B-15 sound but louder, lighter and hopefully a little bit cheaper

[matybigfro]

Really lucky to get to use a Ampeg B-15 (I believe) in Jim Barr's (of portishead and the blessing) studio 'j&j' on and off over the last few weeks as I've been tracking with my band 'Empty Pools' and I've totally fallen in love with that bass sound (played both jazz and precision on it). I can't imagine ever wanting to sound like anything else on record (I play through allot of fuzzes and OD's switching between clean and dirty sounds).

I currently have a tecamp 212 puma combo but would prefer something head and cab, compactish (have to fit two guitar combo's and drum kit in two normal cars, much louder(drummers and all that) what will get me closest to that sound for not too much money don't mind S/H either for trade price of my combo or not too much more

[Mr. Foxen]

My house is 3 streets from that studio, so you can come a try a wide variety of amps without going very far. Who are you recording with? Everyone there is called Jim. Recorded the Caricatures album there, didn't give the Ampeg a try, seemed a bit small for purpose.

[voxpop]

I use a 65 Amps Apollo head and cab. It's not cheep but will give you a very close B-15 sound.
I changed the celestion speaker for a light weight Faitel. It's a great package, 50w of warm punchy sound in an easy to carry package.

http://www.bassplayer.com/article/65amps-Apollo/5068

[matybigfro]

We're working with a Producer called [url="http://www.myspace.com/tomrobertknott"]Tom Knott[/url] in there at the moment (he used to work out of Manchester but moved back down this way a few years ago, also play's with I Am Kloot). When we started in there I only had a Behringer ultrabass that I was using as a back up for gigs as one of the speakers on the tecamp had blown so I just used what they had already been set up for me, although pretty excited to see such a nice vintage looking piece of kit there I wondered if something that small would be aggressive enough but in a iso room on it's own cooking some tubes it sounded awesome (PM me for some private links to early non release pre-mixes). I'm just not sure it would be loud enough for practice/gigging with a band and need something that would stay clean when competting with a drummer. Also it was pretty weighty and currently living in a first floor flat I just can't face carrying heavey stuff back up the stairs after practices and gigs?

I was wondering how close [size=4]something [/size]like the Genz Benz Streamliner or Ampeg PF-500 heads would get me to that sound and what cab's would be best to pair them with?

Mr Foxen I may have to pop my head into your den when we're next at the Studio?

[chris_b]

Live and studio are different worlds.

If you like the Ampeg sound then the PRO7 is a good stage amp. I wouldn't buy an Ampeg cab if you live on the first floor. Maybe a Barefaced Compact?

An Aguilar TH500 through a Bergantino 212 would get you a fantastic live sound.

You need to get a budget and do some homework.

Also I'd claim the space in the car for the gear you need, rather than trying to fit in to a corner of the back seat. I'd keep the Puma if it's the sound you want. The drummer can leave some drums at home. Why should you be the one making all the sacrifices?

[matybigfro]

To my Ear's the Puma is too Modern/Hi-Fi sounding, It's EQ isn't in the right place for me Boosting Low's seem to boost freq's just beneath where it feel like you want them to so your getting a boomy/muddy sound rather than a deep full warm low sound and the lo Mid is too punchy not low enough. The only thing I love about it is how light it is, it sit's in one seat in a car and has wheel's on so it can be rolled.

I also just don't have the space at home for a massive cab or 8x10 fridge

I hope I can get about £750 for the Puma S/H if I'm buyin used gear I will likely not be able to afford to spend much more than that however if I'm buying new I could probably speend more and put some on a CC or HF

[Roland Rock]

[quote name='matybigfro' timestamp='1366099625' post='2048189']
I was wondering how close [size=4]something [/size]like the Genz Benz Streamliner or Ampeg PF-500 heads would get me to that sound and what cab's would be best to pair them with?

[/quote]
Not tried the PF500, but I have a Streamliner and a 100w valve head. To my ears, the Streamliner sounds really nice and is relatively warm, but there's just no substitute for a valve power section. If I wanted that sound on a budget, Mr Foxen would be my first port of call, and it turns out he's only a few streets away! What are you waiting for?

[molan]

I use a B15'at home and have an Aguilar TH500 for live use. It's obviously not the same but it's the closest I've found so far.

[Bassman Steve]

I was once the lucky owner of a B15 (a 70's one). As you say, pretty much useless outside a recording studio (these days).

I have a PF500 and the matching 1x15 cab and really like the sound. It doesn't sound very dis-similar to my ears at all. Nice and portable too.

[wateroftyne]

Disclaimer: I have no experience with the B-15 other than what I've heard on recordings... and a lovely sound it is.

Anyway, the MESA Walkabout Scout might be worth a look. [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/mesa-walkabout-scout-15-combo-1st-impressions-some-venture-comments-179436/"]Here's one report[/url].

I've used the head for years, and the combo befre that, and it does have something about it that other non-tube heads I've tried don't have.

