Guest bassman7755 Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 (edited) [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1372890141' post='2131397'] Ahahaha! I think that's why people are scared to learn, they think they will become obsessed with jazz [/quote] Theres plenty to learn about music from "pop" songs many of which have a wealth of harmonic intricacy underneath the catchy tunes - Queen, Abba, The Who, Zep, The Police, Beach Boys, Carpenters and many others. Most people could probably achieve a pretty decent level of knowledge just by deeply analysing the songs in their saturday night pub covers set. Edited July 6, 2013 by bassman7755 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 (edited) I think the major point here is about being able to be free with getting ideas and music from your imagination on to your instrument. From a bass playing perspective, in my view, one of the best ways to gain facilities of that nature is to become adept at interpreting a set of changes and being able to play a variety of bass lines to fit them, because eventually that variety becomes wide as your ability to express increases, then you get to choose which is best. In turn one of the best vehicles for learning that process is to become really comfortable with walking bass. If you can create lines of interest, ad infinitum, from changes with 4 notes (crotchets) from one or two (or however many) chords in a bar, then I promise the world will become your oyster when it comes to letting ideas flow. Caveat: it's really easy to kid yourself that you are doing fine with walking lines, the goalposts are always further away than they look. Edited July 6, 2013 by jakenewmanbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 (edited) As Nigel's cohort in this learning process I have to add that, although some of you are expressing concern about him being too hard on himself, I can assure you that it's just part of his personal process, and will in fact help him reach places he has previously shied from. I will reassure him regularly about his strengths, and he has plenty of them, he has a very wide imagination and open minded approach to music. He just needs a period of programming... Sorry to discuss you so openly Nige, but I'm fairly certain you will be happy for me to. Edited July 6, 2013 by jakenewmanbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 All joking aside, I'm just genuinely impressed with Nige's drive & enthusiasm after 34 years of playing. I really wish I still got as fired up about music as he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 I seem to remember you touching on this a few years back, then coming to the conclusion that you didn't need it, I'm pleased you've now decided to go back to it and judging by this thread, it maybe hard for you now to to follow through on it, so good luck with it. Im seriously in need of doing what you are doing, but have decided just to stick with enjoying what I do (mainly playing fun covers) and I have to many hobbies (along with the kids activities) to fit in the theory (although I am now sitting quite in the back of the room when my daughter has guitar lessons, so am taking something in). If I had my time again, id learn it from young, among many other things All the best, just don't be to down on us fakers, the crowds still enjoy the music, as do I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demon Rockstar Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 I have just bought a bass after not playing for 15 years and although I can remember the basics and some scales, I too have realised I have to start from scratch and learn ALL the scales and even all the notes on the bass again, I used to be able to look at the bass and know EXACTLY what note on each string and fret was. And altho I know some of them I am going to have to re-learn everything again. And besides I know players who have been playing over 30+ yrs and even they say they are still learning new stuff to this day, so don`t beat yourself up too bad, I`m sure the best of players out there would admit they could still learn something new and if they say they couldn`t and know EVERYTHING there is to know....... Then I say they are lying and have too big an Ego Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share Posted July 6, 2013 [quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1373109184' post='2133787'] All joking aside, I'm just genuinely impressed with Nige's drive & enthusiasm after 34 years of playing. I really wish I still got as fired up about music as he does. [/quote] You know what, Rhys, your post has just massively opened my mind I take my enthusiasm completely for granted, not a day goes by without me actively listening to at least an hour of very varied music. I'm constantly thinking about music and playing and improving my own music and abilities, although it's not been at all focused, it certainly is now with Jake's help. Thing is, although I know I sometimes come over as a bit of a know all on here, I still feel like a real musical baby, a beginner, especially when I compare myself to some of the people I play with and meet. I think feeling like a baby keeps my enthusiasm going. I adore