mcnach Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 I finally got my hands on one. I wanted one as I noticed that my Markbass CMD121P's speaker was moving quite a bit sometimes... Ok, it's not that surprising as it's a very loud beast, famously so, and therefore it must move enough air... and all that orange just makes it more obvious. Fine, I'm sure I never pushed the amp too hard and that it operates within the expected parameters... but I felt that I wanted to try one of these Thumpinators and see how much of that movement was unnecessary. First test today. At home friendly levels it never moved all that much, and as I want to remain in good terms with my neighbours I did not want to push the volume up too much. But I did push the bass knob. More than I normally do. I then slapped a bit,, nothing too aggressive. The speaker was moving quite a bit. Then I used the Thumpinator... and it was just as loud, as far as my ears could tell, but the speaker moved a LOT less. I'm keeping it! I'm curious to test it in front of effects like octavers, and see how it affects tracking (some claim it improves tracking noticeably), although I think I would rather have it at the very end of the chain, especially if using envelope filters etc. Cool little gadget. It makes me feel less concerned about using the Markbass combo on its own sometimes, when I end up playing it pretty loudly, if it tames unnecessary speaker movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 I really like the idea of it, but I use a lot of Octave effects, and I found that it did shave some low-end and character from my OC-2 etc. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBassBob Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I can't say I've noticed it affecting my speaker movement as I can't see my speakers but it definitely is handy for taming that boomy, rumbling crap at the far end of the sonic spectrum. I keep mine after the tuner. I don't use my envelope filter and octave all the time so I figured that even if they add some extreme low end back in I'd rather have the character of the effect intact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I would have thought the point of having this would be to put it at the end of the chain? No point taming the lows from the bass to add them all back on with fx! But yes, I'd like one too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TG Flatline Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1379327618' post='2211208'] I would have thought the point of having this would be to put it at the end of the chain? No point taming the lows from the bass to add them all back on with fx! But yes, I'd like one too. [/quote] Depends. Having it at the end is the logical thing to do if you're looking at it purely from an amp point of view. You get different interactions with pedals when the Thumpinator is before them though. Great bit of kit, only bit of signal processing on my board that isn't built by me, I highly recommend it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted September 16, 2013 Author Share Posted September 16, 2013 [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1379327618' post='2211208'] I would have thought the point of having this would be to put it at the end of the chain? No point taming the lows from the bass to add them all back on with fx! But yes, I'd like one too. [/quote] Yeah, that's how I use it and how it made sense to me to use it. But I heard of enough people who claim certain pedals appear to respond better when placed after the Thumpinator. Octavers, for instance. Presumably removing extreme low end makes pitch recognition a little bit easier and so it improves the tracking. I haven't tried it myself. The Thumpinator seems to have no noticeable effect (regarding pronounced speaker cone movement) when using my TC RH450. It appears that amp already has a markedly low high pass filter which removes a lot of the subsonic low end. My RS cab's speakers move a lot more when using the Markbass through them. I had a gig last night to which I took the Markbass and used the Thumpinator. It was just as loud as usual, but the speakers moved noticeably less. That has to be a good thing. Actually, someone came afterwards to comment just how nice the bass sounded and was raving about the amazing little amp I was using... but I doubt what he heard was a lot to do with the amp, but just that the sound guy we had knew what he was doing. Someone else who has seen me play with the same band many times before, a bassist himself, told me he thought the RH450 I used previously had more "oomph"... but we had different sound guy last night compared to other times, so who knows what was due to the amp and what to the sound man. On stage I prefer the Markbass. I find it easier to get a midrangey but fat sound out of it. BUt I digress... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 It might be the next pedal I get (though that might be next year). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Rocket Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Don't Markbass amps already have a built-in low pass filter that does the same job as a thumpinator? I'm almost certain I heard that somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 (edited) Unfortunately not. The Thumpinator is more of a low shelf filter (or maybe even a high pass filter set over most of the spectrum). The Markbass amps have a VLE dial which is a form of low pass filter, but like a true LPF, only reduces the top end & not the lows & the VPF is a mid scoop (that also increases the lows & highs). Edited September 16, 2013 by xgsjx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 If you are interested it is easy to see how this works. Have a look at the graph at the top of page 2 [url="http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Kappalite_3015_cab.pdf"]http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Kappalite_3015_cab.pdf[/url] This is the famous Kappalite but it could be any speaker as this is just down to the properties of all speakers in ported cabs. The Kappa is better than most. The graph shows excursion at different frequencies with 450W going through the speaker. The speaker can do about 6mm before distorting and 11mm before it is damaged. You can see that it goes past 6mm at 40Hz (bottom E) and past 11mm at about 30Hz (bottom . If you bash the guitar it can go lower than this. The limits for most other speakers are worse. The