Fender (well, Squier) factory shim?- (JV Precision) UPDATE- Truss rod now out.

[cameltoe]

In fact my shim is just a piece of paper. Not thick like card, but not thin like printer paper, more envelope thickness. Can't imagine this would make a huge difference to anything.

[Dad3353]

Shimming is also standard procedure in nut fitting, especially on guitar locking nuts, and also bridges on acoustic guitars. If it does affect the sound in any slight way, it's not necessarily detrimental, anyway. Wholesale transmission of all frequencies is not, in itself, a guarantee of 'good', musical sound. It's pot luck in that respect.
Not that my ears have ever been able to detect such nuances, anyway...
Just sayin'...

Edited January 8, 2014 by Dad3353

[Dingus]

A lot of very expensive high-end basses have shims. Wal, Music Man, and most vintage Fenders all have them more often than not. Sadowsky use them when necessary , as do countless other makers.

You won't hear any real perceivable difference in the tone of a correctly shimmed bass, but you will notice a huge improvement in the playability if the job has been done properly. Shimming is just another legitimate technique in the guitar making process, and a lot of basses are shimmed and nobody knows it. Especially on a Fender-style bass , it really is nothing to get worked up about.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Dingus

[Dingus]

[quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1389127186' post='2330457']
That's awesome, thanks- I will give him a shout.



Yes that's gone through my mind a lot- I'm going to pursue repair for a while until I have a rock-solid diagnosis and price and will then have to make a decision accordingly.

i'm going to start a thread on the repair section, as I've been googling a lot regarding the construction of these early truss rods, and from what I can tell, the truss rod would have been inserted at the headstock end, with the truss anchor held in place under the walnut plug. If the truss can be removed from here and a new one inserted, it would be the best outcome I could hope for.
[/quote]

A skilled luthier can whip off the fingerboard and access the rod with no problem, if necessary. This is , however, usually a pretty expensive job, as are most truss rod replacement scenarios, in my limited experience of these matters. You may have to make the decision over whether this bass is worth sinking a few hundred quid into in order to fix , I am sorry to say. I will keep my fingers crossed you get a better-than-expected diagnosis from the repairman.

[cameltoe]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1389190036' post='2331081']


A skilled luthier can whip off the fingerboard and access the rod with no problem, if necessary. This is , however, usually a pretty expensive job, as are most truss rod replacement scenarios, in my limited experience of these matters. You may have to make the decision over whether this bass is worth sinking a few hundred quid into in order to fix , I am sorry to say. I will keep my fingers crossed you get a better-than-expected diagnosis from the repairman.
[/quote]

It's a one- piece neck, so no seperate fingerboard.

Truss rod may be able to exit the way it went in, through the walnut dowel on the headstock.

[Dingus]

[quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1389208606' post='2331444']
It's a one- piece neck, so no seperate fingerboard.

Truss rod may be able to exit the way it went in, through the walnut dowel on the headstock.
[/quote]

Ah, that is a bit unusual on a budget bass.

This is, at best, going to be a pain in the arse to repair for someone. Fingerboards are usually stuck on with animal glue that comes unstuck under heat lamps and with steam. Hopefully the headstock plug is stuck in the same way but it might be a bit harder to get out and then access the truss rod . Get it a good luthier and see what they say, but you are probably talking hundreds of quid to fix this, I'm sorry to say. I really hope I am wrong about that though. .

Edited January 8, 2014 by Dingus

[cameltoe]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1389210219' post='2331470']
Ah, that is a bit unusual on a budget bass.

This is, at best, going to be a pain in the arse to repair for someone. Fingerboards are usually stuck on with animal glue that comes unstuck under heat lamps and with steam. Hopefully the headstock plug is stuck in the same way but it might be a bit harder to get out and then access the truss rod . Get it a good luthier and see what they say, but you are probably talking hundreds of quid to fix this, I'm sorry to say. I really hope I am wrong about that though. .
[/quote]

Yup, but the JV's were built to pre-CBS specs, so in theory the same as a real '57 in regards to basic construction.

I've contacted Graham Parker, as it looks like he has the stewmac kit as Howie mentioned above. Here's hoping!

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1389210219' post='2331470']
Ah, that is a bit unusual on a budget bass.
[/quote]
I hope that you're wearing your tin helmet Dingus. I can just see al the JV fan club members firing off emails to each other right now.

You're right though about it being a budget bass.

[cameltoe]

Budget or no budget it's still better than USA precisions I've owned- although it's not been playable long enough to really get to know it!

Thanks for the trolling though!

Edited January 8, 2014 by cameltoe

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1389214504' post='2331559']
Budget or no budget it's still better than USA precisions I've owned- although it's not been playable long enough to really get to know it!

Thanks for the trolling though!
[/quote]
No need to be so touchy.

These were budget basses in their day.

[Dingus]

May I interject , hopefully in the cause of peace of harmony, that you are both right.

