Playing bass with spondylitis

[martthebass]

Well it appears that the years of playing bass have finally taken their toll and my neck and shoulder pain have been put down to spondylitis . (Spondylitis the condition not the band...if there is one).
I've already put my heaviest bass (my Limelight Jazz) up for sale and will probably use my Status as main bass for the immediate future, but other than this has anyone got any tips to let me prolong my bass playing days?

Edited March 14, 2016 by martthebass

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

Sorry to hear . Smaller status perhaps ( streamline ) smaller amp . Walk about scout etc?

Not sure if it would help , but Pilates / stretching / sports massage before you gig?

Over to others ...

[martthebass]

Cheers Ray....

Fortunately I already have a Streamie, the others are mainly fo show (it doesn't look cool playing a Streamline when I'm doing Jam covers......apparently).

Trip to the physio methinks....

[bassace]

I'm sorry to hear that. There comes a time when wear and tear take their toll; I for one am having a lot of back pain and that's with double bass that supports itself. So for a BG it must be miserable. Have you seen a Chiropractor? A few sessions may well sort it out. I remember when I had neck and shoulder pains and I sorted that out with Naproxen. Not universally liked but I still take regular doses and it keeps me pain- free without side effects. Hang in there.

[Sercet]

I have the same condition. I used to have frequent back and neck pain. I started running and the pain has gone.

[Number6]

I have exactly the same problem which apparently also causes my migrain associated vertigo. I've had it nearly 5 years and it causes all sorts of pins n needles and stiffness in my arms (ain't health sh*te eh!).

In all honesty i continue playing via Messrs: Cocodamol, Ibufrofen and Diclofenac.

I am determined that i will decided when to hang up my bass and not the worn and torn parts.

I still play a Precision but it is heavy.

[chris_b]

How heavy were the basses you've sold?

I can easily manage 81/2 lbs but get uncomfortable with 9 1/2 lbs.

I guess the real answer is either a Hofner violin bass, or similar hollow bass, or one of those straps that fix around both shoulders or your waist.

[martthebass]

Thanks for the advice so far

I haven't sold any basses yet, the Limelight (up for sale on here) will definitely have to go, it's about 9.5lbs. The Streamie is only about 7lb so if I can't get on with that it's time to pack in....
My other two I'll think about but to be honest as I only use the Fretless occasionally I will likely keep it....I've always liked the MM Ray 2EQ fretless sound and when I owned a graphite necked (phenolic board) fretless I wasn't a fan.

So far just the cocodamol, Doc won't run to Tramadol or Diazapam, I'm hoping that it'll be sufficient. A new memory foam pillow has been purchased which I hope will also help. I'm allergic to ibuprofen.....so no help there lol!

[Twincam]

Well I know this may or may not work depending on the music you play.
But can you not use a tall stool, one of those you almost still look as if your standing. Then you can rest the bass on your knee.

[Twincam]

Also and this applies to everyone go to a good chiropractor!
You be surprised at how many issues they can treat, headaches, other joint pain, mobility problems etc

[chris_b]

A stool is a good idea. I've used one in the past.

A semi acoustic bass will only weigh about 4-5lbs.

[Wonky2]

I feel your pain buddy, i have ankylosing spondylitis (AS) and it seems im a fair way down the path than you are, so take some comfort in that that your playing days are far from over

Chronic pain and fatigue are a hard bag with bass as every thing is so damn heavy!

I hope you manage to keep playing for a long time to come buddy.

Where am i up to ? Well, ive had it for a very long time, over 23 years typical diagnosis takes average of 8-10 years as its not until dmage has been done that they commit to giving it a name.
Whats lucky for you is that the major meds available for it,the ones which aledgedly prevent it progressing are now available to you whereas up until only very recently some very stringent criteria applied, this is due to it costing approx £15k per annum.
Theyre called anti tnf (anti tumor necrosis factor alpha drugs), i have tried a few over the years and currently inject enbrel weekly, allthough it doesnt help much to be fair, maybe im too far gone?
The typical route before those drugs are Nsaids (non steroidal anti imflammatory drugs) like ibrupropen, diclofenac etc..... Then its Dmards (disease modifying anti rheumatic drugs) such as Sulphasalazine........
I have used methotrexate injections, which is basically chemo drugs.... Non help really, only pain killers, of which imcould give you a list as long as your arm. I now use morphine twice a day.

Point is this...... Non of the above help a great deal and pain killers simply treat the symptom not the cause. The single best thing you can do, is move. Too much, youll make it worse, too little you will stiffen up. Find the right balance of moving the parts that hurt regularly.
Its hard to commit to an excersize regime, especially when you are tired, but its vital.
Dont under any circumstances as has been suggested go to a chiropractor, you will make it worse. Soondylitis is not a mechanical issue, it is caused by your immune system.

