Paid to play

[thebeat]

[quote name='thebeat' post='337833' date='Nov 26 2008, 10:48 PM']Thank f*** i decided to be a drug dealer [/quote]


I was [i][b]joking[/b][/i] by the way...now will everyone stop PM'ing me?

[thebeat]

[quote name='ARGH' post='337965' date='Nov 27 2008, 01:30 AM']We have,via msn..you were rude,ignorant,and creepy...[/quote]



Have you ever thought of an alternative career in the Diplomatic corps?

[ARGH]

[quote name='ped' post='338026' date='Nov 27 2008, 07:28 AM']Well apart from not answering my questions I found that pretty harsh. 'rude,ignorant,and creepy'? How so? What does 'after reading what you have,and others have said about 'us' the greater mass,on Basschat, said in 'other' places,I dont care' mean?

ped[/quote]
Lets log onto Finnbass and discuss it.

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='ARGH' post='337919' date='Nov 27 2008, 12:10 AM']You are one lucky f***er..Im going to remember you,if we ever pass by,You get a pint,no questions.[/quote]

I am very lucky and I know it, and I've been known to bollock musician colleagues who moan about the gig they're on reminding them what it would feel like to actually have to work for a living.
It's an utterly charmed existence in my opinion, I go all over the world get loads of top quality food and drink free, meet loads of interesting people. Thats just a small percentage of the work, I also play outside in fields sometimes in March in the snow, and sometimes it's hard to get home at 3AM having driven 250 miles but I love what I do and would not change it for the world.
P.S I could survive without teaching, but as an earlier poster pointed out there is no shame in teaching at all, in fact it's a rather noble pursuit. And who would not take work in the times when you can't earn from playing ie in the morning, so I fail to see any gravity in your point in this regard.

Edited November 27, 2008 by jakesbass

[ped]

Argh - since I have had my account deleted at my request, how about no! Why can't you answer my questions here? PM me if you prefer! Why would you ask me to discuss it there?

ped

[Adrenochrome]

A few thoughts:
My cousin is a fantastic and dedicated saxophonist based in London. She toured North America with Roger Daltrey's band before the recent Who reformed and she's toured twice with Micheal Bolton (I know, I know). Anyway the point is when not doing tours like that she's still had to teach for 1 or 2 days per week on top of her normal gigs to make ends meet.

Another point is that it's great being a weekend warrior. I'm not the only person here who has a steady 9-5 job who basically live for playing live. I treat the covers band as a p/t job in terms of having an 'almost' professional attitude to performing and dealing with venues and promoters etc, however I still get a massive buzz from playing live at the same time as getting better and better (and better paid) gigs.

ARGH - yes the circuit is definitely contracting but the good bands are still very much in demand and the venues are being more discerning about who they book. The Lion (Cas) for instance has only booked us once for next year so far (based on our perceived ability to pull punters in) but generally we are getting some very good bookings for '09.

[bottomfeed]

...an interesting thread indeed!...

I can relate to the 'light' & 'dark' sides of this [i]business they call show[/i]
As a kid, I could never imagine me dealing with the 9 - 5 game, it just wouldn't suit me... sounded like a prison sentence! ...so I avoided it.

For the last 30 years my income has mainly always come from 'music related diseases' ...Bands, teaching, recordings etc.. consequently I have had times of poverty & also [i]relative[/i] wealth ... I've bought up 2 kids (..for several years as a single parent)
It has often been very tough making ends meet... but it [i][b]definitely[/b][/i] has been an adventure!....
I have no pension!
[i]I'll be 48 in march 09[/i]

I've just got back from playing a week in Cyprus with a funk/soul covers band, to find a royalty report for $303.17 for my share in a Sample CD that was recorded over 6 years ago on the door mat.... that gives me a glow!

it's not big ([i]or clever![/i]).... but it's my life... & for the most part, I enjoy it...

I don't think I could do anything else.....

[Jamolah]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='337863' date='Nov 26 2008, 11:12 PM']But I soon realised that regular income from a mindless activity was utterly without joy.


I think the most important thing that you miss is that I am a very happy musician. If I wasn't I would do something else.


I will also reiterate that I know literally hundreds of musicians who survive and are happy some of them having earned more from one job than many would in a years work.[/quote]

Very big +1 for this. I spent a few years working a grueling shop job and hating it. Now I make (admittedly not much) money from playing, and I wouldn't trade all the late nights and frustration and ringing ears and utter bloody joyful music making for any 9-5 you care to offer. I also quit my pub band, waving goodbye to the only regular paying gig I had. There just had to be something out there more fulfilling than banging out 'Alright Now' and 'She Sells Sanctuary' every saturday night. Sacrificing financial comfort for our love of music and our artistic drive is just par for the course, if that's your bag.

True I don't 'just' play, but everything I do that makes money is based around music, as a player, teacher and workshop facilitator. I couldn't do it without the support of my partner and our families, and sometimes I feel like a sponge, which sucks. But I endeavor to live within my means and contribute, and if she/they can accept that, then I can live with being close to broke for the love of making music. That's reward enough, for the time being.