These were indeed budget basses, but very special ones. I know because I had both a JV Precision and Jazz back when they were current models , and thirty years ago this very evening I would have been twanging away on one of them along to my favourite records in my bedroom never for a moment suspecting that one day decades in the future I would be reminiscing about it for your benefit as a middle aged man with a belly who has sacrificed his dreams of stardom on the alter of compromise .

Those JV Squiers were( and doubtless still are) very nice basses , but they were relatively inexpensive budget guitars , that is an undeniable fact. But this is well-trodden ground on Basschat, and ultimately if Cameltoe or anyone else wants a JV Squier then that is fair enough , and they are certainly very enjoyable basses to play on every level. I'm sure we are all keeping our fingers crossed the Cameltoe gets a better-than-expected outcome in all of this, one way or another.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Dingus

[Grangur]

It's funny much of this thread has moved on to the matter of the shim. After all, shimmed or not, that's not the cause of Cameltoe's problem.

As wood moves over time - that's to say it swells, shinks, bends etc, it's not unreasonable that after a period, any instrument constructed of wood may need a shim to make up for the changes. At the beginning, however, I seem to remember reading that this shim was claimed to be "factory fitted". I'm with Fionn on this, there's no way I'd be happy to buy a brand-new-out-of-the-box bass and find it's got shimms to make up for poor build quality.

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1389252928' post='2331834']
It's funny much of this thread has moved on to the matter of the shim.
[/quote]
It's what happens on forums that's all.

Just like most conversations we have whether at work or down the pub all conversations move on.

[cameltoe]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1389219081' post='2331638']

No need to be so touchy.

These were budget basses in their day.
[/quote]

Who's touchy? I'm not!

I understand they were conceived as the budget line to the American fenders, to enable Fender to take on the cheaper but very well made Tokai's. Made to a price point that I've seen argued as anywhere from 1/2 to 2/3 what the US models were retailing at. That's not important to me- I traded a Silver Series Jazz against this that had one of the nicest necks I've played.

Budget or not it's how it feels in your hands. My MIM Road Worn is essentially a budget version of what the custom shop puts out, but I defy anybody not to be blown away by that bass.

I'm just hopeful I can sort it out, and get it playing again.

[gjones]

[quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1388929886' post='2327698']
Right guys, I've taken your advice and tried to straighten out the truss rod a bit more. It looked fairly good before, but I thought I would see if I could get the neck a touch straighter.

The truss was very tight to move, 1/4 turn then left a few hours to settle made no discernible difference to relief, so I tried again with 1/2 turn. Left overnight, no difference. Both times it appeared to have moved ok on retuning, but when settled had returned to as it was before. Tried one more 1/2 turn, left to settle, same result.

Removed the neck fully last night, released the truss nut completely and greased, re-tightened truss again and it snapped. Seriously. It's sheared off right under the truss nut.

Holy f***

If someone has any helpful advice right now, or just an optomistic comment I'd love to hear it as I'm feeling this could be damage beyond repair and I've just destroyed my new bass.

I can't believe it.
[/quote]

I have an original Mighty Mite Precision maple neck on my Precision. It was manufactured in the early 80s when Mighty Mite first started make replacement parts for Fender basses and guitars. The truss rod on this neck sounds a bit like yours, in that although you can adjust it, it doesn't change the relief as far as I can tell. So in order to get a decent action on it I inserted a shim in the neck pocket (a cut up plastic morrisons loyalty card if you must know). This raised the angle of the neck sufficiently to adjust the action via the bridge. I now have a very nice neck, with a decent and playable low action.

The point I'm so long windededly trying to make is, have you refitted the neck to the body and restrung it? From what you've said, adjusting the truss rod didn't make much of a difference, but even so the action was pretty good. If you haven't already, I recommend refitting the neck, restringing the bass and seeing what damage has been done. You may find that, although you've damaged the truss rod, if it wasn't having much effect on the neck relief when you were adjusting it, the neck may still be playable. If it is playable but you need to adjust the action, do what I did and insert shims of various thicknesses until you can adjust the action, via the bridge, to your satisfaction.

Good luck.

Edit: a quick google comes up with this. This guys neck stayed playable for quite a while without a shim. Maybe all is not lost. [url="http://www.carvinbbs.com/viewtopic.php?p=30839&sid=ef4228680c3b8d7e6c76d0162ac89d8e"]http://www.carvinbbs...c76d0162ac89d8e[/url]

Edited January 17, 2014 by gjones

[matski]

Depending on your intentions as to this bass - whether it's a keeper as opposed to something you intend to move on in the future - you might consider putting the word out in the Items Wanted section of the forum for a neck.

I have a JV - well it was originally a JV, now it's a bitsa as so many parts have been replaced over time - and I also had a shagged neck on it: defretted and then refretted badly so that there was fret buzz all over the place, could never get a decent relief or action set up on it, and to top it all off there was an almighty twist in the neck. Basically completely unrepairable.

