Compresser

[TRBboy]

Just wondered what anyone feels are the pros and cons of compressers (in live situations)?

I play some fingerstyle, some pick, and a little slap in my band, and obviously there's some variation in percieved volume(?) in what you hear out front due to this.

Does anyone think a compresser might help balance out my sound a little?

What does everyone recommend as good value for money and not too complicated (don't want to spend much if I can help it!)

Thanks.

[phil.i.stein]

live ? in my experience, no.

slap can benefit from some compression, but otherwise you're just crushing dynamics.

..and the guitar will win.

Edited July 28, 2011 by phil.i.stein

[TRBboy]

[quote name='phil.i.stein' post='1319801' date='Jul 28 2011, 09:52 PM']live ? in my experience, no.

slap can benefit from some compression, but otherwise you're just crushing dynamics.

..and the guitar will win.[/quote]

Thanks, that's kinda what I was afraid of! My Trace rig that I had for years had built-in compression, but I only used to have it on a little.

Sounds like I'm not really missing out on anything.

[51m0n]

[quote name='phil.i.stein' post='1319801' date='Jul 28 2011, 09:52 PM']live ? in my experience, no.

slap can benefit from some compression, but otherwise you're just crushing dynamics.

..and the guitar will win.[/quote]


Oh god, here we go again..........

Live, absolutely!

Crush the dynamics? No. Not possible with a compressor at all. Unless you set it up to be completely absurdly over intrusive, in which case its really getting closer to a limiter.

A brickwall limiter can, a compressor, particularly a well set up compressor is virtually transparent, even delivering over 6dB of gain reduction.

In other words a good compressor can really help even out the perceived level in the mix of your bass when playing with different techniques. Set up really well you wont even feel it compressing your signal at all.


Do a search on here for posts I've made about compression, they are many and varied and should help.

[ficelles]

[quote name='TRBboy' post='1319737' date='Jul 28 2011, 08:44 PM']What does everyone recommend as good value for money and not too complicated (don't want to spend much if I can help it!)[/quote]

The volume control(s) on your bass. Nothing extra to buy or plug in and generally under-used. Likewise the tone controls.

ficelles

[Ian Savage]

I always tended to use compression live, as much for speaker protection as for anything audible.

[Monckyman]

I`m with Simon, you need a compressor.
Everything you hear on radio, cd,vinyl,tv or yes, live, will have been compressed at some point.
You can`t always hear it as such, because it`s been done properly, but you would definitely notice the difference if it wasn`t there.

[Finbar]

Do you need a compressor? No. I've played tons of gigs without one. And I'm sure many people here have too. Probably a whole load of 'pros' to boot.

Will it be beneficial though? Yeah, if you set it up well. I think a lot of people buy a cheap pedal compressor and go off compression because it just super squeezes their sound. A lot of pedal compressors will act as an effect, but a 2 knob pedal will never be as tweakable as something with proper gain reduction meters, and dedicated threshold/ratio etc controls.

It's only since I've been fooling around with home recording, and hearing the difference that some compression VSTs can make to how good the bass sounds in a mix that I've started taking compression seriously though. There's no reason why a lot of the stuff you can learn about the mix of a recorded song can't apply live. I'm now able to give soundguys a consistent and clean high passed, compressed, limited and noise gated signal What's not to like?

Proper rack compressor is the best move I've made for my live sound in a long time.

Edited July 28, 2011 by Finbar

[TRBboy]

Oh dear, I can see I've opened a whole can of worms here!

It would need to be pretty simple to use, or I'll just get bored with it and not use it.

Is it possible to get something half decent without spending a fortune?

[Finbar]

One man's fortune is another man's pocket money. Give us a ballpark budget

[janmaat]

BC's most popular pedal: EBS Multicomp. Just amazing, and simple.

Really cool for other inputs too btw

[dannybuoy]

I might experiment with compression again... this video of the new MXR Bass Compressor shows a clear improvement in the fingerstyle sound:

[51m0n]

[quote name='TRBboy' post='1319868' date='Jul 28 2011, 11:01 PM']Oh dear, I can see I've opened a whole can of worms here!

It would need to be pretty simple to use, or I'll just get bored with it and not use it.

Is it possible to get something half decent without spending a fortune?[/quote]


Honest answer, you dont know what the heck you are doing, if you dont get a device with proper metering you wont get the most out of it, and you will end spouting nonsense like "compression crushes dynamics". Hell you wont be able to tell if its even doing something until its doing too much!