I'd point to a guy like Steve Lawson as an example that those willing to work hard and approach full time playing from a business-savy-but-artistic angle can make a living out of their own music. Lots of Jazz and creative musicians play and workshop more or less full time, mostly without big label success or any promotion but their own. I think that's encouraging enough to justify giving it a go.

Just my 2 cents.

JP

[Huge Hands]

I know I've tried to address this with you before ARGH, but in my opinion, if you speak to people in real life the way you do to people on here, I'm not surprised to see you don't get regular happy gigs. Remember that thread about how you couldn't get a decent originals band?

I actually liked and on the whole agreed with your first post on this thread - [i][/i]for me[i][/i]. I have never had the desire to be a full time muso because I'm too selfish in that I only want to play what I'm happy playing. That is a generalisation, as we currently play stuff in my current band I'm not keen on, but it's all about working in a team and understanding everyone's likes and dislikes, even the punters. If I had my way fully, we'd be playing 20 minute slow groove Issac Hayes style self indulgent over produced funky soul. I can't imagine there's too much of a market for that all night long. What I mean is, I wouldn't be happy sessioning on stuff I didn't feel happy playing, so I never went pro. I couldn't play "just for the cash".

However, flaming people such as Ped and Jakesbass for having a different opinion is a bit too far out of order IMO. I do know some guys who are pros on such things as the cabaret circuit and as far as I know, they are happy playing Mustang Sally etc. I wouldn't be, but they are.

You cannot force the world to think like you. You can voice your opinion though.

Sorry mate, not trying to start a war, just wondering why you put up "shock" posts and then get really abusive with those who try and take you up on your comments.

Edited November 28, 2008 by Huge Hands

[MythSte]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='338056' date='Nov 27 2008, 08:27 AM']There are many musicians whose only wish is to make the world a better plaice ...[/quote]

No one else noticed this? Genious! haha.

We get paid a few hundred every gig now. Keeps our studio going. Investment innit. Id be scared to have to make a living off it without label backing though.

[William James Easton]

[quote name='MythSte' post='339158' date='Nov 28 2008, 03:48 AM']No one else noticed this? Genious! haha.

We get paid a few hundred every gig now. Keeps our studio going. Investment innit. Id be scared to have to make a living off it without label backing though.[/quote]

i've just been enjoying your band on mespace. read it, thought "i'm not going to enjoy this" but i did.

[BassMunkee]

[quote]I know I've tried to address this with you before ARGH, but in my opinion, if you speak to people in real life the way you do to people on here, I'm not surprised to see you don't get regular happy gigs. Remember that thread about how you couldn't get a decent originals band?

I actually liked and on the whole agreed with your first post on this thread - for me. I have never had the desire to be a full time muso because I'm too selfish in that I only want to play what I'm happy playing. That is a generalisation, as we currently play stuff in my current band I'm not keen on, but it's all about working in a team and understanding everyone's likes and dislikes, even the punters. If I had my way fully, we'd be playing 20 minute slow groove Issac Hayes style self indulgent over produced funky soul. I can't imagine there's too much of a market for that all night long. What I mean is, I wouldn't be happy sessioning on stuff I didn't feel happy playing, so I never went pro. I couldn't play "just for the cash".

However, flaming people such as Ped and Jakesbass for having a different opinion is a bit too far out of order IMO. I do know some guys who are pros on such things as the cabaret circuit and as far as I know, they are happy playing Mustang Sally etc. I wouldn't be, but they are.

You cannot force the world to think like you. You can voice your opinion though.

Sorry mate, not trying to start a war, just wondering why you put up "shock" posts and then get really abusive with those who try and take you up on your comments.[/quote]
+1 on this.
I thought there was a certain amount in what you said that was undoubtedly true in a blunt and "un-sugared" way, but a lot of the rest just came across as unnecessraily negative and aggressive.
Again I have no intention of starting, or being in, a flame war - but seriously dude, you need to chill.

[thepurpleblob]

Ahem... don't feed the troll...

[Bilbo]

I did a great jazz gig on Wednesday and had to drive the singer there because her partner (the drummer) had to go there directly from work (teaching). Both Andi and Alex are university trained pros whilst I am a self-taught semi-pro. The conversation got round to gigs and it transpires that I do more than both of them. When I think that through, it feels good. I earn nearly £40k in my day job (+ pension, holiday and sick pay) and all the gigs I do are on top of that, some function work but mostly small group jazz.

I get VERY frustrated at not being able to play, study and compose music every second of every day but that is not actually a money thing because, if I could compose what I would like to compose, its market value wouldn't necessarily generate a great deal of income.

I think that point is that, if you are going to be a pro, it is like any other small business. You have to be nice to customers, smile when they are being complete t***ers, deliver the product they want when they want it. You do your accounts, offset your expenses, save your tax, do the Math. If it works (as it does for Jake), then that's fab. If it doesn't, you have decisions to make. What are you, as a small business(wo)man going to do about it?: rebrand, change your product line, train and develop, regroup? Or just sell up and go get a proper job? If you treat it as a business and offer the same commitment to it as any small businessperson should, you will see rewards. Whether they are enough is up to you.

