ambient Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I also sell via a production music company site that's based in the US, I guess that's digital, but I've heard nothing about that. When they first accepted me, I had to complete a declaration so I wouldn't be taxed on money I make from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman Steve Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 It's ok, I didn't read it last time and won't now. It doesn't affect me - I was merely suggesting that something which seems tedious and un-necessary now will soon be straightforward and actually a benefit to those whose costs exceed their income. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman Steve Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I'd follow up with the site. In theory the US is bound by the same rules and there is a non-Union MOSS scheme to which they should register. Their place of supply has switched to the customer from the business so they are trading in the EU in exactly the same way as folk here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman Steve Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 It's all interesting. I'll try and spend some time on it and try and start a more definitive thread. Tax turns on very small details and generalisations are a dangerous thing. This is precisely why (some) accountants and the man in the pub can be dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman Steve Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions/concerns. I'm not £300 an hour on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taunton-hobbit Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 If anything was ever calculated to make me NOT sell from my individual on-line site, this hits the spot. It's a gift to Amazon, Bandcamp, EBay et al, who are now going to have a mass of sellers effectively forced to use their already overpriced services....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smaz Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 [quote name='Bassman Steve' timestamp='1420226065' post='2646975'] Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions/concerns. I'm not £300 an hour on here. [/quote] All basschat members get a 10% discount... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman Steve Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 True to an extent but you can now claim back the VAT they charge you - from Ireland or wherever. I accept it's a pain but in 6 months it'll be second nature and you might benefit. Trust me :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman Steve Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 [quote name='smaz' timestamp='1420226516' post='2646980'] All basschat members get a 10% discount... [/quote] Humour, I like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ras52 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 What about selling downloads through iTunes, Amazon, etc? I think the reason the spotlight is on Bandcamp is because they've come forward with ways to provide their sellers the info they need for compliance... but will Apple and Amazon do the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman Steve Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) I don't know the answer specifically but it will turn on who is making the sale. If you sell to Amazon and they sell on then the sale is theirs. If you sell to Amazon in Ireland (or wherever) then your sale is in Ireland and you can register if you want but don't have to. These changes relate to sales from a business to a consumer, not a business to another business. Edited January 2, 2015 by Bassman Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smaz Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I haven't read the info on the law, but is it not possible to sell as a consumer? I'm guessing not, but thinking of selling on ebay for example - that's consumer to consumer, although probably because ebay is involved means it's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taunton-hobbit Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I'm guessing that EBay technically makes the sale on your behalf, a sort of 'agency' thing - where that leaves you if you make an 'informal' deal off the Bay with a foreign purchaser, I dread to think............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman Steve Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 You need to be careful here because VAT only applies on business sales but the definition of business is wide and doesn't mean you have to make a profit so that's no 'defence'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman Steve Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 HMRC have issued a new flowchart to help determine whether you are affected or not. It's here [url="https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/390300/VAT_MOSS_Flow_chart.pdf"]https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/390300/VAT_MOSS_Flow_chart.pdf[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ras52 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 [quote name='Bassman Steve' timestamp='1421657893' post='2663560'] HMRC have issued a new flowchart to help determine whether you are affected or not. It's here [url="https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/390300/VAT_MOSS_Flow_chart.pdf"]https://www.gov.uk/g..._Flow_chart.pdf[/url] [/quote] Nice, that's not looking so scary now, thanks for posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Seems like the path "Do you only sell your e services through a third party platform or marketplace? (For example not through your own website?)" is the universal get out for most small enterprise - just keep it on bandcamp/bigcartel/whatever and let them worry about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 [quote name='taunton-hobbit' timestamp='1420226269' post='2646978'] If anything was ever calculated to make me NOT sell from my individual on-line site, this hits the spot. It's a gift to Amazon, Bandcamp, EBay et al, who are now going to have a mass of sellers effectively forced to use their already overpriced services....... [/quote] +1000 The EU is all about big business. It's no solution for people to say sell through Amazon if Amazon is the predator you're trying to get away from by selling on your own site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 But without Amazon, iTunes for your digital tracks etc. you are stuck in an indie ghetto. The people you want to reach if you aspire to sell if any meaningful quantities will only buy from the big well-known digital distributors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 [quote name='Bassman Steve' timestamp='1420223613' post='2646912'] I can speak with a little authority (as an ex VAT man). It sounds like a pain now but a guy who can handle a digital studio will not have any trouble with an Excel spreadsheet. Also, if you are not VAT registered you are forking out VAT on a whole load of things. When first registered, you can claim back the VAT on any goods you have on hand when you register - going back 4 years. You're not going to change it so why no consider the advantages of being VAT registered. I'll give answers happily, when I am certain of the facts. Do not ever make the huge mistake of listening to the man in the pub ad forming your opinions on that basis. [/quote] Sorry but this is C**p. Ever tried tried running a small business and managing VAT? Thought not. Ever tried it managing VAT for half a dozen rates and countries as they're proposing? And there's VIES as well. I know many people who have deliberately kept their businesses under the VAT threshold and I don't blame them, even though it costs jobs. I know other people who have stayed in the black economy because of it. And that's with a system vastly less complicated than the one now proposed. VAT is a cobbled together piece of nonsense as a tax as it is. It's one great big reason fro being employed by somebody else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1421665602' post='2663664'] But without Amazon, iTunes for your digital tracks etc. you are stuck in an indie ghetto. The people you want to reach if you aspire to sell if any meaningful quantities will only buy from the big well-known digital distributors. [/quote] That's a choice you should be able to make on marketing grounds rather than being forced into it. In the book busness, many writers and small publishers are selling direct because of Amazon's supermarket-like pricing and promotions policies. They're on the way to becoming a monopoly for ebooks for example. One more disincentive for anybody to bother running a business. Don't you just love the EU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman Steve Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 [quote name='fatback' timestamp='1421665869' post='2663670'] Sorry but this is C**p. Ever tried tried running a small business and managing VAT? Thought not. Ever tried it managing VAT for half a dozen rates and countries as they're proposing? And there's VIES as well. I know many people who have deliberately kept their businesses under the VAT threshold and I don't blame them, even though it costs jobs. I know other people who have stayed in the black economy because of it. And that's with a system vastly less complicated than the one now proposed. VAT is a cobbled together piece of nonsense as a tax as it is. It's one great big reason fro being employed by somebody else. [/quote] Thought not, did you say? I actually manage VAT for the UK's largest mobile phone company - operating in most countries in the world. Yours is a fairly typical rsponse from someone who's happy to take all the profits of a business but not prepared to do the necessary (and legal) graft also required. It's not difficult after a couple of times and could be to your advantage in some circumstances. Please don't spout your nonsense in the pub, you create all sorts of difficulties for the people you influence with your 'insight'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I'm a tax resident of two countries at the moment (NZ IRD are hanging on for grim death to any kiwis who leave to work overseas) and get hit at whatever the highest rate is (NZ at the moment). Charging VAT on where the purchaser is located seems to be an auditing minefield. How would either HMRC or the seller prove that the location used for calculating VAT was correct...? Also, given the purchaser will have their own tax residency and VAT/sales tax registration status, how does caliming back the VAT work out if the country they purchase in is different to the country they're registered for sales tax in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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