Backing Tracks - selected tracks?

[ben604]

We've been gigging about 8 months now, it's all going lovely but we want to expand out musical pallet, as it were. So we want to start playing with some backing tracks for songs with a bit of piano/strings etc

Can you download backing tracks with everything apart from the usual drums, bass, guitars and vocals? OR

Could/would we download MIDI tracks and run them through my MACBOOK Pro with Logic9 as the sounds are pretty decent?

What's the general consensus? I want us to attempt Bohemian Rhapsody haha!

[BigRedX]

What's wrong with making your own?

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1232932' date='May 16 2011, 12:32 PM']What's wrong with making your own?[/quote]

+1

Much easier, cos you know where all the cues are if you put them in yourself, makes it quicker to learn to play along with 'em.

[ben604]

That's a fair point, but none of us can play a piano!

[Dave Vader]

Ah, see your point sir.
Can anyone stepwrite the parts into a midi sequencing software type thingy? Or do it with a midi guitar?

[ben604]

[quote name='Dave Vader' post='1232942' date='May 16 2011, 12:39 PM']Ah, see your point sir.
Can anyone stepwrite the parts into a midi sequencing software type thingy? Or do it with a midi guitar?[/quote]

Yeah, I figured that might be our only option. I was just seeing how others went about it.

To be fair, I work in a school, so I might be able to convince our music teacher to lay down a basic track into Logic then have a fiddle with it at home to get it how we want it.

I guess I wanted a quick and painless solution!

Cheers guys.

[BigRedX]

I've been in quite a few bands that have used pre-recorded/programmed backing, but it's always been part of the whole band sound from the outset rather than something that's been 'bolted on' afterwards.

Before you get onto how you are going to making your backing tracks the most important thing to do is check that your drummer is willing and able to play to a click track. It's surprising how many seemingly competent drummers go to pieces when they are no longer the one dictating the time keeping.

Also consider how you are going to supply the click track to the drummer, and what you are going to do in order to keep in sync with the backing when there are no drums. Do not assume that you will be able to play in time to just the backing unless it contains a dominant rhythmic percussive element and your on-stage monitoring is excellent.

Once you've got all that sorted out to your satisfaction then you can start thinking about how you are going to produce the actual backing.

[algmusic]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1232960' date='May 16 2011, 12:53 PM']I've been in quite a few bands that have used pre-recorded/programmed backing, but it's always been part of the whole band sound from the outset rather than something that's been 'bolted on' afterwards.

Before you get onto how you are going to making your backing tracks the most important thing to do is check that your drummer is willing and able to play to a click track. It's surprising how many seemingly competent drummers go to pieces when they are no longer the one dictating the time keeping.

Also consider how you are going to supply the click track to the drummer, and what you are going to do in order to keep in sync with the backing when there are no drums. Do not assume that you will be able to play in time to just the backing unless it contains a dominant rhythmic percussive element and your on-stage monitoring is excellent.

Once you've got all that sorted out to your satisfaction then you can start thinking about how you are going to produce the actual backing.[/quote]

+1 I did a gig on Saturday and the drummer wasn't bad but wasn't great with a click.. I toured with a band for 3 years on drums, but it was tricky, it's not just playing in time, but getting the band to really listen to the drums for time, but if the drummer isn't good at demanding that.. you are screwed

TBH, I think all drummers should be able to play to a click and all musicians should have good time and be able to listen to a drummers time.. but I'd love to be rich and I'm still waiting :

[ironside1966]

I will answer this before it hijacked by the it is not real music brigade and somebody suggests you use a kazoo instead. (someone did say that in a similar thread)
I do track for bands and singers but generally program my own but good results can be had by using midi files from the internet if you edit them to how you want, but I would say it is worth paying the extra for pro files because alot of the free ones are not very good. you would need a good sound module or better still good sample libbers to get the best out of them though.
What songs do you want to do because some are easier than others.