Thumpinator stops most speakers going into this zone where they just don't work properly. There is really no point in feeding in a signal the speaker can't turn into a sound you can hear and if you push them hard enough to reach their max then all the sound they make will be distorted, not just the deep note that pushed them there. If you read the text you'll see that Eminence recommend a filter like the Thumpinator for all their speakers and cabs designs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBassBob Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 (edited) My logic behind the placement on my board is that it's affecting my bass' signal in a way that would allow further effects in the chain to respond better. I keep a compressor on the end of the chain to tame any volume spikes from my envelope filter but, as said before, I figure that with my light use of octave and filter I would rather get the full sound of those effects for those brief periods where THAT sound is required. Edited September 16, 2013 by BigBassBob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 [quote name='BigBassBob' timestamp='1379366301' post='2211934'] My logic behind the placement on my board is that it's affecting my bass' signal in a way that would allow further effects in the chain to respond better. I keep a compressor on the end of the chain to tame any volume spikes from my envelope filter but, as said before, I figure that with my light use of octave and filter I would rather get the full sound of those effects for those brief periods where THAT sound is required. [/quote] This makes sense. If you remove the subsonics first then the octaver only works on the signal that passes through, the bits you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBassBob Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 This has got me thinking... has anyone looked at the frequency output of say an octave pedal, say an OC 2 to see what the lowest frequencies are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phagor Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 [quote name='BigBassBob' timestamp='1379375681' post='2212032']has anyone looked at the frequency output of say an octave pedal, say an OC 2 to see what the lowest frequencies are? [/quote] One or two octaves below your lowest note. A low B string is 30 Hz, so one octave below is 15 Hz, and two is 7.5 Hz! Ain't a cab made that's going near that. Of course, an OC2 will be a wobbly, glitchy mess on a low B... Having said that, there's some psychoacoustic stuff that says that you don't need to hear the fundamental for your brain to guess the pitch of a note - your brain recognises it from the harmonics, especially relative to other notes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBassBob Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Aha. A is usually the very lowest I'll go down to with an octaver so for argument's sake let's say that the lowest usable frequency from an octaver would be around 27.5 hz. I'm going to have to do some experimenting to see what is truly the best place for a HPF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 [quote name='Junkyard Rocket' timestamp='1379359317' post='2211799'] Don't Markbass amps already have a built-in low pass filter that does the same job as a thumpinator? I'm almost certain I heard that somewhere. [/quote] I don't think so. The Thumpinator clearly has a very pronounced effect on mine. The VLF and VLE filters are something else entirely, if that's what you were referring to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherairsoft Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 MB don't but Genz do (well, the Streamliner at least - I can't vouch for the Shuttle, but I imagine it's the same). I was sure my STM900 was cutting everything under 30hz as my cab goes that low quite happily and noticed a difference in floor movement. I spoke to one of the guys at Genz who designed it (he's actually a Talk Bass user too I found out after) and he confirmed it has a filter as part of it's circuitry. That explained why I found the Thumpinator to be doing nothing for me! lol. I should try it again now with my Fafner... not that I actually want to filter out those lows, (my cabs drivers hardly move at the best of times and the amp doesn't break a sweat) but I would like to experience the Thumpinators effects properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 [quote name='pantherairsoft' timestamp='1379409629' post='2212217'] MB don't but Genz do (well, the Streamliner at least - I can't vouch for the Shuttle, but I imagine it's the same). I was sure my STM900 was cutting everything under 30hz as my cab goes that low quite happily and noticed a difference in floor movement. I spoke to one of the guys at Genz who designed it (he's actually a Talk Bass user too I found out after) and he confirmed it has a filter as part of it's circuitry. That explained why I found the Thumpinator to be doing nothing for me! lol. I should try it again now with my Fafner... not that I actually want to filter out those lows, (my cabs drivers hardly move at the best of times and the amp doesn't break a sweat) but I would like to experience the Thumpinators effects properly. [/quote] The Fafner still working well for you Shep? I'm still digging the Genz, got a new G&L SB2 to try out this weekend, so looking forward to seeing how that works in the mix with the Streamliner/Compact Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherairsoft Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Indeed! Loving it buddy. Still kick myself or selling mine in the first place. Love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Cracking, still rate the Fafner as the best amp I've ever used, when we have a bigger house I'll probably look at getting another one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Markbass speakers certainly look like they`re going to jump out of the cabs at times. When I first used mine, in a 410 I had I was a little worried, but reading up on them, it seems that`s just how they are. Interesting that the demo of the Thumpinator is through a Markbass cab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shizznit Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Has anyone tried the Thumpinator through the amps effects loop yet? Does it work better going into the front? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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