Head to head review - Ibanez Promethean Combo 5110 vs. Genz-Benz 3.0-310T

[Grand Wazoo]

I've read an interesting side to side review between the Ibanez Promethean and the Genz Benz 3.0-310T on this link: [url="http://melodyvalley.ca/bassplayersunited/2011/04/gear-review-ibanez-promethean-combo-5110-vs-genz-benz-3-0-310t/"]http://melodyvalley.ca/bassplayersunited/2...-benz-3-0-310t/[/url]
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Ibanez Promethean Combo 5110 vs. Genz-Benz 3.0-310T

With manufacturers shocked at China’s latest moves into cornering and capitalizing the market for the magnet material Neodymium, speaker and amp makers are now scrambling for a dwindling supply and dealing with skyrocketing prices. Rumours are spreading fast that the speaker market will not be supplied with ANY of it as China clamps down on production, with all of the current supply going into medicinal and industrial uses. Now may be the last chance for a while to get into one of these micro-amps before they are discontinued or made substantially heavier by going back to ceramic magnets. We thought it would be a good time to give our review of two of them; one with a neo speaker, and one with a ceramic speaker (but who’s extension cabinet has a neo speaker).

Genz-Benz 3.0-310T

List Price - $999.00

Street Price - $799.00

Specs

Shuttle 3.0 head:

3 bands of EQ with semi-parametric mids

3-band signal shape circuit

Tuner out

Headphone jack

Aux. input

Limiter circuit

LED status indicators

Speakon and 1/4″ speaker outputs

Full XLR direct out interface

Cab:

10″ neodymium woofer and soft-dome neodymium tweeter with attenuation control

The cab is a Birch-ply, with heavy duty vinyl covering

175W as combo/300W with ext. cab

Protected corners

Metal speaker grille

Dimensions: 14″W x 15.5″H x 11.75″D

Weight: 18.75 lbs. as combo (16 lbs. for cab, 2.75 lbs. for head)

Design & Features

Shockingly light, when you pick up the Genz-Benz Shuttle 3.0 – 10T, there feels like there couldn’t possibly be anything at all inside this thing; it feels like an empty birch-plywood box with a handle on the top – incredible! For it to be a bass amp of some substance is really quite amazing, especially for someone who grew up slogging an Ampeg B15S (the BIG one – 60 watts!) with an Altec 15” speaker in it (well in excess of 100 lbs, and back-breakingly awkward for one person to lift) back in the day. I could walk five blocks to the bus with this amp, especially in the over-the-shoulder bag available as an option: you truly could have your bass in one hand and your amp in the other. It has some nice features, such as the removable head, the tilt-back function of the cab, decent tone controls, bass boost, mid scoop, treble boost. There is good metering with LED’s, lots of pro features on this little thing. I did find the lettering on the controls to be very small and fine and hard to read, no big deal once you get used to it, but possible a problem on dim stages for your first few gigs.

The design itself is really quite utilitarian, nothing really fancy, everything for the purpose of bass amplification and with little or no elements of style. I found the handle/amp fastener to be quite ugly from the first time I saw this rig, and I immediately thought that, being made from brittle plastic, ‘this isn’t going to last long’. Time will tell, I guess; the amp is so light, it will probably be OK, it just doesn’t LOOK like it will. Not a great looking unit, serviceable, but generally very well made.



Sound

Well, there’s GOT to be some tradeoffs, and this is it. While it is touted as being a pro amp, and has quite a lot of output for the size and weight of the rig, the sound of the Genz-Benz can only be described as ‘anaemic’ and ‘scratchy’, closely resembling the ‘SWR’ zero-bottom but super clean and sterile kind of sound. I found myself reaching for the tone knobs immediately, adding a TON of bottom on the bass control (almost maxxing it out, actually), dialing in 75% low mids, bass boost on, and had to roll off a ton of treble and wished there was one more tone control, as I still had that nasty high-mid scratchiness that I have come to associate with neodymium speakers that I would LOVE to have gotten rid of, but couldn’t. While this sound would ‘cut-through’ in a band situation and with a moderately loud drummer, I could never really get a sound I was comfortable with, something that sounded like a bass, and that would definitely affect my playing in a bad way; it would bug me the whole time I was dealing with it. Love the portability, I just hate the sound. Well, perhaps hate is too strong a word…I hate practice amps: those things are truly horrible. This is a long way from that, lots of power in that little box, but still NOT a sound I could learn to love. Plugged in flat, it was scratchy, harsh, extremely trebley, just plain nasty, with pretty much NO bottom end at all. Sounded like a bi-amp system with the sub-woofer missing and the treble on full-blast. The amp was good enough that I could EQ some of it back, but I could never quite get there. Too bad; I LOVE the size/weight. The sound….well…nah!