[acidbass]

There are a few websites on the net where you can download backing tracks for songs, on which you can select which instruments you want in and out of the track (like a tick box exercise). I play as part of a 3 piece band (drums, guitar/vox, bass/vox) and we are considering going down the backing track route for songs such as Rosanna. I have yet to look into pricing however!

[ben604]

[quote name='acidbass' post='1233656' date='May 16 2011, 09:25 PM']There are a few websites on the net where you can download backing tracks for songs, on which you can select which instruments you want in and out of the track (like a tick box exercise). I play as part of a 3 piece band (drums, guitar/vox, bass/vox) and we are considering going down the backing track route for songs such as Rosanna. I have yet to look into pricing however![/quote]

I think you might be thinking what I'm thinking...

[url="http://www.songgalaxy.com/"]http://www.songgalaxy.com/[/url]

They do multi-track downloads which you can use with their software or with Logic. I'm going to buy Bohemian Rhapsody tonight and prep it for practice on Friday evening...I'll let you know how we get on.

[Jamesemt]

What a great idea...be very interested to hear how you get on

[JTUK]

Getting the drummer to play to click is tough and not many can do it..although they all think they can.

Monitoring is CRUCIAL but so is maintaining that groove. I wouldn't put any time into sequences until you have nailed this..waste of time otherwise.

[algmusic]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1234179' date='May 17 2011, 12:29 PM']Getting the drummer to play to click is tough and not many can do it..although they all think they can.

Monitoring is CRUCIAL but so is maintaining that groove. I wouldn't put any time into sequences until you have nailed this..waste of time otherwise.[/quote]

I do think no one will listen to our warnings.. so far no replied to me mentioning this..

[JTUK]

...

It will be no disgrace to admit defeat over this... so I'll be interested to see if the OP comes back after trying this in rehearsal, with his observations..!!!

[ben604]

The drummer's my Brother. He's played to click tracks before, so I'm fairly confident it'll be ok. Not to mention the piano in Bohemian Rhapsody is fairly percussive, so we should be fine. I don't play with backline so we've had to invest in decent monitors, so that side is fine.

Anyway, while I'll heed your warnings, we can only try. I'm certainly not going to not even try because it [i]might[/i] not work.

[algmusic]

[quote name='ben604' post='1234212' date='May 17 2011, 12:51 PM']The drummer's my Brother. He's played to click tracks before, so I'm fairly confident it'll be ok. Not to mention the piano in Bohemian Rhapsody is fairly percussive, so we should be fine. I don't play with backline so we've had to invest in decent monitors, so that side is fine.

Anyway, while I'll heed your warnings, we can only try. I'm certainly not going to not even try because it [i]might[/i] not work.[/quote]


For the drummer, him a little mixer and some inear headphones.. the isolation is the key

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='algmusic' post='1234237' date='May 17 2011, 01:07 PM']For the drummer, him a little mixer and some inear headphones.. the isolation is the key[/quote]

Our drummer hates the in ear stuff, he wears big studio phones when we play out. Yes, it is funny.

[algmusic]

[quote name='Dave Vader' post='1234342' date='May 17 2011, 02:33 PM']Our drummer hates the in ear stuff, he wears big studio phones when we play out. Yes, it is funny. [/quote]

horses for courses i guess.. I find 'good' inears protect your ears, as you get less bleed for outside noise so you don't have to turn it up over loud.. I can still play very loud and my ears don't take a beating :-). Using the mixer gives me the blend of the click and the rest of the band, plus a little kick drum..

Recently did an ear test and I have very good hearing, above average..