Ive been out tonight to rehearsal with the band, the very last thing i wanted to do was leave the house when i got in from work but i simply have to, otherwise i will loose what is dear to me. It has taken many things from me, including my ability to walk well, so i have made changes.
Playing bass, well, i sold my mesa walkabout and went for markbass light weight gear. My fender allthough not that heavy by most standards is for me and see's little outings. I do use a pn eb MM sterling, which is fantastic, shorter scale length smaller body and light enough. Use a wide 3 or 4" padded strap. Alternate between sitting and standing.
I have also take up double bass for our latest project. This thing is a real bug ber, i adore playing it and when sat on my amp i almost embarce/ hug the thing! Im carrying no weight of it, it anything it supports me!
I just wish i could move it! Luckily the lads in the band move it for me, im very lucky with that.

Gigs..... Unbelievably hard work, usually i rest during the day and just conserve energy for the night. Our band just does maybe 1 1/2 hours max and thats it. I cant play any of the late night stuff anymore as it just sucks the life clean out of me and it takes days or weeks to get over it.

This isnt a sob story, far from it,and i dont mean to high jack your thread with my own story, its just a look in on how hard it can be yet it is still, with the right desire, possible.
I dont suggest you'll end up like me as i have a few things going on which make me this bad, ankylosisng spondylitis makes bones fuse together, mine have and they have trapped/ crushed nerves. Lower back and neck but im afected all over really.
I have regluar steroid injections in theatre under xray to guide them between the joints, they help alot and bring approx 3 months worth of relief.

One word of warning, Look out for trouble with your eyes, sore red eyes, as iritis is a commom partner and can take your sight. Any sign of that go straight to hospital.
Many people live very very normal lives with it, run marathons, and are very active as it helps (rest doesnt) but some, like me are pretty buggered with it.
I run a forum on the NASS web site (national ankylosing spondylitis society) if you have any questions or wish to research please register and drop on in.
Learning about it is the best thing you can do, understanding what makes it worse, for me, i have flare ups, they can last a day or two or a month or two! Lying in bed or sitting on a poor chair will kick it off, so work out what your doing during the day and see if that is aggrevating it.

Apologies for the long waffle, morphine and diazepam at bedtime make for gibberish.
If you wish to pm me any questions , anything at all, please do.

The long and short of it, even when its this bad, its oossible to continue playing

Wonky

Edited March 15, 2016 by Wonky2

[martthebass]

Cheers Wonky,

I've intentionally not scanned the interweb as I know down that path goes madness (or at least severe hypochondria). The Doc was fairly blaise with the diagnosis...along the lines of 'you're in your fifties, you've suffered wear and tear'.....there was no suggestion of auto-immune; are there different types? As far as I can tell, no other joints are affected but the pain in me neck is making me carry myself arkwardly so I'm suffering as much from muscle aches/pains as joints.

No extreme meds prescribed...he refused to give Diazapam even though my Physio said it would be useful for a few days to relax all the muscles so he could try and free the nerves up a bit.

I know what you mean about movement, trying to get the right balance is proving difficult. I'm going to go to rehersal tonight (with my lightweight gear) just to try and loosen up a bit.

I think I've had this for a while, I had an episode about 5 years ago which resolved itself after a couple of months; since then the odd twinge but nothing significant. This though has been more severe and protracted - enough to make me sit up and take notice!

Edited March 15, 2016 by martthebass

[Number6]

[quote name='martthebass' timestamp='1458036373' post='3004009']
Cheers Wonky,

I've intentionally not scanned the interweb as I know down that path goes madness (or at least severe hypochondria). The Doc was fairly blaise with the diagnosis...along the lines of 'you're in your fifties, you've suffered wear and tear'.....there was no suggestion of auto-immune; are there different types? As far as I can tell, no other joints are affected but the pain in me neck is making me carry myself arkwardly so I'm suffering as much from muscle aches/pains as joints.

No extreme meds prescribed...he refused to give Diazapam even though my Physio said it would be useful for a few days to relax all the muscles so he could try and free the nerves up a bit.

I know what you mean about movement, trying to get the right balance is proving difficult. I'm going to go to rehersal tonight (with my lightweight gear) just to try and loosen up a bit.

I think I've had this for a while, I had an episode about 5 years ago which resolved itself after a couple of months; since then the odd twinge but nothing significant. This though has been more severe and protracted - enough to make me sit up and take notice!
[/quote]

Funnily i loosen up quite well during a 3 hour rehearsal but when i travel home on the train afterwards.....i daten't sit down in case i can't stand up again. Oh the joys eh!

