make a difference otherwise all those shopfuls of basses wearing similar roundwound strings would sound identical unplugged - and I've played enough basses to know that is no way the case! How much you'll hear those differences when plugged in depends on the honesty of the pickups and amplification. Alex[/quote] SO in that statement you admit that all the wood,and type of construction,means sh*t all when its plugged in...because you are hearing P/Us and strings...not the wood....hense,I win..YAYYYYYYYY..... Fact is this,I play a Jazz,its me playing a Jazz,I play a P.....guess what..its me again......I play a Warwick.....well this could go on.... The Carl Thompson interview I use is over scale...A man who knows a ton more about building instruments than you Alex,part of the Thompson sound to me is EMG P/Us,and scale.and the fact that wood is to abstract...like ways to describe sound,such as CT says in the interview......unlike pretty much metal as a substance,to clearly define its properties in tone creation or affection. Scale makes things brighter and clearer over greater length in the lows...thats science,a world ruled by facts not hearsay and alchemy....see a piano for details kids....but you dont get Bechstein or Bosendorfer arguing over the wood used in construction,because the the strings are anchored at each ends by parts made of metal....say thats like a bass isnt it....but they look nice dont they. Maybe stringthru body brings the wood into play a bit more,But I dont hear it,the killer for most vibration is the metal saddle,with an nth going into the body...we dont fit magnetic P/Us in the ass of our instruments..so maybe the Piezo users have more 'wood' than regular joes....in tone terms. Ive played pisslight EBMM's and Buttheavy EBMMs...they still sounded like Stingers to me,so the wood had nowt to do with it,and to say you can tell the difference is myth and lie. We dont buy an electric instrument to play it acoustically,thats madness.... Ive played Bright mahogany instruments,Ive played Dark and murky Maple instruments....the wood means very little...as I say,the player,the strings guage,scale,the P/U..the P/Us position,The Bridge,where the strings plucked....the electronics..Body shape....woods way down....dosent mean it does not affect tone at all,its just a very very very very small part and then before that theres the amp,cable,speakers..... ----- Prove ,without any doubt that X type of wood,ALWAYS sounds like X and I will believe you....but its untrue,you know it,buy the wood coz you like the look of it,but dont get all bogged down in the myth that wood IS the be all and end all of tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 And I am not posting in a aggressive fashion If you want smileys go on MSN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 [quote name='ARGH' post='436396' date='Mar 16 2009, 06:10 PM']SO in that statement you admit that all the wood,and type of construction,means sh*t all when its plugged in...because you are hearing P/Us and strings...not the wood....hense,I win..YAYYYYYYYY..... Fact is this,I play a Jazz,its me playing a Jazz,I play a P.....guess what..its me again......I play a Warwick.....well this could go on.... The Carl Thompson interview I use is over scale...A man who knows a ton more about building instruments than you Alex,part of the Thompson sound to me is EMG P/Us,and scale.and the fact that wood is to abstract...like ways to describe sound,such as CT says in the interview......unlike pretty much metal as a substance,to clearly define its properties in tone creation or affection. Scale makes things brighter and clearer over greater length in the lows...thats science,a world ruled by facts not hearsay and alchemy....see a piano for details kids....but you dont get Bechstein or Bosendorfer arguing over the wood used in construction,because the the strings are anchored at each ends by parts made of metal....say thats like a bass isnt it....but they look nice dont they. Maybe stringthru body brings the wood into play a bit more,But I dont hear it,the killer for most vibration is the metal saddle,with an nth going into the body...we dont fit magnetic P/Us in the ass of our instruments..so maybe the Piezo users have more 'wood' than regular joes....in tone terms. Ive played pisslight EBMM's and Buttheavy EBMMs...they still sounded like Stingers to me,so the wood had nowt to do with it,and to say you can tell the difference is myth and lie. We dont buy an electric instrument to play it acoustically,thats madness.... Ive played Bright mahogany instruments,Ive played Dark and murky Maple instruments....the wood means very little...as I say,the player,the strings guage,scale,the P/U..the P/Us position,The Bridge,where the strings plucked....the electronics..Body shape....woods way down....dosent mean it does not affect tone at all,its just a very very very very small part and then before that theres the amp,cable,speakers..... ----- Prove ,without any doubt that X type of wood,ALWAYS sounds like X and I will believe you....but its untrue,you know it,buy the wood coz you like the look of it,but dont get all bogged down in the myth that wood IS the be all and end all of tone.[/quote] So you're saying it's not the wood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 [quote name='BigBeefChief' post='436401' date='Mar 16 2009, 06:13 PM']So you're saying it's not the wood?[/quote] Not to the amount some people want to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 [quote name='dlloyd' post='436223' date='Mar 16 2009, 03:49 PM']....When you're playing live 99.5% of the audience don't even notice that there is a bass there unless you stop playing....[/quote] You're not playing as loud as me then!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6stringbassist Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I once played two Alembic basses in the Gallery, both the same model, same electronics through the same amp, different woods and both sounded totally different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 [quote name='6stringbassist' post='436410' date='Mar 16 2009, 06:21 PM']....I once played two Alembic basses in the Gallery, both the same model, same electronics through the same amp, different woods and both sounded totally different....[/quote] Quite possibly, but to ARGH that's not proof enough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I think the only person that believes that wood is the be all and end all of tone is the mythical creature that ARGH is arguing with. The rest of us have enough sense to realise that everything contributes to varying degrees. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 [quote name='ARGH' post='436396' date='Mar 16 2009, 06:10 PM']SO in that statement you admit that all the wood,and type of construction,means sh*t all when its plugged in...because you are hearing P/Us and strings...not the wood....hense,I win..YAYYYYYYYY.....