iconic Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 (edited) editied version....still struggling to get over what I mean.... Can anyone help me to 'think' what the 'sounds' of modes would be recognisable to? I got some, but some are missing and would like comments are to if this list is [b]generally[/b] OK? [b]Ionian = think major Aeolian = think natural minor Mixolydian = think blues Phrygian = think egyption...or spanish flamenco Dorian = think....? Lydian = think....? Locrian = think...?[/b] Edited May 6, 2011 by iconic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Ionian = think Ionian Aeolian = think Aeolian Mixolydian = think Mixolydian Phyrigian = think Phrygian Dorian = think Dorian Lydian = think Lydian Locrian = think Locrian or, alternatively Ionian = think Major Aeolian = think Major a minor third tone above Mixolydian = think Major a fourth below or fifth above Phyrigian = think Major a major third below Dorian = think Major a whole tone below Lydian = think Major a fourth above or a fifth below Locrian = think Major a semi tone higher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted May 6, 2011 Author Share Posted May 6, 2011 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1221971' date='May 6 2011, 09:58 AM']Ionian = think Ionian Aeolian = think Aeolian Mixolydian = think Mixolydian Phyrigian = think Phrygian Dorian = think Dorian Lydian = think Lydian Locrian = think Locrian or, alternatively Ionian = think Major Aeolian = think Major a minor third tone above Mixolydian = think Major a fourth below or fifth above Phyrigian = think Major a major third below Dorian = think Major a whole tone below Lydian = think Major a fourth above or a fifth below Locrian = think Major a semi tone higher[/quote] uh, what I wrote didn't come across, my fault, it's more how the modes 'sound' I was trying to get at...so I can think how/where/when I might hear them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I know what you were saying, iconic. I just think you are making it more complicated for yourself than it needs to be. You are trying to find an alterrnativc word which you already understand for something that there is already a word for that you [i]already[/i] understand (otherwsie you could not articulate your concept). All I was saying, in my obtuse way, was that you only (only, he says?) need to understand the individual sounds of the modes and associated chords to find a use for them. Calling them major and minor or bluesy or flamenco is just replacing perfectly usable names with other perfectly usable names so you can simplify and already fairly simple concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I would agree with Bilbo to some extent, and disagree with Bilbo to some extent. The names of the modes are perfectly useable names and I would strive to call them that and use them to describe those scales. But I would say that to understand those scales and their qualities, it is important to identify qualities in those scales that relate to things you already know and are familiar with. This context is what will give it meaning, and more importantly, give it meaning that means something to you. I did exactly the same thing to get to the bottom of modes and what they sound like, what moods they evoke, etc. But it's pointless any of us telling you what I think they sound like - you need to try them and figure out what YOU think they sound like. This will give them meaning to you so you can understand how best to use each of them. Play around with them, what do they remind you of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1221971' date='May 6 2011, 09:58 AM']Ionian = think Major Aeolian = think Major a minor third tone above Mixolydian = think Major a fourth below or fifth above Phyrigian = think Major a major third below Dorian = think Major a whole tone below Lydian = think Major a fourth above or a fifth below Locrian = think Major a semi tone higher[/quote] I'm pretty up on the modes,but you've managed to confuse me there Bilbo. But,I do agree that you are maybe complicating things by trying to find different terms for the modes. For example,you said 'Mixolydian=think blues',but if you take the blues scale you'll find it is more like the Dorian mode than Mixolydian. If you think that Ionian,Lydian and Mixolydian are basically major scales and the others are minor it makes things a little easier. So using that logic...... Ionian=major Dorian= minor (#6) Phrygian=minor (b2) Lydian =major (#4) Mixolydian =major (b7) Aeolian =minor Locrian =minor (b2,b5) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Rich Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Dorian = Good Times [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTusMLs9SJE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTusMLs9SJE[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted May 6, 2011 Author Share Posted May 6, 2011 [quote name='Fat Rich' post='1222141' date='May 6 2011, 12:38 PM']Dorian = Good Times [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTusMLs9SJE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTusMLs9SJE[/url][/quote] nice one, one of my regular noodles, thanks for the help.