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RickenFakers

Happy Jack

By Happy Jack,
in Bass Guitars

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josh3184 Proficient

josh3184

Posted
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[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='435466' date='Mar 15 2009, 07:56 PM'][url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rickenbacker-Style-Bass-New-Mint_W0QQitemZ220378492532QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item220378492532&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A10|39%3A1|240%3A1318"]Harmony[/url][/quote]

seller is a bit silly saying in the listing that he can't mention the R word, but yet has it in the listing title :)

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nick Proficient

nick

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[quote name='Bassassin' post='434448' date='Mar 14 2009, 09:59 AM']......Interesting to see what this does.[/quote]

It disappeared.... :)

"[i]This is an automated response to your message concerning deletion of your
auction on eBay.

The shape of the headstock, body, nameplate, and certain other elements of
Rickenbacker instruments have achieved trademark status in all major world
jurisdictions through registration and other provisions of trademark law,
such as the Lanham Act in the United States.

Due to the burden placed on us by United States case law and the significant
investment we've made in these marks for more than seven decades, we must
strongly enforce proper usage of our marques and cannot permit their use
without permission or on non-Rickenbacker products. Removing mention of
"Rickenbacker" or any creative variation thereof is NOT sufficient to
reinstate your auction.

The eBay user agreement prohibits the sale of infringing goods and
bars the use of keyword spamming which is illegal in the United States.[/i]" :rolleyes:

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Bassassin Grand Master

Bassassin

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Pisser. Despite the fact that's of dubious legality (US trademark law not actually being UK legislation last time I looked) it seems as though the seller might have to find another avenue for the disposal of this plainly questionable item.

Perhaps he might find a potential purchaser among the users of a popular UK bassplayers' forum - particularly if he chooses to sell his hard-to-shift former object of desire for an amount close to the pittance that he is understood to have paid for it in the first place! :rolleyes: :)

J.

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nick Proficient

nick

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[quote name='Bassassin' post='437705' date='Mar 17 2009, 07:24 PM']Pisser. Despite the fact that's of dubious legality (US trademark law not actually being UK legislation last time I looked) it seems as though the seller might have to find another avenue for the disposal of this plainly questionable item.

Perhaps he might find a potential purchaser among the users of a popular UK bassplayers' forum - particularly if he chooses to sell his hard-to-shift former object of desire for an amount close to the pittance that he is understood to have paid for it in the first place! :D :rolleyes:

J.[/quote]

Mmmm....would love to, if wasn't for crippling debts,son's university costs,house value approaching negative equity etc etc....aghhhh!! :wacko:

Actually, just [i]literally[/i] privately sold it to a collector in the States for (IMHO) a 'fair' amount.
So I guess in a way Rickenwaffen have done me a favour, in saving me any ebay fees, etc :)

Will be sad to see it go, it is a really nice bass. However, I just cant get on with Ricks - taken me while to realise (or accept) it. It has been spending more & more time hanging on the wal, than actually being played. Plus the dosh will come in handy.

Edited by nick
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tauzero Grand Master

tauzero

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[quote name='nick' post='437721' date='Mar 17 2009, 07:43 PM']It has been spending more & more time hanging on the wal, than actually being played.[/quote]
Now that's just extravagant, having a Wal to hang other basses off.

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Mr. Foxen Veteran

Mr. Foxen

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[quote name='Bassassin' post='437868' date='Mar 17 2009, 10:36 PM']In these trying financial times I do find it hard not to look at my Rickenbugger as an investment...[/quote]

Perhaps you might find a potential purchaser among the users of a popular UK bassplayers' forum - particularly if you choos to sell your hard-to-shift former object of desire for an amount close to the pittance that you very likely paid for it in the first place?

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jonsmith Enthusiast

jonsmith

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[quote name='Bassassin' post='437705' date='Mar 17 2009, 07:24 PM']Despite the fact that's of dubious legality (US trademark law not actually being UK legislation last time I looked)...

