Bobby K Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Ok guys, I've noticed a lot of very nice unlined fretlesses coming up for sale in the BC marketplace I was just pondering the idea of getting lines put on an unlined fretless and how one would go about it...? (Philistine, I hear you all shout ) I'm guessing a trip to the local luthier would be in order and was wondering what the options are and what a ballpark price might be. Don't get me wrong, I know it would be better in the long run to persevere with an unmarked and learn the fingerboard the hard way; I also play cello and know all about this issue. I just don't have the time to put in the practice to master such an instrument. Your thoughts, gents of the bass...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_B Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 IMHO, by the time you'd got it done, you could have had a few more tries on it as an unlined neck, and probably got your head around playing it 'mastering' it wouldn't happen for a while anyway, lined or unlined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby K Posted September 30, 2011 Author Share Posted September 30, 2011 Oh yeah of course. I've been playing a lined one for a while now, but the idea of playing an unlined one on a darkened stage puts the fear if god in me lol. I'm just thinking of getting a nicer fretless bass and if it did happen to be a plain fingerboard, I was just wondering how feasible and practical getting it lined would be, that's all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby K Posted September 30, 2011 Author Share Posted September 30, 2011 I also played an NS upright for best part of ten years and that had the dots on it, so I'm no stranger to marked fretless playing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 You could mark the fret positions along the side of the neck until you get up to speed? Stickers? Non-permanent marker of some sort? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby K Posted September 30, 2011 Author Share Posted September 30, 2011 Yep, have thought about those things too. I've got a pretty good ear but would just prefer to have the lines. At the same time, I don't want to avoid a nice bass just because it's unmarked, hence my original question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_B Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 It sounds to me that what's actually going on might be a common fear when first playing the fretless. It seems to crop up once in a while in threads. That is, that fretless seems like it will be hard to do and take a long time to get the hang of. I'm sure this may be what partly fuels the lined fretless market. It's actually not at all difficult, and IMHO a lined one wouldn't make your life easier if you really wanted to go over to playing an unlined fretless. I've always thought it better to jump in feet first, not worry about it, and after not too long your brain, hands and fingers will start to synch up for fretless playing. It won't take all that long to do, believe me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 [quote name='Bobby K' timestamp='1317395840' post='1390360'] Yep, have thought about those things too. I've got a pretty good ear but would just prefer to have the lines. At the same time, I don't want to avoid a nice bass just because it's unmarked, hence my original question. [/quote] I don't see why a luthier can't do this without massive expense but, as has been suggested already, I'd go for just getting used to the unlined. So I recommend that instead of lines you get the luthier to put a side dot at every 'fret'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walplayer Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Think the cost is about or simlar to refret ,usually around £70-100 Most luthiers fit maple but i know some such as Wal prefer pear wood The other option is l.e.d.'s (fret fx are cheaper though!) I've got a nice unlined f'less here Bobby and not far from you ,you're welcome to come and try it out if it helps at all.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 stand the unlined fretless on the floor, neck pointing upwards, and then grasp it between your knees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby K Posted September 30, 2011 Author Share Posted September 30, 2011 Cheers for the input fellas, food for thought as ever. To put it into context, I've been playing with a Kate Bush tribute. (Google [i]Dutch Kate Bush, [/i]that's who it was) We did a showcase gig the other night for some of the big wig agents who put big shows on up and down the land. I used my old Hohner B Bass on the song BABOOSHKA (originally played by John Giblin on a fretless) This Hohner bass was my first attempt at a de-fret and although it's a little tatty, with a dab of chorus, it sounded ace and I think I did a pretty good job of the bassline, slid harmonics and all I could never imagine myself playing that line on a blank fretless, it was nervy enough with the lines! If the agents liked it and we get a tour out of it, I want to get something nicer. This is what got me thinking about these issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBus Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 I'm really not sure what your fear is. You play cello and have played NS. I think it is the fear of playing without lines that holds us back. I've been there. All you really need are marks at 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th and octave. That devides the board into smaller areas which might make it easier for your brain to work with in the early days. So as has been suggested side dot markers or even small lines that just hook over the edge of the neck would do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby K Posted September 30, 2011 Author Share Posted September 30, 2011 All good points BB, it's probably laziness on my part too. For me, it's all about getting the right sound and lines are a quick way to get that sound. Perhaps it's time to put the blast shield down and use the force, as it were Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_B Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 The quick way is to just learn where the dots are along the top of the neck. These may be on the fret