Conclusion

I play MTD American 635-24 basses, fretted and fretless, and have delved into high-fi bass sound since the late 70’s, having sold my last Ampig, and at one point in my bass playing life, I owned a rack-mount, tri-amped bass system weighing in at close to 500 lbs. I currently own a Berg IP112ER stack, with Summit Audio tube front end gear, and have used Lexicon Multi-effect units since the early 90’s, so I’m not into the ‘retro’ sound, having grown up being STUCK with that one farty, fluffy, woofy underpowered sound. I love clean, clear, deep, punchy, crisp, bright and LOUD bass, with tons of dynamic range. I truly believe this is the golden age of bass, with SO MUCH good gear available; the Berg system I own right now is the BEST sounding rig I have ever heard and owned, and is also one of the smallest. That being said, it is still a minimum of two pieces, a 4 space rack, weighing close to 50 lbs, with a single-twelve-and-a-tweeter self-powered cab weighing about the same, and I would LOVE to have a little practice amp for teaching in various locations and for rehearsals – the proverbial bass-in-one-hand-amp-in-the-other. Have we got there yet…er…I could probably get by with the Genz-Benz, maybe, I certainly appreciate the astonishing light weight and teeny size, but I have to EQ the crap out of it to get a serviceable sound, and by the time I’ve done that, the peak light is freaking out, and there is very little power or headroom left. The cabinet, I think, is to blame, just not being voiced for the kind of bass sound I am after – studio monitor clean, with deep bass but with punch and a nice crisp, focussed top end. I couldn’t quite get there with this amp…close, but no cigar. I wanted to really like this amp, desperately, but just didn’t. Clean, clear, quite loud, certainly light and portable, just NO bottom end. 12/10 for portability, 6.5/10 if you include sound in your adjudication.

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Ibanez Promethean Combo 5110

List Price - $933.32

Street Price - $699.00

Specs

P500H Head:

6-band graphic EQ AND bass and treble controls

Peak limiting circuit

‘Vibe’ control changes tone from vintage (HF rolloff) to modern (scooped mids – bass treble boost) bass tones

2-way Clip Indicator

Auxiliary input (1/8″)

Balance line out (XLR)

Phones out, tuner out (1/8″)

Footswitch jack (Mute/Vibe)

Detachable P500H head puts out 250W with the combo, 500W with an extension cab

Cab:

Front-ported 10″ subwoofer rated at 250W

High frequency dome tweeter with passive crossover

Tilt-back system

Metal grille speaker cover

Weight: 28 lb.

Dimensions: 12-4/5″ W x 13-1/10″ H x 14-1/5″

Design & Features

Substantially heavier than the Genz, the Ibanez Promethean is still very portable at 28 lbs, but certainly a bit more of a lift – wouldn’t want to do 5 blocks with it; 2 or 3 would be doable, but I’d need a rest (once maybe). This is due to the fact that it is not a neo speaker in their cabinet, but a conventional ceramic one. But from the car to the rehearsal/gig/teaching session, fantastic! Light as a Feather (quoting one of the greatest jazz albums of all time). And the Ibanez is a beautiful looking amp, in fact, I would say the nicest looking combo on the market, better than stuff twice the price or more (Markbass, Epifani, AER et al). The cab is beautifully done in a glossy spray bed-liner type coating, and the amp itself is a glistening brilliant deep-red enamel finish that is just gorgeous and is absolutely first class. One minor nit-picky point – I personally would prefer recessed black rubber O-ring surrounds on the knobs, just for a little contrast and for lack of slip on sweaty, hot stages, but talk about nit-picky, the Promethean is a BEAUTIFUL piece of kit, looking far better than it’s price point; it’s an absolutely gorgeous little thing.

