Dunlop Bass Wah 105Q - tone sucking? Alternative?

[mcnach]

Last night I realised something that I'm a little ashamed to admit I had not noticed until now, and I have owned this pedal for maybe three years!

I only use it with the RATM tribute band, which is not all that active, but still.

So, last night I had rehearsal with another band, and I was in a hurry so I picked the pedalboard I used for RATM last weekend, when I only wanted the tuner and compressor, and rushed to the rehearsal room. As I arrived a few minutes late, they were already jamming and I liked what I heard, so I just placed my amp in the usual spot (Markbass CMD121P combo), took out my bass (Jazz with J-Retro), and plugged it in straight. It was pretty much in tune, so I actually continued like that for the first half of the rehearsal after adjusting tuning on the go.

It sounded good.

Nothing unusual, as this is the usual setup with this band. Ok, I was missing the compressor, but it's not critical.

After the break, I plugged in through the full pedalboard:

Korg Pitchblack -> Bass Wah 105Q -> Darkglass Vintage Overdrive -> Danelectro Transparent Overdrive -> EHX Small Stone phaser -> EBS Multicomp -> Thumpinator -> amp.

Suddenly, I was not liking what I was hearing. It was pretty muddy, I thought. I assumed one or all of the three guitarists had changed settings drastically and used the J Retro to adjust and find my spot. It helped, but it was not right.
Then I thought: I'll bypass all pedals except the Thumpinator.

What a change! It sounded great again.

Hmmm.

So, in the end, I found that the Bass Wah was the culprit (simply eliminating it from the chain things improved a lot).

My overdrive pedals sounded a LOT better too. I had been saying that "I don't theink the ERA knob on the Darkglass does all that much, in my opinion". Well, it does. The pedal sounds much better once I remove the Bass wah too.

What a big eye opener.

For RATM I always managed to get a decent sound, using my Stingray... but all my messing about trying different overdrives etc... I wonder how many pedals that I discarded I might have kept (and stop searching) had I tried them alone, not on the pedalboard!
(I have bought today an Aguilar Agro which will replace the Danelectro, much better pedal)

So... now this puts me in a complicated position. On the one hand, the existing setup works. I was not in love with it, but it works with the RATM band. However, I have now experienced how much better I can sound without the Wah... But I do need a wah that does what the 105Q does: adjustable level and it switches on when stepping on it. I guess I could live without the "automatic on" function.

Any recommendations?

Why does the 105Q affect the sound so much when not engaged?
I don't imagine there's any mod that can be done to it to cure this...

EDIT: in the end I went for the AMT bass wah, see below.

Edited October 15, 2013 by mcnach

[Mog]

Get your wah check out. Mine imparts little if any colouration when its not being used.

[mcnach]

I doubt it's faulty. A google search reveals I'm not the first to complain about it... but it does appear that the effect (muddiness) it produces depends on what else you use with it and what your particular sound is like.

As I said, it was not obvious at all to me... until it became obvious in a particular combination. It's hard to explain. I have used it for a while with the RATM band and I didn't have a reason to complain. I never tried the combination of pedals without the wah either, but I guess I found a way to make it work.
The other night, with the Jazz, it was very obvious... because I started out with no effects at all, and then I plugged in the pedalboard with all pedals switched off except the compressor (and the Thumpinator which is always on). Another day I would have just dialled my sound differently to make it work, and I might have asked one of the guitarists who was particularly bassy that night to turn down the bass, and get on with it. Instead, I had the idea to try bypassing pedals. When it came to the wah, the effect was noticeable immediately. Perhaps your usual punter at a pub gig might not hear a thing, or my girlfriend, who things all basses sound pretty much the same even when I demonstrate it but it was a clear difference that allowed me to fit in much better.
Last night I started experimenting with my distortion pedals, with and without the switched off wah in the chain, and again it makes a difference. It is not big in magnitude but it's big qualitatively. The distortion pedals become clearer, with better definition, and the "Era" knob in my Darkglass Vintage Overdrive suddenly has a clear effect, whilst before I felt it barely did anything.

It may be that the colouration (I'd best describe it like throwing a sheet over your speaker) the wah imparts does not interfere much with your particular sound.

Until two days ago, I would have sworn that my wah did not affect noticeably my bass sound.

[Ghost_Bass]

Isn't the EBS (stanley clark if i'm not mistaken) also switchable by placing the foot on top? I also think it's true bypass so it won't suck tone. I'm out for a little investigation...

[Ghost_Bass]

Ok... theEBS SC is in fact truebypass but operates with a switch:
[url="http://www.bass.se/2009/stanwah.htm"]http://www.bass.se/2009/stanwah.htm[/url]

[Ghost_Bass]

I think you won't find a truebypass wah that turns on on pressing, the SPDT is needed for that. Maybe a cheap alternative could be a loop pedal to remove the 105Q from the chain when not in use... this if you like the sound of the 105Q and want to retain that sound.