You need a full feature compressor, cheapest sort of thing is an [url="http://www.alesis.com/3630"]Alesis 3630[/url], its not the best compressor in the world by a long way, but its about a million times more useful to you than some pedal that you cant tell what it is doing because it has no metering, and you cant actually tailor to what you are trying to do because it doesnt have the rght controls.

Another good starter option if you can find one is a dbx MC6, its a desktop kind of design, proper features, sounds great, I set up Silverfoxnik's one at last years SE Bass Bash for him, and he loves what it does for him in a live situation now.

Compression, learn how to use it properly, or just dont go there.....

Edited July 28, 2011 by 51m0n

[dannybuoy]

I like the look of that MC6, it can go in the fx loop and sit on top of most micro heads without needing a rack!

[Lozz196]

I think some from of compression is definately worth it. I never used to use one, but when I did eventually buy one, our guitarist, who turned up late to our practice, remarked "got a compressor then" as soon as he walked through the door, without even looking at my set-up. He said that the notes had much more clarity & distinction, and that was hearing it from outside the room.

[TRBboy]

[quote name='51m0n' post='1319914' date='Jul 29 2011, 12:04 AM']Honest answer, you dont know what the heck you are doing, if you dont get a device with proper metering you wont get the most out of it, and you will end spouting nonsense like "compression crushes dynamics". Hell you wont be able to tell if its even doing something until its doing too much!

You need a full feature compressor, cheapest sort of thing is an [url="http://www.alesis.com/3630"]Alesis 3630[/url], its not the best compressor in the world by a long way, but its about a million times more useful to you than some pedal that you cant tell what it is doing because it has no metering, and you cant actually tailor to what you are trying to do because it doesnt have the rght controls.

Another good starter option if you can find one is a dbx MC6, its a desktop kind of design, proper features, sounds great, I set up Silverfoxnik's one at last years SE Bass Bash for him, and he loves what it does for him in a live situation now.

Compression, learn how to use it properly, or just dont go there.....[/quote]

No, I don't really know what the heck i'm doing which is why I posted on here asking for advice.

So you're saying that unless I'm going to have complicated, pro-standard equipment, I shouldn't bother at all? My Trace head used to have two knobs; compression low, and compression high. I found that these made a subtle difference to my sound and had the desired effect, and as I'm not a complete moron, I was able to judge how much compression to use without killing the dynamics of my playing.

I appreciate your advice, but I just find it a bit like saying that unless you buy a £3000 bass there's no point learning to play.

[chrismuzz]

More expensive stuff is usually better, but I used a Behringer DC9 for ages which only cost me £15! The only reason I got the Aguilar TLC (for £115 off here and it's the best comp money can buy in my opinion ), was because of the slight low end loss. It causes no problems for normal bass playing but it was noticeable on the low A string

[Bloc Riff Nut]

I use a MarkBass Compressore and it's great. You can set the Ratio;Attack;Release. This makes it very versatiile for a foot pedal and I've only read rave reviews about it. Practising at home you'll think you've wasted your money. When rehearsing you can switch it on and off and you'll hear your bass literally jump in and out of the mix. I think it cost about 200 Euros. It will certainly even out the difference between slap, finger and pick styles, but it isn't a magic box. Although it is close.

[51m0n]

[quote name='TRBboy' post='1320560' date='Jul 29 2011, 03:37 PM']No, I don't really know what the heck i'm doing which is why I posted on here asking for advice.

So you're saying that unless I'm going to have complicated, pro-standard equipment, I shouldn't bother at all? My Trace head used to have two knobs; compression low, and compression high. I found that these made a subtle difference to my sound and had the desired effect, and as I'm not a complete moron, I was able to judge how much compression to use without killing the dynamics of my playing.

I appreciate your advice, but I just find it a bit like saying that unless you buy a £3000 bass there's no point learning to play.[/quote]

No I am saying that you dont know what you are doing so you need a tool that will help you see what it is doing when you are changing parameters. Simple pedals very rarely offer the metering required to help you learn what settigns do what, the result is they will actually confuse you, and make the situation worse not better.

This is offered as advice, take it or leave it.

The Trace Dual knob compressor suffers the same failings of any single knob compressor, just twice as much, in that it has a large number of fixed parameters (ratio & threshold of the lower or higher component of the sound being all you can play with, and they are connected in the circuit IIRC). That actually limits its use massively.