GREAT tone controls, both with the standard shelving bass and treble controls, as well as a superb bass-focussed graphic section a la the Trace-Elliots I have loved so much in the past – brilliant! There’s a bypass button for the graphic, with an LED, and this is the BEST way to visually see where your tone controls are at AT A GLANCE even on the darkest of stages, and whether they are engaged or not. Fantastic, and thanks for bringing these back; and in an amp at THIS price point, totally amazing, Ibanez! Also, the overall layout and visual display on this head is fantastic, especially considering this is Ibanez’ first foray into serious bass amps; up to now, they have done nothing but very bad very cheap practice amps. The head layout and design is fantastic, and I love the way they have four small thumb screws to lock it into the recess in the back of the cabinet, yielding clean, clear surfaces that are not going to snag your pants or ruin the back seat of your car (another mark against the Genz-Benz). Now if they had only recessed the knobs themselves…ahem! The ‘Vibe’ control is very much like the VC thingy on the Markbass amps; it progressively rolls off the treble and institutes just the slightest bit of grind into the sound, if modern hi-fi ain’t yo thang. Roll it all the way the other way, and you have a bit of a mid-scoop coupled with sparkly treble and slightly deeper bass – cool! AND, they’ve put a switch on it so you can set up a solo sound and INSTANTLY bypass it…they’ve thought of almost everything.

The cabinet, similarly, looks totally pro, modern, and FANTASTIC, and have the handy tilt-back function with a twist – it’s rubber coated handle will not likely rattle ever! The top-mounted handle is nicely recessed, so you can put stuff on top of the amp without causing problems. And no sharp edges anywhere, so again no snagging on car seat fabric (Genz…are you listening? Your tilt-back handle would be TERRIBLE for that!). Also, I personally like the front end port, so you can get some of the air coming out at you, helping to flap your pants and kick you in the shins, which…well, we’ll get to that.



Sound

For something this small and light – FANTASTIC! I actually couldn’t believe it. This is one of the best sounding amps on the market, regardless of price, size weight…the Ibanez Promethean NAILS IT! Amazing! Punchy, deep, crispy, bright, great NATURAL midrange (the hardest and most expensive thing to do in audio), and with the back pickup only on my MTD, I only had to dial in a teeny bit of low end to get the sound I was after. This amp displays not the slighest bit of boxiness, and has great dynamic range. The Promethean felt SUBSTANTIALLY more powerful than the Genz, actually in a different league totally, inspite of the fact that it was actually significantly cheaper and only rated at an extra 80 watts. This is THE bass sound I am after, and that I believe most bass players will respond to very favorably, certainly MUCH more so than the Genz IMHO. And with the powerful tone shaping tools they’ve included, I could EQ in everything from Family Man Barrett to Jaco, still have headroom to spare, and be able to switch it all off instantly. It would also be great for pretty much everything, as it is studio-monitor kind of flat – you could plug in a string bass (and have enough EQ to deal with feedback – boom issues), acoustic bass guitar (same deal here), vocals, keys, accordion, saxophone, pretty much anything and it would sound good…this is just a great neutral platform. It is truly a Great Little Amp, with a capital G. I also had the chance to play it with it’s companion 10” neo extension, which is quite a bit bigger but substantially lighter – what a massive little rig! Ibanez have really done this right by putting the Neo speaker in a substantially bigger and more heavily ported box to get that low-mid punch which most neo’s are missing (replaced with, usually, fluffy, woofy, useless low end ‘chuff’ and scratchy, nasty, harsh, nasally, bright upper mids); they have voiced this thing right, to go with and to enhance the sound of the ceramic driver in the combo amp. And SUBSTANTIAL volume to go with the great sound – this mini-stack could keep up with all but the most out-of-control drummers. The Genz felt kind of underpowered to me, I’ve got a feeling their watt numbers are slightly fudged, but this thing FELLS LIKE a true 500 watts…great sound, lots of EQ available and you’ll still have some headroom and dynamic range left. Fantastic. Sorry to rant on like this, but for about $700.00, this is the best deal in the bass world. I have played combos at twice the price that I don’t like as much.

Conclusion

All in all, sound, size, style, layout, Ibanez has got a major league winner here, including even an 1/8” aux input for your iPod/iPhone for practicing, also a major plus. One BIG omission for me, but it won’t be for most bass players…no effects loop…bummer! A compressor would be nice to have in that circuit, and I personally am such a purist in signal paths that I REFUSE to put effects in line (in the front end of an amp) – you’re preamping a preamp by doing that, in case you don’t know…and you’ve just preamped all the noise that your effect unit makes…not a good thing. Effect loops are for EFFECTS, kids – use ‘em! But there is so much GREAT stuff happening here in the Promethean, that is not really a deal breaker.