J.[/quote]

No, but the ebay note also refers to jurisdictions outside the US and Rickenbacker have trademarks registered in the UK that are protected by UK trademark legislation. You and I both know that if any infringing listing comes to the attention of Rickenbacker* they will request that it is removed from ebay. They must be seen to protect their trademarks in these circumstances or they will eventually lose their trademark status. There are other companies that take similar action when infringing items appear (there is a thread somewhere on Basschat about one of them). We can disagree about the rights of the owners of intellectual property, designs & trademarks, but I think ebay have little choice when such items appear and they are asked to remove them.

*[i]Incidentally, they don't hear about them from me.[/i]


[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='437915' date='Mar 17 2009, 11:55 PM']Perhaps you might find a potential purchaser among the users of a popular UK bassplayers' forum - particularly if you choos to sell your hard-to-shift former object of desire for an amount close to the pittance that you very likely paid for it in the first place?[/quote]


Is that the one with the maple fingerboard? I could find a home for that...

Edited by jonsmith
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Bassassin Grand Master

Bassassin

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[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='437915' date='Mar 17 2009, 11:55 PM']...an amount close to the pittance that you very likely paid for it in the first place...[/quote]
It wouldn't be very much of an investment then, would it? And I have to say I spent rather more on that than I have on most of my other reclaimed firewood. :)

In the unlikely event I ever sold it I would expect a quite substantial return - it's not like I'm selling a house, is it? :ph34r:

J.

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Bassassin Grand Master

Bassassin

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[quote name='jonsmith' post='437937' date='Mar 18 2009, 12:55 AM']They must be seen to protect their trademarks in these circumstances or they will eventually lose their trademark status.[/quote]

You're quite right but that bit there's the point - [i]that's[/i] what's applicable under US law, not UK. Ebay will do what RIC request, irrespective of territory because they're a US company, if they didn't then RIC would likely be threatening them with legal action.

However RIC is quite tardy about taking legal action against certain non-US infringers - John Birch is a case in point. Birch have had a Rick copy (it's even called a 4001) in their range since the early 70s, and still do now, and RIC haven't batted an eyelid, despite being well aware of its existence.

This could be because Birch is a high-end, low-volume custom builder & as such is too insignificant to be worth bothering with, or it could be because if challenged, Birch could demonstrate a continuity of manufacture which pre-dates by decades RIC's registration of the specific design elements they would claim as infringements. Either way, Mr Hall chooses to turn a blind eye.

I've said before, I grudgingly support RIC's necessary actions in sweeping the evidence of copies under the carpet - such a small business needs to protect its IP, and I think in their case its loss would be a major threat to their future. I love Ricks, always have, and I think a bit of hassle selling vintage copies is a small price to pay.

J.

Edited by Bassassin
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2x18 Experienced

2x18

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[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4001-style-bass-body-and-neck-project_W0QQitemZ180338169592QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item180338169592&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A10%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4001-style-bass-body...A1%7C240%3A1318[/url]

Project Ricky on Ebay -- Crap photos though!!!

Will.

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phil_the_bassist Collaborator

phil_the_bassist

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[quote name='Bassassin' post='437943' date='Mar 18 2009, 01:15 AM']You're quite right but that bit there's the point - [i]that's[/i] what's applicable under US law, not UK. Ebay will do what RIC request, irrespective of territory because they're a US company, if they didn't then RIC would likely be threatening them with legal action.

However RIC is quite tardy about taking legal action against certain non-US infringers - John Birch is a case in point. Birch have had a Rick copy (it's even called a 4001) in their range since the early 70s, and still do now, and RIC haven't batted an eyelid, despite being well aware of its existence.

This could be because Birch is a high-end, low-volume custom builder & as such is too insignificant to be worth bothering with, or it could be because if challenged, Birch could demonstrate a continuity of manufacture which pre-dates by decades RIC's registration of the specific design elements they would claim as infringements. Either way, Mr Hall chooses to turn a blind eye.

I've said before, I grudgingly support RIC's necessary actions in sweeping the evidence of copies under the carpet - such a small business needs to protect its IP, and I think in their case its loss would be a major threat to their future. I love Ricks, always have, and I think a bit of hassle selling vintage copies is a small price to pay.

J.[/quote]


personally I think it kinda adds to the excitement of buying/finding/selling 'em on ebay BECAUSE they're of dubious legality...a bit like pushin the speedlimit, or being a drug mule for a Bolivian Coke Lord and gettin caught by customs with 2.8kg of the finest Marchin' Powder secreted up your rear entrance :ph34r: it merely adds to the fun of a normally banal experience!

