Bass preamp DI into PA (and no bass amp)? Can it work well?

[Jack]

[quote name='jimfist' timestamp='1494556428' post='3296972']
Cabinet simulation is nothing more than EQ and filtering that resembles a bass speaker cabinet, either generally (using filters and parametric EQ) or specifically (using digital cabinet Impulse Responses). If you were to analyze the EQ curve of a mic'd bass cab, you'd see that there are usually many, many EQ notches and some complexity that is difficult to capture using traditional EQ...but...you can get close if you know what you're trying to EQ. However, I'm of the opinion that it is the complexity of the EQ response curve that gives a mic'd cabinet its unique character. Whether either one is better than the other is purely subjective.
[/quote]

Indeed but how much of that eq (how many notches if you like) does one really need? I'd be happy with a set hpf and a variable lpf if necessary. Then you could get all of the colour within that set range by running something like a Sansamp in front of the filters. And to be fair, that would only be with distortion, I regularly run clean through my MXR M80 with nothing other than the 3 band eq on that.


Some people would crave the exact response of a greenback. Horses for courses as ever.

[NancyJohnson]

I couldn't remember whether I'd replied to this, so there must have been a similar post previously. Remember those old science test you did at school? Question, hypothesis, method, result, conclusion?

[b]Question:[/b]
We're down on a bill, headliners are providing cabinetry. Will I sound OK?

[b]Hypothesis:[/b]
We'll skip past this, but suffice, bassist didn't bring any cabinets. You know it's not going to be great.

[b]Method:[/b]
Well, I have my rack, let's feed a Sansamp RBI into the house PA.

[b]Result:[/b]
Awful. Front of house was apparently fine, but onstage, nothing.

[b]Conclusion:[/b]
Never rely on other people providing equipment and always take what you need.

[Defo]

It's really hard if you're used to having a nice warm stack or punchy combo by your feet, we all grew up in a symbiotic relationship like that didn't we? At the end of the day what matters is the right responsiveness going back into your ears, if your monitors can do that then great, that said what monitors can give you what a £2000 stack you've spent decades working up to can do?

[chrismuzz]

I've gone direct using a Sansamp BDDI, blended in with another gain pedal with excellent results. The way I set my rig up I could quite happily gig without an amp, mine is basically a glorified monitor

[Lozz196]

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1494672001' post='3297730']
I've gone direct using a Sansamp BDDI, blended in with another gain pedal with excellent results. The way I set my rig up I could quite happily gig without an amp, mine is basically a glorified monitor
[/quote]

Same here Chris, I use so many provided rigs that I`ve got my preamp/DI set for my sound to FOH, then whatever I`m using is a glorified monitor. I actually used all of my own set-up for the first time since September last week.

[Al Krow]

Rookie Q if I may please.

So if I turn up with just a DI pedal (and Lozz has persuaded me of the merits of the Tech 21 Para Driver DI v2 for tonal reasons) and NO AMP as monitor, what to do in terms of getting an IEM sorted - in terms of set up? (I'll have a look at the IEM thread to get some recommendations for IEM kit unless you think there are a couple of obvious ones to consider (which are good value + decent quality rather than necessarily cheap!)

[Jack]

You just take an IEM feed from the desk as you would anyway. As far as the soundman is concerned its just like any other monitor feed.

[Al Krow]

[quote name='Jack' timestamp='1495199267' post='3302077']
You just take an IEM feed from the desk as you would anyway. As far as the soundman is concerned its just like any other monitor feed.
[/quote]

Cheers Jack. Sounds very straightforward, thanks. Just need to get myself a decent IEM. One follow up query - I'm just a bit concerned on the number of monitor outs that a typical FOH will have and whether there will be spare for IEMs. But I suppose if he has used them all up for the monitors I'm not going to need an IEM anyway as I should be able to hear myself through one of the monitors, right?!

Edited May 19, 2017 by Al Krow

[LewisK1975]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1495200008' post='3302091']
Cheers Jack. Sounds very straightforward, thanks. Just need to get myself a decent IEM. One follow up query - I'm just a bit concerned on the number of monitor outs that a typical FOH will have and whether there will be spare for IEMs. But I suppose if he has used them all up for the monitors I'm not going to need an IEM anyway as I should be able to hear myself through one of the monitors, right?!
[/quote]

Correct.

I've been amp-less on stage for some time and it works well as others have said, but you can run into monitoring issues in different venues.

Most FOH guys are used to dealing with folks using IEMs these days, but be aware that there are still some guys around who will moan about providing every band member with a personal IEM mix. I'm speaking from recent experience!

Edited May 19, 2017 by LewisK1975

[dannybuoy]

I would only turn up to a gig without an amp if I knew beforehand that they had good monitors or a desk capable of working with your IEM setup. Try and talk to the venue/soundman beforehand, and if you're not 100%, always take an amp as backup!

[Jack]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1495200008' post='3302091']
Cheers Jack. Sounds very straightforward, thanks. Just need to get myself a decent IEM. One follow up query - I'm just a bit concerned on the number of monitor outs that a typical FOH will have and whether there will be spare for IEMs. But I suppose if he has used them all up for the monitors I'm not going to need an IEM anyway as I should be able to hear myself through one of the monitors, right?!
[/quote]

If you're concerned then it may be worth investing in an xlr splitter, that way you could 'interupt' a monitor mix that's on its way to a wedge somewhere. Not ideal, but you'd be able to hear what's going on.

[Al Krow]

So I went against my guitarist's advice and went straight into the house PA via their own DI pedal for the first time last night - told him I'd had plenty of reassuring feedback from fellow BCs who had been doing this for years to reassure him it wasn't just me acting on a whim! (I did take my small Promethean 3110 combo which has a DI out, as back up, just in case! But it wasn't needed). Our guitarist had to admit it worked just fine in terms of what the audience was hearing, although, to be fair, the bass through the house monitor sucked (quite tinny) in comparison to the fuller bass sound that the band would have heard on stage when I previously played through my Markbass AC 121 Lite and DI'd out from that.

Conclusion: really good to know that directly DI'ing into the venue's PA is possible, but likely to be a sub-optimal experience for the band in the absence of good stage monitoring.

Edited May 27, 2017 by Al Krow

[randythoades]

Well done for giving it a go Al.
Really depends on the venue. Monitoring through small monitor speakers does sound really tinny but DI sounds good in my IEM and is always consistent. I still do take my amp to a most gigs, just for a backup and also for a little presence and low end heft for the people at the front (and for my use as a table to hold my stuff). At my gig on Friday night I had to turn up my amp a little as guitarist decided not to bring IEM and vocalist IEM phones broke so needed on stage sounds.
We get good comments about the clarity of our sound and always DI/mic up all instruments including drums through PA. Makes it much easier to control overall sound too.

Also makes it easier wen asked to DI as we are used to it.Playing a festival during the summer and the sound guy is very happy that I have no problem just turning up with pedal board and bass. He was getting a lot of stick from some of the other bands wanting to bring monster stacks wen only 15 mins between bands for setup. Just of the back of that we have probably got another gig that he gets involved with.