on an unlined and between the fret on a lined. Either way, it's very easy to get the knack of the unlined version of things. I still say to stick with it - unlined, that is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Unlined fretless playing is far too dependent on the quality of the stage sound to be feasible in many live situations - bad enough with fretted bass in some cases! I find it quite funny that all the responses have tried to change the OPs opinion rather than answer the question. My guess at a price btw is around £150 - £200 but hopefully someone'll be along with a more accurate estimate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby K Posted October 1, 2011 Author Share Posted October 1, 2011 [quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1317426154' post='1390739'] I find it quite funny that all the responses have tried to change the OPs opinion rather than answer the question [/quote] Thanks Lawrence (and Walplayer) who seem to get where I'm coming from. This is all about achieving the right sound and ultimately, a sound that is in tune. This is not just a hobby for me, I do it for a living and don't want to lose the gig by being out of tune! So if the lines help me do my job and the bass sounds great, I'm happy. After the showcase gig the other day, countless people came up to me telling me how great the fretless song sounded. Job done, as far as I'm concerned. That being said though, I have not discounted the idea of getting an unlined bass and will be paying Walplayer a visit next week, to check out his PBC Bunker fretless I'm probably selling myself short on the ability to play an unlined and would probably be more accurate than i'm giving myself credit for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry norton Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Hmm, I agree with Lawrence. The sound quality on stage is all too often too rubbish to get your intonation right. I play lined and unlined fretless and like them both so if Bobby prefers the idea of a lined fretless (just like Jaco Pastorius and Mick Karn did), who are we to tell him different? You're looking at about £100 to have the board slotted, veneer filled and smoothed back. It might be a few quid more if you want dots too but the good thing about lining a fretless this way is you can have it filled with darker veneers, dots, blocks, whatever you want. I guess the rub is, if you can find the same bass but as a lined fretless in the first place then you'll save yourself a hundered quid, but that's [i]if[/i] you can find one and want it bog standard. PM me if you want and I can talk you through the process without boring the t#ts off everyone else here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby K Posted October 1, 2011 Author Share Posted October 1, 2011 Nice one Henry All things considered, I think the way forward just to get a nice fretless; if it happens to be lined, great, if not I'll give an unmarked a go. If I find after a while that I'm totally lost in space, I'll get it marked. Like I've said, if a bass was really nice but unmarked, it wouldn't stop me buying it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Luc Pickguard Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I play an NS CR5M. I doubt I'd ever want to add markings to the ebony board on my unlined fretless, but if I did I wouldn't get lines, I'd go for a cascading dot pattern like on the NS - not sure whether that would be more or less of a job for a luthier than lines though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby K Posted October 1, 2011 Author Share Posted October 1, 2011 Yep, it's worth consideration and it's how my CR4M was marked; it made all the difference and was quite understated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby K Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 Ok, so I had a good go on a nice unlined fretless last night..... Turns out you all had a point I didn't have any real difficulty with intonation at all; the existing dots down the edge of the neck were sufficient. Pino woulda been proud Really excited about getting my hands on a nice unlined fretless now. As ever, just need to find the funds Cheers all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby K Posted October 6, 2011 Author Share Posted October 6, 2011 [quote name='Bobby K' timestamp='1317400140' post='1390434'] If the agents liked it and we get a tour out of it, I want to get something nicer [/quote] Great news... We got the tour!! Starts next April..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Excellent! As a real newbie to fretless generally I stayed out of this discussion previously, but what I've noticed (owning a lined fretless and now an unlined fretless too) is that in fact it makes no difference to me because I can't actually see the lines when I'm playing - not on stage, anyway. The side dots are all I can see, and they seem to be enough for me. Well, they were until rehearsal last night when I tried to play a couple of double-stops at the 17th fret (nosebleed territory for me) and the band ground to a halt in hysterical laughter ... OK guys, I get the message, I won't do that again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby K Posted October 6, 2011 Author Share Posted October 6, 2011 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1317910838' post='1396102'] Excellent! As a real newbie to fretless generally I stayed out of this discussion previously, but what I've noticed (owning a lined fretless and now an unlined fretless too) is that in fact it makes no difference to me because I can't actually see the lines when I'm playing - not on stage, anyway. The side dots are all I can see, and they seem to be enough for me. Well, they were until rehearsal last night when I tried to play a couple of double-stops at the 17th fret (nosebleed territory for me) and the band ground to a halt in hysterical laughter ... OK guys, I get the message, I won't do that again. [/quote] Yep, the side dots do seem to suffice, a lot easier than I thought. Having played bass for 23 years probably helps a bit too. A lot of BABOOSHKA is up at the dusty end, so that should be fun in the dark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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