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nick Proficient

nick

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[quote name='phil_the_bassist' post='438874' date='Mar 19 2009, 06:50 AM']personally I think it kinda adds to the excitement of buying/finding/selling 'em on ebay BECAUSE they're of dubious legality...a bit like pushin the speedlimit, or being a drug mule for a Bolivian Coke Lord and gettin caught by customs with 2.8kg of the finest Marchin' Powder secreted up your rear entrance :ph34r: it merely adds to the fun of a normally banal experience![/quote]

+1 to all the above.
I doubt also that Rickenbacker are savvy enough to realise that their behaviour goes in some way to inflating the prices of their copies. :)

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Bassassin Grand Master

Bassassin

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[quote name='nick' post='439523' date='Mar 19 2009, 06:21 PM']+1 to all the above.
I doubt also that Rickenbacker are savvy enough to realise that their behaviour goes in some way to inflating the prices of their copies. :)[/quote]
They do - it was one of the points I made (to no avail) in my near-mythic correspondence with J. Hall Esq. It's not really of any consequence to them - and to be honest I suppose it's more likely to put copies into the hands of collectors & enthusiasts rather than fake-badging gyppos.

Mind you, I don't think anyone's going to be fobbing this off as a lowly Rickenbacker:

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=220380315128"]Bloody Hell![/url]

:rolleyes: :brow:

J.

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josh3184 Proficient

josh3184

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[quote name='Bassassin' post='439720' date='Mar 19 2009, 09:00 PM']Mind you, I don't think anyone's going to be fobbing this off as a lowly Rickenbacker:

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=220380315128"]Bloody Hell![/url][/quote]

"Made in 1991 as a copy of Geddy Lee's rickembacker"

recon they spelt it wrong on purpose?

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Bassassin Grand Master

Bassassin

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[quote name='josh3184' post='442999' date='Mar 23 2009, 07:55 PM']"Made in 1991 as a copy of Geddy Lee's rickembacker"

recon they spelt it wrong on purpose?[/quote]


[quote]it was made by Hue Masnson[/quote]
[quote]shalla hardware (gold-plated)[/quote]

What do [i]you[/i] think?
:) :rolleyes: :D

J.

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2x18 Experienced

2x18

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Vintage Jolana

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vintage-Jolana-D-bass-neck-through_W0QQitemZ270363784510QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGitarren?hash=item270363784510&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A10%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vintage-Jolana-D-bas...A1%7C240%3A1318[/url]

Will.

Edited by 2x18
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Bassassin Grand Master

Bassassin

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[quote name='2x18' post='444734' date='Mar 25 2009, 09:27 AM']Vintage Jolana

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vintage-Jolana-D-bas...A1%7C240%3A1318"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vintage-Jolana-D-bas...A1%7C240%3A1318[/url]

Will.[/quote]

Linky no worky & I can't find it - got an item number?

Very interested in this - the last one of these went for a song but I was absolutely brassic at the time. If it's decent, I'll be having a punt if it stays affordable.

Just so's you know. :)

J.

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neepheid Grand Master

neepheid

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[quote name='Bassassin' post='444937' date='Mar 25 2009, 01:06 PM']Linky no worky & I can't find it - got an item number?

Very interested in this - the last one of these went for a song but I was absolutely brassic at the time. If it's decent, I'll be having a punt if it stays affordable.

Just so's you know. :)

J.[/quote]

270363784510

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Bassassin Grand Master

Bassassin

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Cheers Matt - didn't realise it was still at home in Prague! Unfortunately the €100 postage puts a slightly different complexion on it - although I could go & collect it for about the same!

Damn fine idea actually - Prague's a fantastic place. :)

J.

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hookys6stringbass Rising Star

hookys6stringbass

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I've started a Rickenfakers facebook page here.......

[url="http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/group.php?gid=78514186083&ref=mf"]http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#...6083&ref=mf[/url]


It's a bit sparse at the mo as i'm gathering pics and info.... please feel free to add your pics comments

I know I know i'm a sad get! ;-)

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