Vintage Fenders

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, Sparky Mark said:

Indeed. Those seem to be the reissue relic set now used on Roadworn and CS relic instruments.

 

Curve ball! Notched both sides, which makes sense, particularly if they are cut in two or three operations.

 

It's also the AVII 1960 P:

 

 

And the Flea Jazz:

 

 

 

 

 

[Stub Mandrel]

On 12/05/2025 at 22:55, Hellzero said:

Thanks @wateroftyne, we can see that step going through the whole tuner thickness here more clearly on a 1960 Precision Bass:

 

 

 

This is clearly different from the 'repro' tuners. The notch is square.

 

I'd hypothesise that originally a length of strip was cut into tapered blanks in a guillotine. These would then be die-cut at each end to round them off. If the blank was originally cut slightly wide then the thin end would be cut like this.

 

The wider end would not be noticeably affected due to the different shape. Indeed the double 'flare' seems deliberately chosen to allow for some variation.

 

As the blanks would be cut in batches, it seems reasonable that, if the guillotine was also used for other jobs, or had to be reset after sharpening, the effect would change between batches. As all tuners would be considered the same, one would expect batches to get mixed up...

 

You could write a PhD thesis about this...

[wateroftyne]

This is all very interesting stuff.

 

I honestly thought the notch was a commonly known thing, but having Googled it… apparently not(ch).

[Hellzero]

Indeed @wateroftyne, and it's absolutely not documented in any book about the subject and I own a lot, including the amazing trilogy named Our Vintage Soul or the fully documented The Authority of Fender Bass, in those books the instruments have been fully dismantled... 😉

[Reggaebass]

I think it’s an intentional feature myself and not faulty machinery or they would have put it right in the first place 

[wateroftyne]

4 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

I think it’s an intentional feature myself and not faulty machinery or they would have put it right in the first place 

Based on nothing but a hunch, I'm inclined to agree.

[briansbrew]

My new tuners

 

[Hellzero]

43 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

I think it’s an intentional feature myself and not faulty machinery or they would have put it right in the first place 

 

38 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

Based on nothing but a hunch, I'm inclined to agree.

Not so sure, as some notched (let's call them that way) tuners don't have this feature on both sides and they have cohabited with absolutely non notched ones.

 

Check this photo I have already uploaded before: no notch on the treble side...

 

[wateroftyne]

I don’t think notched on the treble side is a thing in that era - just reissues?

 

[Stub Mandrel]

7 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

I don’t think notched on the treble side is a thing in that era - just reissues?

 

 

I agree with @Hellzero I'm sure it's a product of the manufacturing process, not intentional. If it was intentional it would be curved like in the re-issues or at the wide end of original tuners.

 

I think I have the answer, looking at the photo that started all this off.  Compare the two middle tuners:

 

Relative to the screw holes and mechanism, the plate on the D-string tuner is 'higher up' with a bigger gap between the top edge and screws tan the A-string tuner.

The A-string tuner is noticeably longer so that it contacts the E-string tuner, but the lower screw holes appear to be the same distance from the edge.
 

The lower edge of the worm gear on the D-string appears to align with the bottom of the plate, that for the A-string overlaps considerable, despite the plate being longer. It could be a trick of the camera perspective, however.

There are definite variations in the dimensions of the tuners that point to multiple operations using jigs or tooling that are not at the same settings, if not completely different.

A few minutes with a pair of calipers would sort it out.

[Hellzero]

44 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

I don’t think notched on the treble side is a thing in that era - just reissues?

 

This is not a reissue, but an original model from Andy Baxter's website.

 

And here is another's oddity, notched on the treble side, but not on the bass side, again an original from the same supplier:

 

[Hellzero]

And here notched on both sides, same supplier again:

 

Edited 9 hours ago by Hellzero

[wateroftyne]

Curious that the RI tuners are notched both sides..... 🤔

[Alanko]

12 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

Curious that the RI tuners are notched both sides..... 🤔

They could have unwittingly taken a tracing of one half of a notched vintage tuner and mirrored it in CAD to create a template for a full plate with minimal geometric ambiguity. It now has two notches.

 

Or they are using vintage stamping gear and whatever happened to the die on one side has now happened again on the other side!

[Stub Mandrel]

56 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

And here notched on both sides, same supplier again:

 

In my view, your images prove the variation is down to jig settings or other variations.

It now seems possible that the corners were 'clipped' one at a time.

 

The variation could simply be down to how accurately the operator fitted the dies (and presumably some sort of guides) when switching to do bottom corners. Such small variations would be much harder to spot on the top corners because of the shape, you would have to measure them.

[Hellzero]

2 hours ago, wateroftyne said:

Curious that the RI tuners are notched both sides..... 🤔

As some original are too. Look my previous posts above.

[Alanko]

We need 8 mm footage from the Kluson factory to surface!

[Aidan63]

Had a look at some of the picture's in Geddy's book, obviously not many close up shots of the backs of the headstocks and rarely shot square on but you can see notches on at least one of the 50s Ps and a '63 Jazz quite clearly, treble or bass side, and also evident on quite a few Reverb listings of original tuners using google search, and they vary in how pronounced they are, and often visible from the back but barely evident on the hidden front face which suggests to me the tools worked loose during the stamping runs so didn't always make properly square contact

[briansbrew]

Front and back and no sign of any notches

 

[Mrbigstuff]

I think we’ve deduced it happened but isn’t a sign of originality that can be used to accurately date a Fender bass. An interesting find nevertheless.