[BassBunny]

+1 for MiDi tracks. Easy to "tweak" and dead easy to remove the parts you don't want.
You can get virtually any MiDi track for free on t'internet. Obviously need a MiDi player.
If MP3's are your choice, one of the sax players also does solo work and gets her MP3 tracks from here. Completely customisable and fantastic quality.
[url="http://www.karaoke-version.com/"]MP3 Backing Tracks[/url]

[BigRedX]

[quote name='ben604' post='1234212' date='May 17 2011, 12:51 PM']The drummer's my Brother. He's played to click tracks before, so I'm fairly confident it'll be ok. Not to mention the piano in Bohemian Rhapsody is fairly percussive, so we should be fine. I don't play with backline so we've had to invest in decent monitors, so that side is fine.

Anyway, while I'll heed your warnings, we can only try. I'm certainly not going to not even try because it [i]might[/i] not work.[/quote]
Absolutely go for it. However I would make sure that your band can cope with the technicalities required first before you tackle the specifics.

The voices of doubt like algmusic and myself are speaking from experience. I know I've been through most of the complications and know what will definitely work no matter how dire the acoustics and monitoring are and what will only be OK in the most perfect audio situation. I have discovered from bitter experience that what was easy to play with in rehearsal can become all but inaudible in a gig situation.

Don't assume for a minute that the piano part to Bohemian Rhapsody is percussive enough for you to follow without additional help. Remember that every extra source you stick through the fold back makes it harder to hear and pitch the vocals. Also your backing track is like a musician playing without listening to what the other musicians are doing and cannot compensate for any mistakes that the live musicians may make. A real pianist will be listening to the other instruments and adjusting to match what they are doing including coping with missing or unplanned repeats of verses/lines. The backing can't do this and plough on its pre-set course regardless of what the other musicians are playing.

It is essential that you treat the backing track like to conductor of an orchestra. It is always right and if you're not in time/tune with it then it is you who is wrong. Make sure that that cannot happen and you'll be fine.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Dave Vader' post='1234342' date='May 17 2011, 02:33 PM']Our drummer hates the in ear stuff, he wears big studio phones when we play out. Yes, it is funny. [/quote]
Making sure that the drummer is comfortable is the most important thing when playing to a "click".

Pretty much every drummer that I've worked with has their own preferences for what they want to hear and how they want to hear it. Get this right and you're half way there.

[acidbass]

I think a lot of drummers actually prefer to have a stage monitor when listening to the click, instead of headphones, as they get a more general idea of what's going on and avoid feeling isolated. You have to remember that they're musicians too (apparently?) and not just timekeepers. I read a good article a few weeks ago about panning the click to the left and the music to the right - is this the way it's normally done?

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='acidbass' post='1235072' date='May 17 2011, 11:33 PM']I think a lot of drummers actually prefer to have a stage monitor when listening to the click, instead of headphones, as they get a more general idea of what's going on and avoid feeling isolated. You have to remember that they're musicians too (apparently?) and not just timekeepers. I read a good article a few weeks ago about panning the click to the left and the music to the right - is this the way it's normally done?[/quote]

Fine on a big stage, but if you're in a small venue the stage monitors bleed to the crowd, and clicks just sound sh1te to the audience.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Dave Vader' post='1235401' date='May 18 2011, 11:06 AM']Fine on a big stage, but if you're in a small venue the stage monitors bleed to the crowd, and clicks just sound sh1te to the audience.[/quote]
Agreed.

I played in one band where the drummer didn't use headphones but played along to a programmed drum machine part in his monitor. That's what he found easiest and most comfortable. This was originals though so the songs that used sequenced backing were constructed in such a way that having a drum machine rhythm part running all the way through sounded right.

If it's a straight click you really don't want it to be audible to anyone but the musicians on stage. On of the side effects of just using a click is that when the drummer is spot on in time the click tends to disappear because it is being masked by the drums which can then cause the drummer to go out of time. Usually they get around this by having the click considerably louder in their headphone mix then the other instruments. I've done a gig where our drummer's headphone mixer failed just before we went on stage and we had to run the click through the drum monitor. Unfortunately at the volume he needed it, it was clearly audible out front in all but the loudest parts of the songs. Not good or professional sounding.