[/quote] Did you ever do any of those things called 'comprehensions' at school? Where you learn to read something and comprehend what it's actually saying... Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 So if I played three basses all strung with DRs and all fitted with EMGs, they'd sound the same whether they were made of mahogany, ebony or balsa. Hell, why does it have to be wood if it has so little impact? So they'd sound the same if they were made of mahogany, ebony, balsa, concrete, fibreglass or jelly babies. Rrrrrright. Finally I see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 The great thing about this is that ARGH can buy all those basses that sound really hopeless, put nice electronics in them, and sell them for a fortune because they'll sound amazing. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 [quote name='chris_b' post='436420' date='Mar 16 2009, 06:32 PM']Quite possibly, but to ARGH that's not proof enough![/quote] Because it isnt,its about 'A' wood makes 'A' type of sound.....quit nitpicking Alex,you are wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='436426' date='Mar 16 2009, 06:35 PM']Did you ever do any of those things called 'comprehensions' at school? Where you learn to read something and comprehend what it's actually saying... Alex[/quote] read the op Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 [quote]I think Chris May, Martin Petersen, the people at Alembic, Fodera, Mike Tobias etc etc would probably argue that point.[/quote] I think that's a very fair comment but, the two luthiers I've spoken to on the subject give the wood about a 10 to 15% influence on the 'tone' as a maximum. So maybe it does have a small effect, and if you're shelling out for a custom instrument then 15% would be significant. When combined with wood mass, neck construction, pickups, strings and pre-amp it will become considerably significant. Then going back to the argument that most punters don't know their 4 string P from their 6 string Yamaha it's only likely to be us who care anyway. As I've said before, coffee table woods have their uses: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 [quote name='Rich' post='436427' date='Mar 16 2009, 06:35 PM']So if I played three basses all strung with DRs and all fitted with EMGs, they'd sound the same whether they were made of mahogany, ebony or balsa. Hell, why does it have to be wood if it has so little impact? So they'd sound the same if they were made of mahogany, ebony, balsa, concrete, fibreglass or jelly babies. Rrrrrright. Finally I see.[/quote] No Rich....Its about saying 'THIS' WOOD MAKES 'THIS' TONE!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='436422' date='Mar 16 2009, 06:33 PM']I think the only person that believes that wood is the be all and end all of tone is the mythical creature that ARGH is arguing with. The rest of us have enough sense to realise that everything contributes to varying degrees. Alex[/quote] Re read..I agree it is in there...but its not to the extent you think it is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathewsanchez Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I remember there was a test on EB forums where they recorded two sound samples of the same bass with different necks (both necks were EBMM sterling necks though), one maple fingerboard the other rosewood. People guessed which was which and as I remember, when the answer was announced, most people got it right (including me). The difference was very subtle but definately there. I think it's stupid to say woods have no impact on tone as that's clearly not true, but I think wood differences can be very subtle or very apparent. After all a basses sound is just the sum of all the materials used and how they're put together. Different materials have different resonant qualities - fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 [quote name='GreeneKing' post='436434' date='Mar 16 2009, 06:43 PM']I think that's a very fair comment but, the two luthiers I've spoken to on the subject give the wood about a 10 to 15% influence on the 'tone' as a maximum. So maybe it does have a small effect, and if you're shelling out for a custom instrument then 15% would be significant. When combined with wood mass, neck construction, pickups, strings and pre-amp it will become considerably significant. Then going back to the argument that most punters don't know their 4 string P from their 6 string Yamaha it's only likely to be us who care anyway. As I've said before, coffee table woods have their uses: [/quote] Come 10:30pm..if you could mic up a fart in a pint glass and it was roughly in tune,punters wouldnt notice...But some bassists on here would argue over the pints construction,and the type of fart bred.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I refer back to my previous post Said luthier is also of the opinion that if you put EMG's on a bass it will sound like all the other basses with EMG's etc, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 [quote name='mathewsanchez' post='436444' date='Mar 16 2009, 06:47 PM']I remember there was a test on EB forums where they recorded two sound samples of the same bass with different necks (both necks were EBMM sterling necks though), one maple fingerboard the other rosewood. People guessed which was which and as I remember, when the answer was announced, most people got it right (including me). The difference was very subtle but definately there. I think it's stupid to say woods have no impact on tone as that's clearly not true, but I think wood differences can be very subtle or very apparent. After all a basses sound is just the sum of all the materials used and how they're put together. Different materials have different resonant qualities - fact.[/quote] Totally,but you cant just whitewash wood with a statement like Maple is THIS type of tone,It might be,it could be,but can you be sure,...and thats when taste comes in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Peter please stop posting that pic,one day I swear Im gonna see it sans coaster.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Luc Pickguard Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 In my experience my heavy ash precision sounds a lot brighter my alder one. That could be due to the maple fingerboard against a rosewood one though, but I can't work out why that might make a difference if body wood doesn't. Body wood may not make the biggest tone difference of all the possible variables, however I believe it can make a difference. If anyone believes otherwise, it makes no difference to me. They can believe in Pixies, Eskimos and a magic man that lives in the sky for all I care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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