music. The day I feel jaded by music is the day I become old and tired and near death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share Posted July 6, 2013 [quote name='jakenewmanbass' timestamp='1373108482' post='2133770'] I think the major point here is about being able to be free with getting ideas and music from your imagination on to your instrument. From a bass playing perspective, in my view, one of the best ways to gain facilities of that nature is to become adept at interpreting a set of changes and being able to play a variety of bass lines to fit them, because eventually that variety becomes wide as your ability to express increases, then you get to choose which is best. In turn one of the best vehicles for learning that process is to become really comfortable with walking bass. If you can create lines of interest, ad infinitum, from changes with 4 notes (crotchets) from one or two (or however many) chords in a bar, then I promise the world will become your oyster when it comes to letting ideas flow. Caveat: it's really easy to kid yourself that you are doing fine with walking lines, the goalposts are always further away than they look. [/quote] [quote name='jakenewmanbass' timestamp='1373108741' post='2133774'] As Nigel's cohort in this learning process I have to add that, although some of you are expressing concern about him being too hard on himself, I can assure you that it's just part of his personal process, and will in fact help him reach places he has previously shied from. I will reassure him regularly about his strengths, and he has plenty of them, he has a very wide imagination and open minded approach to music. He just needs a period of programming... Sorry to discuss you so openly Nige, but I'm fairly certain you will be happy for me to. [/quote] I haven't had much time over the last few days to reply to posts, but I've read it all. Thanks for the kind words and insights and opinions, great stuff to read! I'm not being any more hard on myself than usual, I'm always hard on myself in all things, that's just me. It's good for my soul, it's how I learn. I completely concur with Jake's statement about learning to walk, and believe me, it is a great analogy. It really does form the basics of understanding the fretboard, and there is no end to the complexity you can immerse yourself in, a immense level of brain training is possible through walking through changes and increasingly complex modulation. I think many of us know this emotionally, but actually learning it is a real wake up call and there's no need to be afraid of it. In fact, If I just stopped lessons with Jake now, that one lesson will have unleashed enough to keep me going for a very long time. But I am not going to stop, I want MORE!! Jake, thanks for the kind words mate, and tbh, I'd thought maybe I was talking too openly about you earlier But I don't think so now. I'm completely happy for you to discuss me openly, whether it is about my attitude (good or bad), my progress (good or bad), or about my strengths and weaknesses. If your doing this this helps other people learn about themselves and generate some confidence in their abilities, or help make some decisions, then it's all good. I would like to say AGAIN, that learning all this new theoretical stuff is NOT going to make me rigid, corrupted, dry, or gratuitous in the use of advanced technique or theoretical application. All it's going to do is make me a MUCH better musician. Better able to be sympathetic to the composers I work with, and to recognise notes, chords, patterns and arrangements more quickly. I am simply hoping to be a much better me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stef030 Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 (edited) [i]bloody nora,thats deep nige, [/i] [i]am thinking about doing the very same myself,[/i] I have come to realise that theres more than just noodling around the fretboard, the difference with me is I can do all that stuff,but most of the time although is sounds ok I just dont have a clue the theory behind what I am doing all the best with the tutor cheers stef Edited July 7, 2013 by stef030 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Well, for what it's worth, I'm doing the exact same thing. I just don't need no bloody teacher to help me doing it. Two pints and a few Islays, and I'm back to zero. I fail to see why Nigel would want to use good money on achieving slowly what is sooo easily gained during a good evening. Sorry to bring some science into the discussion, but one can only take so much. b, b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted July 22, 2013 Author Share Posted July 22, 2013 [left]I just started this free online Berklee Improvisation course. It's very good, a real challenge, but I feel like such a musical puppy doing this. First part of the five weekly assignments is to analyse Gary Burton's piano solo off a recording and the fly sh*t, then record an improvisation over a supplied backing track and submit them all for peer review and grading. [/left] [left]I'm REALLY learning though, reading the dots and working out the intervals and musical devices, and what musical effect they have, and writing all that stuff down is teaching me loads. Even after a few hours I am recognising notes on the stave so much more quickly, and working out the chord progressions in relation to the key sig and whatavyer. It's giving me the confidence I need, and making all this technical sh*t seem much less daunting.