I've been fascinated by compression for years, and even now I cant hear it accurately enough without some metering to help, so if you aren't absolutely superhuman, you wont hear it when its helping, instead you will hear it when its more than just helping, but also changing the timbre of your sound. You may like that change or not, thats not the point, a good compressor, set up properly should be transparent if you need it to be.

I am not saying you need a £3000 bass to start playing at all, Silverfoxnik payed about £25 on ebay for his dbx. I am saying you need a bass with 4 strings each that can be tuned independantly, adn pickups that work with electronics that work. It can (and probably should) be a Sue Ryder bass if you are just starting out. What wont do the job properly is a one string bass with no tuner!

[TRBboy]

[quote name='51m0n' post='1320598' date='Jul 29 2011, 04:14 PM']No I am saying that you dont know what you are doing so you need a tool that will help you see what it is doing when you are changing parameters. Simple pedals very rarely offer the metering required to help you learn what settigns do what, the result is they will actually confuse you, and make the situation worse not better.

This is offered as advice, take it or leave it.

The Trace Dual knob compressor suffers the same failings of any single knob compressor, just twice as much, in that it has a large number of fixed parameters (ratio & threshold of the lower or higher component of the sound being all you can play with, and they are connected in the circuit IIRC). That actually limits its use massively.

I've been fascinated by compression for years, and even now I cant hear it accurately enough without some metering to help, so if you aren't absolutely superhuman, you wont hear it when its helping, instead you will hear it when its more than just helping, but also changing the timbre of your sound. You may like that change or not, thats not the point, a good compressor, set up properly should be transparent if you need it to be.

I am not saying you need a £3000 bass to start playing at all, Silverfoxnik payed about £25 on ebay for his dbx. I am saying you need a bass with 4 strings each that can be tuned independantly, adn pickups that work with electronics that work. It can (and probably should) be a Sue Ryder bass if you are just starting out. What wont do the job properly is a one string bass with no tuner![/quote]

Thanks again for the advice, and I can see what you mean, but at this stage I think I just need something simple to get to grips with the basics. I think I will be able to hear well enough whether it's having a positive or negative effect on my sound. I don't think at this stage that I've got the time, patience or need to learn about compression in great detail, but I bow down to your superior knowledge because it's far beyond the realms of my comprehension at the moment! If I want to explore it in more detail in the future i'll be sure to get in touch!

My analogy wasn't great; what I was getting at is that a £3000 bass would far exceed the needs of a beginner, and they would possibly not be able to realise its full potential. I wasn't trying to suggest that the equipment you recommend would be prohibitively expensive.

Thanks again, and I do very much appreciate your input.


Thanks to everyone else for all the suggestions too. I imagine that something like the EBS, Markbass, or Aguilar is going to be most suitable for me at present. Anyone know if that MXR one is any good?

[dannybuoy]

It's only just come out, but there some very positive reviews on Talkbass. It has all the controls and metering of a rack compressor too!

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='dannybuoy' post='1320923' date='Jul 29 2011, 10:42 PM']It's only just come out, but there some very positive reviews on Talkbass. It has all the controls and metering of a rack compressor too![/quote]

I'm perfectly happy with my Aguilar... but i can't help being tempted by this one!

[TRBboy]

[quote name='dannybuoy' post='1320923' date='Jul 29 2011, 10:42 PM']It's only just come out, but there some very positive reviews on Talkbass. It has all the controls and metering of a rack compressor too![/quote]


Yeah it does look pretty good, and versatile without being too complicated.

Anyone have opinions on the Aphex Puch Factory?

[MarkNS4]

i used to use a DBX 266XL Compressor/Limiter/Gate and i picked it up for around 50 pound, and that was a few years ago, i found that it did the job, i now actually use the compressor built into my navigator preamp which im rather happy with and it only has ratio and threshold setting


In my opinion a compressor is a great piece of gear to have, a nice way to balance out your sound and also helps with headroom which is always a good thing


hope this helps in some way

[ThomBassmonkey]

You don't need a compressor live IMO.

I did recording at college and learned how to properly set up compression to a studio standard so I know (or rather knew, it was a few years ago now) how to listen and set them up so they do their work without being intrusive.

They CAN destroy the dynamics of your playing if used badly. Typically when used well, you can't hear that they're engaged, which makes people think they're not doing anything and turn up the ratio until they can hear it.

The biggest advantage I find they give is that they focus your sound. I'd be more likely to use one to find my own space in the mix than to equalise the volume. Technique and volume controls should do that as if you're relying on compression to fix volume problems it's probably going to sound unnatural when squashing everything into place if there's a big diffence.