[mcnach]

I'm alright with losing the "automatically switch on" function, to be honest. It must have a level control, 'though. Any other controls are a bonus.
True bypass or buffered... I have no particular preference, if the buffer is good and does not appear to affect the overall sound like the Dunlop does.

That EBS looks like a good candidate! Thanks!

[dannybuoy]

The G-Lab Bass Wowee Wah is pressure activated and true bypass:

http://www.glab.com.pl/bass_wowee-wah_en

They also make a true bypass pressure activated pad for wahs:

http://www.glab.com.pl/true_bypass_wah-pad_en

You don't need a chunky 3PDT switch for true bypass, these use relay switching instead.

Edited October 4, 2013 by dannybuoy

[dudewheresmybass]

The weeping demon by ibanez is both switchable and pressure activated.
There is tons of adjustment available, and no bass loss. I've been using mine for about 9 years.
It's one of the few pedals I haven't been tempted to change over the years

[mcnach]

[quote name='dudewheresmybass' timestamp='1380923299' post='2232594']
The weeping demon by ibanez is both switchable and pressure activated.
There is tons of adjustment available, and no bass loss. I've been using mine for about 9 years.
It's one of the few pedals I haven't been tempted to change over the years
[/quote]

I had that pedal a while ago too. I did think that it sounded a bit better than the Dunlop 105Q, but there was a delay in switching on or off, I can't recall, which I did not like, so I sold it and kept the 105Q. I know the WD has an adjustable delay, but even at the shortest setting the delay was noticeable to me, whilst the 105Q was more immediate.
It is a good pedal, 'though. It has a 2-band EQ, doesn't it? That is a very good addition. I don't know whether it was better than the 105Q at "tone sucking" since I didn't even notice the 105Q had this effect at the time.

[mcnach]

Any idea what's the practical differences between the EBS Wah One and the Stanley Clark model? The Stanley Clark is a LOT more expensive, but I'm not quite sure, on paper, that the functions it has make it so much better than the Wah One... Frequency range is different, larger on the SC model, it seems...

[mcnach]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1380906502' post='2232331']
The G-Lab Bass Wowee Wah is pressure activated and true bypass:

[url="http://www.glab.com.pl/bass_wowee-wah_en"]http://www.glab.com....ss_wowee-wah_en[/url]

They also make a true bypass pressure activated pad for wahs:

[url="http://www.glab.com.pl/true_bypass_wah-pad_en"]http://www.glab.com....pass_wah-pad_en[/url]

You don't need a chunky 3PDT switch for true bypass, these use relay switching instead.
[/quote]

That's interesting! Thanks!

[dudewheresmybass]

The delay in switching off is controlled by a pot underneath the footplate. You can leave it to stay on for a couple of seconds or switch off immediately.
It has a level, bass, and q control.
I've certainly never had an issue with tone suck with it. Most likely that's why the demon gets used over te 105 which sits in its box

Edited October 5, 2013 by dudewheresmybass

[mcnach]

[quote name='dudewheresmybass' timestamp='1380959670' post='2232739']
The delay in switching off is controlled by a pot underneath the footplate. You can leave it to stay on for a couple of seconds or switch off immediately.
It has a level, bass, and q control.
I've certainly never had an issue with tone suck with it. Most likely that's why the demon gets used over te 105 which sits in its box
[/quote]

I didn't feel the "switch off immediately" was immediate enough... I think. I don't recall what it was exactly, it's been a while. I do recall it sounded nicer than the 105Q but there was something else that turned into a deal breaker for me. I wish I remembered!

The EBS Stanley Clark seems great. But... ouch, the price. For something I don't use a lot, it's quite a lot of dough.

[danny-79]

[b]Just been an checked mine out (105Q), in its chain and by its self, with both StingRay's and The Jazz, and through two different amps, there is a slight noticeable difference (more so with the Jazz (MIA Deluxe) than the Ray). With it in any configuration there always will be a slight difference with any effect in your chain compared to a dry lead, My favoured running order for my current set up is: Tuner - Overdrive - 105Q - Chorus - Amp (slimed it down a bit) Will take it to practice tonight and get some volume on it, not that i haven't before, be definitely worth getting it checked out though, faulty volume/Q pot maby ? Love the look of the Stanley Clarke but at that price it should blend in seamlessly ! Will post back later [/b]

[Ghost_Bass]

And what about one of those Morley thingies? A lot of bass players have been trading their 150Qs for them.

