pete.young Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 (edited) Since Hamster locked his thread, lets kick off discussion here. My view is that restricting replies to Wanted ads will be counter productive. People will simply reply in PM instead, mods will lose visibility of who is trying to circumvent the rules, and it will prevent the kind of interesting discussion around alternatives that frequently breaks out following these threads. Also, it penalises those of us who have paid to advertise items on the site, and prevents anyone posting a link to an item legitimately advertised in the 'For Sale' forums. Please reconsider. Edited October 8, 2013 by pete.young Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 (edited) But if people are forced to reply via PM, then at least their 'ad' won't be seen by everyone else, thus reducing its effectiveness. Edited October 8, 2013 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1381221301' post='2235840'] But if people are forced to reply via PM, then at least their 'ad' won't be seen by everyone else, thus reducing its effectiveness. [/quote] That's the general idea. This change is for a trial period to see if it's effective, if it is then it'll remain, if it's not then other alternatives will be considered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted October 8, 2013 Author Share Posted October 8, 2013 (edited) Effective, in what way? What are you going to measure, and how are you going to measure it? It's going to be 100% effective in stopping anyone posting replies in the Wanted forum. People have already started posting quasi - for - sale ads in other forums, there was one in General Discussion this morning. Its impossible to completely eradicate. If you want to completely stamp this out, you'll need to stop anyone replying to any postings in any of the forums. Seems to me that you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. For the very small volume of people posting 'ads' in the Wanted section, you are taking away a whole load of useful functionality that paying contributors to the site are going to miss out on. Edited October 8, 2013 by pete.young Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badass Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Here here ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 [quote name='pete.young' timestamp='1381253236' post='2236535'] Effective, in what way? What are you going to measure, and how are you going to measure it? It's going to be 100% effective in stopping anyone posting replies in the Wanted forum. People have already started posting quasi - for - sale ads in other forums, there was one in General Discussion this morning. Its impossible to completely eradicate. If you want to completely stamp this out, you'll need to stop anyone replying to any postings in any of the forums. Seems to me that you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. For the very small volume of people posting 'ads' in the Wanted section, you are taking away a whole load of useful functionality that paying contributors to the site are going to miss out on. [/quote] Well, you're entitled to your opinions, but we are where we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted October 23, 2013 Author Share Posted October 23, 2013 Another problem with the way this has been implemented: normal users can't reply to posts, even to their own posts. So no bumping. Except that mods are allowed to reply to posts. Including thier own posts. So no bumping, except for mods. That doesn't seem fair or equitable . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 [quote name='pete.young' timestamp='1382561415' post='2253800'] So no bumping, except for mods. That doesn't seem fair or equitable . [/quote] I have found the solitary 'bump' in question and removed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 What are the new rules regarding restricting replies to wanted ads? I must have missed it, but I have noticed less wanted ads lately - is that the reason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 [quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1382564894' post='2253860'] What are the new rules regarding restricting replies to wanted ads? [/quote] http://basschat.co.uk/topic/219087-items-wanted-restriction-on-posting-replies/ [quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1382564894' post='2253860'] I must have missed it, but I have noticed less wanted ads lately - is that the reason? [/quote] I very much doubt it will have affected the number of legitimate 'Wanted' ads but it will have had an impact on those trying to bypass the Marketplace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Thanks, now I understand. I hadn't realised people were posting illegitimate wanted ads - cheeky beggars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 What proportion of ads are dodgy though? If there's moderators here, let them moderate the dodgy posts and leave the legit ones alone. Seems like a sledgehammer/nut scenario. Locking replies is pants, IMHO... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 [quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1382905986' post='2257922'] If there's moderators here, let them moderate the dodgy posts and leave the legit ones alone. [/quote] You really think we didn't try that first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 What is an illegitimate wanted ad and how can you tell the difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 The prolific offenders range from people offering an entire list of items through to people offering items that weren't even listed as wanted. Before anyone tells me that there aren't any ads like that, we've spent days removing them. By not having a reply option the 'offers' have to be sent via PM, thus removing the audience for those seeking to get a free advert at the expense of everyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Were these offenders advertising their items on other people's wanted ads, or were they posting their own wanted ads containing their items for sale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 A mixture, predominantly the former though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Thanks for the explanation. I hadn't really understood the problem and I'm still surprised that anyone would post a wanted ad containing their own items for sale. I presume it was mostly not [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]illegitimate wanted ads as much as [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]illegitimate posts on wanted ads that were the problem because it allowed sellers to advertise their items to people other than the OP.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]If you had an item for sale and didn't want to pay the fee, you could keep browsing the wanted ads to save you posting and paying for a for sale ad.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]You can still do that, but your item will [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]only be seen by the OP and [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]not be shown publicly.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]The solution is understandable in the circumstances.[/font][/color] Sellers can still mention their items in other people's general topics and I have seen posts such as "What is the value of my bass" etc. Are these infringements against site rules too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 The inability to bump your own wanted ad makes the section pretty useless. Que people putting up new ads every time instead, as has already started to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 [quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1382962388' post='2258410'] The inability to bump your own wanted ad makes the section pretty useless. Que people putting up new ads every time instead, as has already started to happen. [/quote] I didn't think about that - what a PITA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 [quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1382962388' post='2258410'] The inability to bump your own wanted ad makes the section pretty useless. Que people putting up new ads every time instead, as has already started to happen. [/quote] Well as I have previously said, the Moderation team will assess how effective this change has been at some point, but until we can spend some time doing that, this is just how things are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 [quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1382957764' post='2258341'] Sellers can still mention their items in other people's general topics and I have seen posts such as "What is the value of my bass" etc. Are these infringements against site rules too? [/quote] We're looking at these sort of topics on a case by case basis. It really depends on intent. Provided we are convinced that there is no intention to circumvent the Marketplace T&Cs then we're obviously happy to let these run. If we feel that the thread is being used to circumvent the T&Cs then we will intervene as necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 (edited) I think nearly all decisions by BC over the years have been very good, even many that didn't appear so at first sight. This however is possibly the exception that's going to prove the rule (or start a new trend towards poor decisions?). IMO the FS forums will never be a watertight revenue generator, certainly not with the current membership model and what I assume is a relatively low capital base. If we try to make it one, the baby could well go out with the bathwater. Hope none of the mods/owners take this personally as they all do a great job and it's not easy. The topic under discussion is a small issue but one that, if it's a sign that there might be similar decisions on the way, could put off a lot of members and send folks back to eBay for their buying and selling, despite the high levels of crapness there. Like it or not, the FS forums are the life blood of this place. Thinking out aloud, could the reply function in Items Wanted be restricted to folks who've paid the annual fee to advertise in FS already? Edited October 28, 2013 by Beedster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 It's not a 'sign of similar decisions'. When we bought in the new Marketplace format we left several forums floating in limbo - 'Items Wanted' was one of them. We always knew that we were going to have to do 'something' with it, but it was decided to put it on the back burner for a while and progress things like 'Basschat Mobile' which a large number of people had been asking for. If it hadn't been for the noticeably large number of people misusing the forum we wouldn't have been put in a position to have to make the decision we did. That decision was based on the tools we had to hand and not as a final concrete solution to the problem. It's sometimes easy to forget that forum software doesn't come with built in facilities for 'Marketplaces' - there is no magic 'button' that makes it all happen, it has to be developed from scratch and that takes some time. Once we've had a chance to study the situation in some detail, we'll hopefully be in a position to look at some less restrictive solutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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