Theory the very basics.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Plampers' timestamp='1374073848' post='2145008']
As to what baffles me..well the basics. Scales and chords. From Scott's devices bass lesson on scales I have a better idea. I think I need to get to know the notes by name and it may help me. I can work them out but I couldn't just find a certain note fast.
[/quote]

If you really want to ease yourself into theory gently then you only need to look at the major scale to start with. Minor scales, pentatonics, modes etc etc can all come later. The major scale is the basis for chord construction and naming.

[Plampers]

[quote name='jakenewmanbass' timestamp='1374091842' post='2145267']

Yup
you will come across the notes G A B C D E F# G
it will be the same shape as the C Major, which is why you have to play an F#... keep that shape
[/quote]

Great. I'll keep working through the major scales and memorising notes. Cheers for your help.

[tonyquipment]

i would listen closely to the tracks you want to emulate and try to emulate them. look at the patterns and shapes to see where they go and pick it apart to analyse and recycle into your own style

[xilddx]

[quote name='tonyquipment' timestamp='1374094175' post='2145291']
i would listen closely to the tracks you want to emulate and try to emulate them. look at the patterns and shapes to see where they go and pick it apart to analyse and recycle into your own style
[/quote]
That's what I've been doing for 30 years, and why I am now taking theory lessons from Jake.

[rk7]

Ah yes, I forgot about StudyBass, a really good site, very structured.

http://www.studybass.com/study-guide/

good luck, and remember, keep it simple at first. Don't get swamped.

thank you please

RK

[Bilbo]

Learning by copying has some merit buy, in my experience, learning complex 'party pieces' without understanding them is pretty pointless. Most bass players can nail some of this stuff; Teen Town, Donna Lee etc but, without the knowledge behind it, nothing happens.

Learn to read music and open everything up.

[iceonaboy]

Forget scales mate. If you are just starting, as was said before, just listen to your favourite songs and slide around till you find the notes. Keep repeating as you learn more and more of the song. Scales are too much to comprehend if you are just starting

[Dad3353]

[quote name='iceonaboy' timestamp='1374144548' post='2145706']
Forget scales mate. If you are just starting, as was said before, just listen to your favourite songs and slide around till you find the notes. Keep repeating as you learn more and more of the song. Scales are too much to comprehend if you are just starting
[/quote]

? ? ? This is a bass forum, not guitars. Most (OK, not all, but [i]most[/i]...) folks are able to understand, I find. Even I (a drummer..!) understand, so it must be easy...
Just my opinion, of course; could be that bassists are, in fact, dumb. Dunno, really...

[Coilte]

[quote name='iceonaboy' timestamp='1374144548' post='2145706']
Forget scales mate.
[/quote]

Where did you get this idea from ?????? Yes, playing along to music is another good step (of which there are many) in the learning process.

Scales, and how chords are derived from them are one of the most important things to learn at the start. Dismissing them in this way is just..well...silly. You have to build from the bottom up, and scales are the foundations.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Coilte

[Zenitram]

Yeah, scales aren't that hard to grasp are they?

1. There are 12 notes: C C# D D# E F F# G G# A A# B, all equally spaced apart (a semitone) in terms of pitch. You can play them higher and lower, but it's still the same set of notes (think about the repeating pattern of white and black keys on a piano).

2. Removing some of those notes results, for certain reasons, in a series of pitches that work well together. All Western music is based on this concept.

3. Learn how those scales fall on your fretboard. It will really help with everything else you do.

That's about it for starters isn't it.

[iceonaboy]

I appreciate that guys , but for a complete beginner scales can be a test. I learned by playing along with records. Scales came later

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='iceonaboy' timestamp='1374144548' post='2145706']
Forget scales mate. If you are just starting, as was said before, just listen to your favourite songs and slide around till you find the notes. Keep repeating as you learn more and more of the song. Scales are too much to comprehend if you are just starting
[/quote]
I can see that it's well intentioned, but it's really not helpful to suggest that anything is beyond anyone, especially when you don't know them. I've been teaching bass for 20+ years and I see beyond a shadow of a doubt that people that learn to understand what they are playing progress more quickly. Learning by ear is fantastic, but it's not the entire process.

[iceonaboy]

Learning by ear gives you a love for the instrument. Learning theory can turn some people off

[rk7]

Learning scales is fun, its official. It was the subject of my first ever lesson, and I use that theory most every time I play.

Learning to use these scales to fit in with a tune is really just taking theory and putting it into practice.

That's how learning works isn't it?

RK

[Coilte]

[quote name='iceonaboy' timestamp='1374148108' post='2145767']
for a complete beginner scales can be a test. I learned by playing along with records. Scales came later
[/quote]

For a complete beginner [i]everything [/i]can be a test. No one ever said that learning to play an instrument to a reasonably high standard was going to be easy. To bring your idea to a logical conclusion would be... "if it seems hard, drop it". It does not make sense to dismiss at the start, the building blocks of music, i.e. scales. There are many approaches to playing the bass. Learning scales (and chord tones) is one, playing along to records is another (there are many more). They are all important in their own way, and one should not take preference over the other.