[Wonky2]

Mart, your right not to indulge for the exact reason you say, but you should perhaps learn a little about it in order to manage it.
There are indeed different types but all fall under an umberlla catagory called spondyloarthoprapies, bit of a mouth full !

I see your thread says spondylitis, hence the connection to my condition ankylosing spondylitis...... Be sure that your dr has said spondylitis and not spondylosis. They are very different and have different causes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spondylosis
Not to be confused with
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spondylitis

Both result in similar ways but were mine is caused by a faulty immune system ( hence immuno suppressant drugs) spondylosis on the other hand is caused by inflamation through wear and tear, hard work or poor posture.
Either way, what damage is done is done, it cant be undone ( with exception in some cases of surgery) and unfortunaitly it is degenerative, which is why you have to understand what makes it worse and how to improve it. Daily excersize or stretches will help alot and keep things moving as its felt more when that inflamation gets into ligaments and tendons.

One of the charactoristics of AS is it is better with excersize and worse with rest, you simply seize up and feel like youve had a silly session at the gym the day before.

Some of these excersize should help alot

http://nass.co.uk/exercise/exercise-for-your-as/watch-exercise-videos/

Edited March 15, 2016 by Wonky2

[Wonky2]

[quote name='Number6' timestamp='1458042660' post='3004107']


Funnily i loosen up quite well during a 3 hour rehearsal but when i travel home on the train afterwards.....i daten't sit down in case i can't stand up again. Oh the joys eh!
[/quote]

Number6, this is half the battle, in the moment you can feel alright, but when you stop its like your veins are coursing cement!

The transition from stationary to moving can be wicked. Im ok for a short while sat atop my amp hanging off my double bass, but when i try to stand and walk..... Oh joy indeed !
The way to avoid it is to avoid sitting in one place for more than say ten mins , get up regularly and move.... Vice versa if your standing...
I often put my hands in hit water before i play for around 5 mins, id reccomend that to anyone !

[Dan Dare]

Worth seeing an osteopath and getting them to have a look at/sort out your posture? A lot of classical musicians suffer from similar conditions and it can sometimes be helped a lot by changing the way you use the body. Playing an instrument is an unnatural thing to do and we often adopt an awkward posture without realising it. I play the fiddle and used to get a lot of pain in my neck/shoulder. Osteopath sorted that by getting me to alter the way I stood and changing my shoulder rest. Worth a try.

[Wonky2]

Posture is very important, if your joint do decide to fuse, better they do in an upright straight position then bent, make a conscious effort to stand up straight.
An osteopath may be able to help but as ive said before DO NOT have any chiroprachtics or manipulation. Your joints may have degenerated beyond the norm (given your pain) and manipulation can do two things, 1. Create more inflammation 2. Cause damage due to weakend joints.

Be clear on whether it is spondylitis or spondylosis you have.

If its the later its a mechanical cause rather than inflamatory they are dealt with in different ways.


For relief, get a microwavable hot wheat bag, they help alot.

[Number6]

[quote name='Wonky2' timestamp='1458083758' post='3004651']
Posture is very important, if your joint do decide to fuse, better they do in an upright straight position then bent, make a conscious effort to stand up straight.
An osteopath may be able to help but as ive said before DO NOT have any chiroprachtics or manipulation. Your joints may have degenerated beyond the norm (given your pain) and manipulation can do two things, 1. Create more inflammation 2. Cause damage due to weakend joints.

Be clear on whether it is spondylitis or spondylosis you have.

If its the later its a mechanical cause rather than inflamatory they are dealt with in different ways.


For relief, get a microwavable hot wheat bag, they help alot.
[/quote]

Particularly with the neck the Osteopaths/ Physio don't recommend manipulation. Stretching and movement are the way to go with the neck.

[martthebass]

Thanks for the information and advice guys. Had a session with the physio today, I was dreading it but he was very careful with the manipulation and movement exercises and there was definitely an improvement with my movement and level of pain after the session. After discussion with him he's fairly sure that it's spondylosis as opposed to AS and has scheduled me for sessions at 5 day intervals to keep me on a recovery path.

It may be a while before I'm comfortable with a bass again, even after half an hour with my little Streamie strapped on it felt like someone was pressing screwdrivers into my neck and shoulder so I'll have to take it easy for a bit. No gigs for a few weeks so that should be doable.

[Wonky2]

Mart, bad news on the spondylosis, but great news on the spondylitis, wouldnt wish it on anyone

Wide strap, sit dont and play, keep the pressure off it.