There has always been a sense that being a muso was a way to get to Oz and that the streets there were paved with gold. They are if you are lucky but only in a 'right place at the right time' 'lottery win' kind of way. In my experience, you get the breaks if you are ready for them and able to commit. In a round about way, I could have been in Feeder and had a career as a Rock god (!?) but when Grant went to London to make his fortune, I chose to stay where I was in a secure day job and get a mortgage. There are days when I wish I could be playing the O2 but I can't help remembering that Jon Lee topped himself so, whatever the glamour suggests, it can't all be roses!!

Life is not about one choice and one path. We are all on several paths at once. I don't know Jake at all but, from the contact I have had with him, I think his attitude to life is great. He will be happy because it is in his nature to be. Whether he plays or teaches or both, he will be happy because he will make his decisions with integrity and conducts himself accordingly. My decision, as a musician, is to try to play music I like as much as I can. My approach to music is as an artist not as a businessman (my abilities as an artist are deeply questionable but my intent is honourable) and, for me, the music is its own reward (I got less than expenses for the jazz gig on Wednesday but it was the best gig I have done all year). How we feel about what we do is determined by a range of factors and being either pro or semi pro is actually only a tiny part of that.

[BassMunkee]

[quote]I did a great jazz gig on Wednesday and had to drive the singer there
...edited for space...
How we feel about what we do is determined by a range of factors and being either pro or semi pro is actually only a tiny part of that.[/quote]
Wow.

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='339488' date='Nov 28 2008, 12:10 PM']I did a great jazz gig on Wednesday and had to drive the singer there because her partner (the drummer) had to go there Life is not about one choice and one path. We are all on several paths at once. I don't know Jake at all but, from the contact
*Also edited for space*
How we feel about what we do is determined by a range of factors and being either pro or semi pro is actually only a tiny part of that.[/quote]

Very nicely put.
and on a personal level thanks.
Jake

[OutToPlayJazz]

Thanks first of all to Jakesbass & Bilbo for some excellent wisdom on this topic...

Something Bilbo mentioned about what you play being important struck a chord with me. I'm now at the point of time-poverty with all the daytime music teaching work I do & all the playing as well. I really love the jazz work I do & it's a real pity the private functions business has dried up do to financial situations, etc. Only the bigger corporate stuff is still coming in at the moment. It is unfortunate that I have to go out and play in a rock trio & with a big tribute band, because I know I'm only doing that playing for the money, as opposed to for my personal satisfaction.

Given the time I'd set up my Flecktones-style band with piano, bass, drums, electric violin, soprano sax & tuned percussion. But for the time being I have to grin and bear classic rock & cheesy 80's pop. Ah well

Rich.

[Weird War]

It's hard to make a living from music.

Life is not fair.

Somewhere a bear wanders into the woods.

[BassMunkee]

[quote]It's hard to make a living from music.

Life is not fair.

Somewhere a bear wanders into the woods.[/quote]

Snigger.

You are on a cold and lonely path in The Misty Mountains.
You go East.
Gollum appears.
"What has it got in it's pockets?"
You go North.

[endorka]

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='339617' date='Nov 28 2008, 02:16 PM']...But for the time being I have to grin and bear classic rock & cheesy 80's pop. Ah well [/quote]

Do you ever need a dep?

Jennifer

[Adrenochrome]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='339488' date='Nov 28 2008, 12:10 PM']I earn nearly £40k in my day job (+ pension, holiday and sick pay) and all the gigs I do are on top of that...[/quote]

Bilbo, could you do less hours in your day job and do more music? It's something I wouldn't mind doing when I'm a bit older.

[geilerbass]

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='339617' date='Nov 28 2008, 02:16 PM']But for the time being I have to grin and bear classic rock & cheesy 80's pop. Ah well [/quote]

If was playing cheesy 80's pop on a Status S2, I'd be grinning... with pure delight!

[Bilbo]

[quote name='Adrenochrome' post='339659' date='Nov 28 2008, 02:45 PM']Bilbo, could you do less hours in your day job and do more music? It's something I wouldn't mind doing when I'm a bit older.[/quote]

That's being considered as we speak but my fear is that I would lose the income and NOT spend the time doing music but keeping the house cleaning and laundry more up to date and 'doing those little jobs around the house'! If my book gets published, other doors may open!

[Bilbo]

[quote name='BassMunkee' post='339652' date='Nov 28 2008, 02:41 PM']Snigger.

You are on a cold and lonely path in The Misty Mountains.
You go East.
Gollum appears.
"What has it got in it's pockets?"
You go North.[/quote]

My and Golly (as I call him) go back a long way. Apparently he hates me forever. He hasn't seen me for ages

[BassMunkee]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='339799' date='Nov 28 2008, 04:18 PM']My and Golly (as I call him) go back a long way. Apparently he hates me forever. He hasn't seen me for ages [/quote]
LOL - don't be cruel, give the poor little chap his ring back!

Our bunny would have those carrots soon as winking...!