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GonzoBass Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I follow you... Dorian - Funky in a Motown way Locrian - Angry in a Heavy Metal way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted May 7, 2011 Author Share Posted May 7, 2011 [quote name='GonzoBass' post='1222550' date='May 6 2011, 08:15 PM']I follow you... Dorian - Funky in a Motown way Locrian - Angry in a Heavy Metal way[/quote] cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Lydian = Steve Vai, it's one of his preferred modes to solo with. Don't know if this helps or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Dorian - So What by Miles Davis - its all Dorian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 (edited) I think what Bilbo is getting at (and it's also how I like to view modes) is that everyone of the modes is derived from a mother, major harmony centre (key) I like that approach because it means that learning one scale over the whole instrument gives muscle memory access to all the modes found within, so then it's learning to use stresses and groupings and how to 'handle' a sound that is the way to achieve fluency as the mechanics have already been taken care of Eg I play every key from the lowest to the highest note on the instrument and make changes to the order of notes as dictated by the key signature, that way you realise that some incarnation of any given sound is within reach wherever you are. It's also worth noting that every scale contains either E or Eb and F or F# so you can go from the bottom to the top (of a four string bass) just changing the order of notes to achieve the desired sound. (I also use this idea positionally eg 1st 5 frets then 5-9/10 then 10/11- 14 then I think of the fretboard as repeating itself) Another way to view this is that I play scales from any starting point, not necessarily the root and therefore using what's at your disposal (in a given position) to make a successful rendition of a sound or tonal quality of the chord becomes more important, which in turn leads to a more thorough understanding of the significance of a note within a given context. It sounds very complex in text but in demonstration in sound is very easy to grasp. Edited May 7, 2011 by jakesbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 [quote name='paul_5' post='1222864' date='May 7 2011, 08:55 AM']Lydian = Steve Vai, it's one of his preferred modes to solo with. Don't know if this helps or not.[/quote] Which he inherited from Frank Zappa no doubt as Franks compositions are littered with Lydian devices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 [quote name='Fat Rich' post='1222141' date='May 6 2011, 12:38 PM']Dorian = Good Times [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTusMLs9SJE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTusMLs9SJE[/url][/quote] Not strictly all it is, as the sequence is II-V, therefore from a modal perspective it's mixolydian too. If you laboured the dorian sound over the second chord in the sequence you would really miss the importance of the C#-G relationship of the A7 chord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Rich Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 [quote name='jakesbass' post='1223247' date='May 7 2011, 02:29 PM']Not strictly all it is, as the sequence is II-V, therefore from a modal perspective it's mixolydian too. If you laboured the dorian sound over the second chord in the sequence you would really miss the importance of the C#-G relationship of the A7 chord.[/quote] True enough, but the first half of the riff is about as pure dorian mode as you're going to get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 [quote name='Fat Rich' post='1223339' date='May 7 2011, 04:01 PM']True enough, but the first half of the riff is about as pure dorian mode as you're going to get.[/quote] indeed because it is in fact simply a dorian scale, who'd have thought it.... (shock horror) a bassline... no THE bassline made of a simple scale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 [quote name='jakesbass' post='1223354' date='May 7 2011, 04:12 PM']indeed because it is in fact simply a dorian scale, who'd have thought it.... (shock horror) a bassline... no THE bassline made of a simple scale [/quote] Good, I was getting worried that it was going to be something other than: Dum de dum de dum dum dum....... (That's me!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveK Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 [quote name='jakesbass' post='1223247' date='May 7 2011, 02:29 PM']Not strictly all it is, as the sequence is II-V, therefore from a modal perspective it's mixolydian too. [b]If you laboured the dorian sound over the second chord[/b] in the sequence you would really miss the importance of the C#-G relationship of the A7 chord.[/quote] But, that's not how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 (edited) [quote name='SteveK' post='1223479' date='May 7 2011, 05:51 PM'] But, that's not how it goes.[/quote] Exactly... which is why calling it strictly Dorian is (as I pointed out) incorrect And, I'm talking about scales in context, and the usual reason for wanting to know what scales fit chord sequences is for the purposes of improvising over them. I was simply pointing out that the whole line is derived from two modes not one. Edited May 7, 2011 by jakesbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 [quote name='jakesbass' post='1223229' date='May 7 2011, 02:20 PM']Which he inherited from Frank Zappa no doubt as Franks compositions are littered with Lydian devices.[/quote] Oh yeah, Zappa too. Vai may be a [i]leeeetle[/i] more accessible though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.i.stein Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 dorian and lydia, had 'em both. pretentious, the pair of 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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