[quote name='iceonaboy' timestamp='1374148783' post='2145786']
Learning by ear gives you a love for the instrument. Learning theory can turn some people off
[/quote]


Again, as above, all aspects of learning are important. There is no denying that developing your ear by playing along to music is a major asset. However, if this is your one and only way of learning, and you neglect basic theory, you become a human duke box, regurgatating other people's lines all the time. Some people might be happy with this....fair enough. However, learning some basic theory (no one is saying you need a doctorate in music ) will help you in being able to construct your own original bass lines. If you [i]really[/i] love the instrument, you will do whatever it takes to learn it to the best of your ability.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='iceonaboy' timestamp='1374148783' post='2145786']
Learning by ear gives you a love for the instrument. Learning theory can turn some people off
[/quote]

The whole thread is about someone asking for advice specifically because they want to learn theory, so IMO its not especially constructive to derail it into a should you/shouldnt you debate, but by al means start a new thread and we can have the bunfight there

Edited July 18, 2013 by bassman7755

[iceonaboy]

My my, I have opened a can of worms here. Fair enough , you all think its better to learn theory. If the OP wants that, take it away. Im just saying the way I learnt was to play along with records. Didnt do me any harm. I have since taken theory on board. You say tomaetoes, I say Tomatoes. The guy said he was a complete beginner. If that was me and I was doing scales all the time, I would be cheesed off in no time. I would want to get stuck in to my favourite songs, but we are all different

[xilddx]

[quote name='iceonaboy' timestamp='1374156663' post='2145906']
My my, I have opened a can of worms here. Fair enough , you all think its better to learn theory. If the OP wants that, take it away. Im just saying the way I learnt was to play along with records. Didnt do me any harm. I have since taken theory on board. You say tomaetoes, I say Tomatoes. The guy said he was a complete beginner. If that was me and I was doing scales all the time, I would be cheesed off in no time. I would want to get stuck in to my favourite songs, but we are all different
[/quote]
That's the problem with applying your own personality to other peoples' needs.

[Coilte]

[quote name='iceonaboy' timestamp='1374156663' post='2145906']
If that was me and I was doing scales all the time, I would be cheesed off in no time.
[/quote]

See....you are still missing the point. At no time did anyone say you need to practice scales [b]all the time. [/b]

A well balanced practice session will consist of scales/theory, ear training, timing and groove, reading, transcribing, etc.


Anyway, as "bassman7755" says, we dont want to derail this thread any further. If you wish to debate this further, feel free to start a new thread.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='iceonaboy' timestamp='1374156663' post='2145906']
... you all think its better to learn theory ...
[/quote]
Wrong.

I expect you'll find most if not all people in this thread think it's best to do ear training and to learn theory. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

[xilddx]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1374162383' post='2145986']
Wrong.

I expect you'll find most if not all people in this thread think it's best to do ear training and to learn theory. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
[/quote]

Exactly. Jesus, the bullshit I used to write on here about this

[Grangur]

Surely, if you're playing along with your favourite track and you're trying to find the next right note; up or down, if you know scales then it will give you a better insight to where you should be looking. OK, it's not guaranteed[size=4], as not everything is played in a Major or Minor scale, but it's a start.[/size]

FWIW I'm learning too and I think it can be off putting trying to play bass lines from recordings. For example, I've got a book of Red Hot Chillie Peppers, Stadium Arcadia. It's got a good CD with it too. It's cool. But can I replicate what Flea plays? Can I hell!!

[size=4]So if trying to play Stadium Arcadia is the way to learn, then f*** this. I can't do it.[/size]

[size=4]But I can play scales, modes and I'm playing other stuff and enjoying it..... Each to their own.[/size]

Edited July 18, 2013 by Grangur

[jakenewmanbass]

People that don't know what they are talking about but will talk anyway, will generally defend quite heavily when presented with people that really do know what they are talking about.
The odd thing about music is that you can be very very good at playing but not have the theoretical background, there are times where you will need it, and times where you just use your ears. For my money, one is much better off having it all available.
I've always said the ultimate test is how something sounds, if it sounds good it is good, no amount of theoretical knowledge or ignorance will alter that one jot.

Edited July 18, 2013 by jakenewmanbass

[rk7]

I'm fairly sure we have departed from the original post here chaps.

It was a simple request for advice on where to find some good theory information.

RK

[iceonaboy]

[quote name='rk7' timestamp='1374215566' post='2146452']
I'm fairly sure we have departed from the original post here chaps.

It was a simple request for advice on where to find some good theory information.

RK
[/quote]

Which was given, then we digressed