[dannybuoy]

The difference would probably be far more noticeable with a passive bass I reckon.

[Valhalalf]

I've been thinking about one of these so your post got my searching for similiar threads and issues. There is a lot of people unhappy with the same problem of the pedal not being a true bypass but loving the pedal sound itself and looking for a mod.

This ended up throwing up this link for a pressure sensitve true bypass pedal plate [url="http://www.glab.com.pl/true_bypass_wah-pad_en"]http://www.glab.com....pass_wah-pad_en[/url]

Which it appears you can get from Thomann [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/g_lab_tbwp_true_bypass_wah_pad.htm"]http://www.thomann.d...ass_wah_pad.htm[/url]

And this guy does a good job of demonstrating

[media]http://youtu.be/M7QL37nKcR0[/media]

Very interesting, especially as you could mod the 105Q to ditch the spring and be on all the time and let the plate control when it's engaged.

Edited October 7, 2013 by Valhalalf

[pete.young]

According to this:

http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/tstech/tsxtech.htm

if the tone-suck is caused by the wah pedal having too low an impedance ,and consequently loading the pickups, one mod that might fix the problem is to add a tube screamer input buffer circuit. I've no idea whether this would work for your particular pedal, but at the cost of a few components it might be worth a punt to see if you can avoid major expense involved in buying a new pedal.

Or as someone else said, stick it into a bypass loop, these are cheap enough.

[uncle psychosis]

Jose have you seen the Chi-Wah-Wah? Its not cheap but its tiny...

[url="http://www.musicradar.com/reviews/bass/plutoneium-pu-236-chi-wah-wah-bass-530569"]http://www.musicradar.com/reviews/bass/plutoneium-pu-236-chi-wah-wah-bass-530569[/url]

Has level, Q, gain, and switchless bypass.

Or, as a much cheaper alternative, I have an old battered crybaby wah kicking around. If you wanted to try it out (I'm thinking it could be a good base to build your own one) you can have it in return for helping me set up a bass The treadle is a bit loose but it does work OK.

[mcnach]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1381227241' post='2235946'] Jose have you seen the Chi-Wah-Wah? Its not cheap but its tiny... [url="http://www.musicradar.com/reviews/bass/plutoneium-pu-236-chi-wah-wah-bass-530569"]http://www.musicradar.com/reviews/bass/plutoneium-pu-236-chi-wah-wah-bass-530569[/url] Has level, Q, gain, and switchless bypass. Or, as a much cheaper alternative, I have an old battered crybaby wah kicking around. If you wanted to try it out (I'm thinking it could be a good base to build your own one) you can have it in return for helping me set up a bass The treadle is a bit loose but it does work OK. [/quote]


Chi-wah-wah
I already like it, just for the name!

And it's tiny indeed, one of the reasons I don't use the wah much and keep it in a separate board.

Ha! Thanks, I would not really think of another wah if I could solve the bypass thing on mine. Yours would be similar, I suspect.
But I can try to help you set up your bass anyway, if you want. But I have to warn you, whenever it gets to "I think the frets need some work" I always take it to Rory Dowling, luthier and owner of Taran Guitars who abandoned Edinburgh for a farm in Pittenweem... he is really good, a great guy, and not expensive at all. In fact, I was thinking of visiting him probably in November, if interested we could go to see him together, just PM me.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1381248925' post='2236439']
Ha! Thanks, I would not really think of another wah if I could solve the bypass thing on mine. Yours would be similar, I suspect.[/quote]

I was actually thinking you could gut the insides and BYOC...

[quote]But I can try to help you set up your bass anyway, if you want.[/quote]

That would be really cool. Don't think the frets need any work, just a bit of tweaking of the action and definitely the pickup heights. I'm rubbish at setting pickups so another set of ears would be useful. Need my strings to arrive from the US first...

[mcnach]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1381252961' post='2236531']
I was actually thinking you could gut the insides and BYOC...



That would be really cool. Don't think the frets need any work, just a bit of tweaking of the action and definitely the pickup heights. I'm rubbish at setting pickups so another set of ears would be useful. Need my strings to arrive from the US first...
[/quote]


Cool. Let me know when you are ready and we'll find some time
Although if you continue pronouncing blasphemous words (one pickup only looks wrong in a bass) I may change my mind

[phil.i.stein]

another vote for the G-Labs Bass Wowee Wah. no tone suck, and choice whether to toggle on/off or leave on.

plus variations on which frequencies get swept.

Edited October 8, 2013 by phil.i.stein

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1381254112' post='2236554']
Although if you continue pronouncing blasphemous words (one pickup only looks wrong in a bass) I may change my mind
[/quote]

Nah, its only a single bridge pickup that looks wrong. P basses are fine