(That last sentence kind-of makes sense if you read it enough times).

[JTUK]

Tried this one in a shop the other day...
PF-500 and HE-115 portaflex.

Lovely sound at shop volumes.... and my only concern would be
would it amp up well.
This always sorts the men out from the boys IMO..but at least you
got the sound right at one point.

Edited April 16, 2013 by JTUK

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='matybigfro' timestamp='1366099625' post='2048189']
Mr Foxen I may have to pop my head into your den when we're next at the Studio?
[/quote]


Shoot me a PM when abouts is good, I'm on Greenbank Road.

[BassBod]

Stick a Sansamp VT in front of your existing amp...you may be very pleased with the sound. I've used the old bass driver or a VT or a SFT clone to good effect in front of very clean amps (SWR and Euphonic/Acoustic Image). I know plenty will say its not the same..you need toobs etc etc but just try it for yourself. Just ignore the Sansamp manuals that show full blend all the time - I never need more than 30% to get my sounds.

There is newer VT pedal on the way (soon?) that has the DI and blend features in a small pedal format.

[Bassman Steve]

Naturally enough I use the Boogie gear for the big gigs but I have gigged the Ampeg at pub gigs and it's coped brilliantly. If I was ever to want a lightweight rig I'd probably just buy another 1x15 and be done with it.

I was actually amazed at how good it sounded. I'd seriously give it a go.

[matybigfro]

When people suggest using the the VT or SFT pedal in front of an amp what are do you guy's have in mind in regards to what's being addded to the tone.

My impression is that pedals are good for adding overdrive (if even only slight) to a clean amp's sound, but I"m not really after a overdriven amp sound as I tend to use OD and fuzz pedals for that quiet a lot. What I"m after in a tube amp is that warmth, responce to overdrive and fuzz pedals (what i tend to hear as a sort of cushioning whereby the harmonics are softened and don't sound as harsh and much warmer) and that tube tone/feel that often seems to come from the power amp (ie i've tried tube compressor or Od pedals infront of solid state pre's and it doesn't seem to feel the same)

Although I tended to the run the B15 fairly hot in the studio it was still pretty much a clean sound and it had a beautifull glassy texture to the highs so i know I don't want to just add dirt and treble roll off to my existing amp will using a tech amp or catlinbread give me that or just make the amp not clean?

does that make sense

[Mr. Foxen]

Treble roll off is the taking the nasty off the top of fuzz. The tone/feel is distortion and compression (compresion is also a form of distortion). The VT covers both of those, it simulates the power section too, you don't have to use it driven, jsut a lot of the knob sweep is degrees of driven, don't be afraid to have it down.

[Mr. Foxen]

Oh yeah, this thing will do the louder part: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Marshall-2001-all-valve-tube-amplifier-400W-vintage-1980s-6550-kt88-/140975222474?pt=UK_MusicalInstr_Amplifiers_RL&hash=item20d2c72eca

Lighter not so much.

[BassBod]

The VT and bass diver will give a good emulation of a valve amp...with care I've found them capable of transforming very clean sounding amps into nice old school things. But..my priority is easy transport/loading, then sound, then volume for the gig. Your list may be very different.

I found the key was to pretty much ignore the manuals and just listen to what they can do - particularly with less drive and careful use of the blend. Its too easy to overblow things and think of these as fuzz boxes..they can do much more subtle things if you take the time to experiment.

My SFT is a clone, so I don't have any experience of a "real one". But, it is a bit more of a distortion pedal to me - the eq is very low mid focussed. More of a rocker than a jazzer?

I'm waiting for the new smaller DI version of the VT to arrive...seems to tick all my boxes!

[matybigfro]

I've got a Behringer BDI21 that I've just been using for recording direct into a laptop. I've only just begun to notice that you have to tweak the Blend knob to get any reasonable mid's or a usable tone. I might need to rig it up with the Puma at our next practice

With the BDI or Bass VT would you recomend going into the normal Bass input on the Puma or into the effect return to cut out the Puma's Pre-Amp I terms of size and Volume and ease of moving the Puma is ridiculously light and pretty loud (it does benafit from having a ext cab plugged in to get the full headroom and volyume from all 500 watts) But if the Bass VT will get it as close to a B-15's tone as any other light weight and loud Amp would new (main contenders being Orange Bass Terror, Genz Benz Streamliner, CarvinBX500 or Ampeg PF800 with lightweight cab possibly barefaced)

[BassBod]

My Sansamp is very old, so it doesn't have a line level output option (as the new ones do). That means going into the effects return is too low level to drive the power amp well....so I have to use it in the front of the amp. Sounds good though. I just set the amp's tone controls to near "neutral" and only use them to fine tune what comes out of the pedal.

Have fun experimenting, and do look out for used VT version 1, without the speaker simulator off switch. They are probably very cheap, as version 2 has been around for a while, and the latest DI version is coming soon.