[/left] [left]I feel very encouraged, and above all, despite the headache of the mental effort involved, I am very much enjoying it. I don't know if I will ever truly enjoy listening to jazz, but I'm certainly starting to appreciate it a lot more, and learning through it.[/left] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted July 22, 2013 Author Share Posted July 22, 2013 [quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1373212797' post='2134775'] Well, for what it's worth, I'm doing the exact same thing. I just don't need no bloody teacher to help me doing it. Two pints and a few Islays, and I'm back to zero. I fail to see why Nigel would want to use good money on achieving slowly what is sooo easily gained during a good evening. Sorry to bring some science into the discussion, but one can only take so much. b, b [/quote] I have too many 'good nights' with the whisky as it is mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfalex v1.1 Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 [quote name='Conan' timestamp='1372864323' post='2130884'] Don't you know? [/quote] Isn't that the guy from Depeche Mode? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 did you have any luck with those apps Nige? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted July 22, 2013 Author Share Posted July 22, 2013 [quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1374509955' post='2149527'] did you have any luck with those apps Nige? [/quote] Interesting though they were, they didn't feel right for me mate, sorry, the Mozart one seemed too complex and not what I need at this time, maybe I just didn't understand them I'm using the Jazz Session Band app a BC member posted which has been very useful. I've made great progress today though, just with three hours looking at dots, hearing the music, and working theoretical sh*t out with a classical guitar. I feel like some familiarisation is happening, albeit on a very low level. Thanks for those apps mate, I will revisit them when I feel a bit more confident. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1374510967' post='2149547'] Interesting though they were, they didn't feel right for me mate, sorry, the Mozart one seemed too complex and not what I need at this time, maybe I just didn't understand them I'm using the Jazz Session Band app a BC member posted which has been very useful. I've made great progress today though, just with three hours looking at dots, hearing the music, and working theoretical sh*t out with a classical guitar. I feel like some familiarisation is happening, albeit on a very low level. Thanks for those apps mate, I will revisit them when I feel a bit more confident. Cheers [/quote] i found classical guitar pieces great way to pick up theory and also singing (choirs big orchestral stuff) was great for sight reading and if you sing tenor you learn both treble and bass clefs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted July 22, 2013 Author Share Posted July 22, 2013 [quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1374511347' post='2149555'] i found classical guitar pieces great way to pick up theory and also singing (choirs big orchestral stuff) was great for sight reading and if you sing tenor you learn both treble and bass clefs [/quote] Yeah, I play guitar and bass and I'm doing all treble clef right now. Oddly, I find classical guitar does nowt for me, it's flamenco that blows me away. My singing is more castrato mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Woodcock Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1372865705' post='2130908'] I'm also going to give a big shout out for Steve Woodcock too (Stickman on BC). Also an amazing player on bass and Chapman Stick, and an ace tutor. I chose Jake over Steve because of certain peculiarities I have that Jake is able to rip apart. This is no reflection on Steve at all, it's just specific to my particular learning needs and my personality that I chose Jake. Steve is brilliant at explaining theory and demonstrating practical application, and have no hesitation in recommending you check him out if you want a tutor for any level of experience. He's in West London. [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/180288-bass-tuition-available-in-west-london/"]http://basschat.co.u...in-west-london/[/url] [/quote] Hey Nige, I just spotted your post - thanks for the kind words. Glad the lessons are going well with Jake, I've heard nothing but good things about him on here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krysh Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 (edited) [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1374513727' post='2149587'] ...My singing is more castrato mate [/quote] you lucky bastard, at least you have some. I hate mine... edit: Edited August 14, 2013 by krysh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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