However thanks to the aforementioned Items Wanted section, I managed to get my mitts on a replacement early 80s Japanese '57 Precision neck. Ok, it's not a real JV neck, but it works! For reference, it cost me £100.

[BigAl]

I have a JV Precision hanging on my wall with a broken truss as well!
I got it like that cheap and don't really need it so haven't done anything to fix it.

I would suggest that if the truss doesn't seem to be straightening the neck out enough that it has bottomed out.
Anyone else having this problem should check the http://basschat.co.uk/topic/97682-truss-rod-maxxd-out/page__view__getnewpost thread.

[cameltoe]

Right guys, well I posted the neck away to Graham Parker, who had one of the stewmac truss rod rescue kits. Unfortuntely, it was not able to work. It cut the new thread just fine, but the thread stripped every time he attempted to fit the nut. He could only attribute this to very poor steel.

Graham very kindly did not charge me at all for this, which I think is beyond fantastic service, and I will be giving him exceptionally good feedback on the luthiers corner section.

I've received the neck back, and determined not to give up, this afternoon I attempted to remove the truss myself.

I used a fine paint scraper to remove the thick poly from the walnut plug on the headstock, and then attempted to steam the plug to loosen the glue, and hopefully remove it. This didn't work, and almost caused a fire in my kitchen, so plan B was to drill the walnut plug out.

I drilled slowly, and used a very thin flat-head screwdriver as a make shift chisel to remove material. When I thought I had removed enough, and could see the truss anchor, I used a 3/16" nail punch to hammer the truss rod out from the heel end. It started to pop out, and needed a bit of persuasion with a pair of molegrips, but eventually I got the whole thing out through the headstock, with the skunk stripe intact.

The only collateral damage so far is the walnut plug, a couple of small scratches to the headstock finish, and the deeper hole in the heel end that Graham had to drill to tap the new thread.

I have looked everywhere for a replacement, and can't find one anywhere. Stewmac have the replacement for the 2-piece neck (square anchor) and the heel anchor, headstock adjustment truss, but not the round-anchor type that I have. Allparts UK sell the round-anchor vintage type for guitar, but not for bass! I cannot reuse my anchor as it has welded itself to the truss and cannot be removed.

Currently waiting to see if Allparts can supply the kit i need for bass, if not I will have to DIY the replacement truss.

Hopefully the hardest part is over and I will be able to salvage this neck.

[gjones]

[quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1391206261' post='2354683']
Right guys, well I posted the neck away to Graham Parker, who had one of the stewmac truss rod rescue kits. Unfortuntely, it was not able to work. It cut the new thread just fine, but the thread stripped every time he attempted to fit the nut. He could only attribute this to very poor steel.

Graham very kindly did not charge me at all for this, which I think is beyond fantastic service, and I will be giving him exceptionally good feedback on the luthiers corner section.

I've received the neck back, and determined not to give up, this afternoon I attempted to remove the truss myself.

I used a fine paint scraper to remove the thick poly from the walnut plug on the headstock, and then attempted to steam the plug to loosen the glue, and hopefully remove it. This didn't work, and almost caused a fire in my kitchen, so plan B was to drill the walnut plug out.

I drilled slowly, and used a very thin flat-head screwdriver as a make shift chisel to remove material. When I thought I had removed enough, and could see the truss anchor, I used a 3/16" nail punch to hammer the truss rod out from the heel end. It started to pop out, and needed a bit of persuasion with a pair of molegrips, but eventually I got the whole thing out through the headstock, with the skunk stripe intact.

The only collateral damage so far is the walnut plug, a couple of small scratches to the headstock finish, and the deeper hole in the heel end that Graham had to drill to tap the new thread.

I have looked everywhere for a replacement, and can't find one anywhere. Stewmac have the replacement for the 2-piece neck (square anchor) and the heel anchor, headstock adjustment truss, but not the round-anchor type that I have. Allparts UK sell the round-anchor vintage type for guitar, but not for bass! I cannot reuse my anchor as it has welded itself to the truss and cannot be removed.

Currently waiting to see if Allparts can supply the kit i need for bass, if not I will have to DIY the replacement truss.

Hopefully the hardest part is over and I will be able to salvage this neck.
[/quote]

Respect!

And good luck on your search.

Edited January 31, 2014 by gjones

[Bassman Sam]

That's some tough luck, I hope it works out for you after all the trouble you've had.

[Roland Rock]

Nice one Graham Parker, what a gent.

Well done getting it out with minimal damage, and good luck with the search.

[Grangur]

Sounds to me like it's going well so far. Well done. Good luck with the next stage.

[njr911]

Proper DIY !

[thebuckets]

No way of swapping it round so the adjustment is at the neck end? Hex adjustment where the plug was like the later squires saves taking the neck off to adjust