To wrap up, the Promethean 5110 is an absolutely BRILLIANT amp, first class engineering, amazing sound, features, portability, and a gorgeous, stylish, elegant and sophisticated exterior. This is a $2,000.00 amp in a $699.00 package…maybe I shouldn’t say that, as Ibanez might put the price up! Does it sound as good as my $7,000.00 Berg/Summit/Lexicon stack? No…but, a lower volumes, it’s close…really, really close. And for $699.00 street, the rest of the bass amp world should be cowering in fear. I want two so I can run stereo.

9.5/10. If they had only put recessed rubber O-rings on those knobs…an effects loop. At this price, as close to perfect as you can get.

Edited April 29, 2011 by Grand Wazoo

[wateroftyne]

It's worth bearing in mind that the Promethean is about £150 cheaper than the Genz, too.

(I've never used the Genz, so I can't comment on it. I just know the Promethean is astonishing.)

[gafbass02]

I've owned both and I gotta say, although I quite liked the sound on the genz I agree with every word said. As soon as I can afford it I'm gonna try a promethean again (third time lucky?!) I really liked the sound of the head and the graphic. Very 'mini trace'. Which is very much my bag. Hmm maybe if I sold my shuttle 9.0 I could afford a used little mark/f1 and a promethean. Hmmm....

[Musicman20]

Great that for once the cheaper option is better!

[OzMike]

Hmmm ... haven't tried the Ibanez, but I know from experience any potential thoughts of 'missing bottom end' with a GB Shuttle 6.0 (close enough to the 3.0) go out the window when playing live; this 'missing bass' is often unwanted flub in that that environment.

From the wording of the review it seems neither amp was tried in a band setting or with other instruments. Unless you are intending on playing solo gigs, reviews should *always* include a 'live band' portion, otherwise the comparison is still theoretical, not a 'real world' one.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='OzMike' post='1214780' date='Apr 29 2011, 12:21 PM']Hmmm ... haven't tried the Ibanez, but I know from experience any potential thoughts of 'missing bottom end' with a GB Shuttle 6.0 (close enough to the 3.0) go out the window when playing live; this 'missing bass' is often unwanted flub in that that environment.

From the wording of the review it seems neither amp was tried in a band setting or with other instruments. Unless you are intending on playing solo gigs, reviews should *always* include a 'live band' portion, otherwise the comparison is still theoretical, not a 'real world' one.[/quote]

In fairness both amps were tried with 10" speakers alone so its not a bad test even as a Genz fan so fair play to the promethean but if the head were taken from the Genz (cant do that with a combo) and put into a full size cab which is the idea really to use it as a practice amp then you take a 2x10/2x12 or 4x10 to proper gigs and the shoe will be very much on the other foot, The Genz owner just has to buy an extra cab the Promethean owner needs an amp and a cab! Who's £150 is looking as good now? A Class D head (of personal brand taste) and a selection of cabs (of personal brand taste) is FTW IMO

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1214905' date='Apr 29 2011, 02:03 PM']In fairness both amps were tried with 10" speakers alone so its not a bad test even as a Genz fan so fair play to the promethean but if the head were taken from the Genz (cant do that with a combo) and put into a full size cab which is the idea really to use it as a practice amp then you take a 2x10/2x12 or 4x10 to proper gigs and the shoe will be very much on the other foot, The Genz owner just has to buy an extra cab the Promethean owner needs an amp and a cab! Who's £150 is looking as good now? A Class D head (of personal brand taste) and a selection of cabs (of personal brand taste) is FTW IMO [/quote]
*pssssst*

The Promethean head can be removed in seconds....

[Musicman20]

Yep, both can be removed. From personal experience Genz amps are great but the SL series gives me that HEFT that I need as a bassist. The Shuttles are great for the player who wants that tone, and the 9.0 has more beef to the bottom end.

If I ever get a small combo, it would be the Ibanez. Total bargain price, and more power should you remove it compare to the 3.0.

[derrenleepoole]

The Ibanez Promethean is a stunning bit of kit, and the head can be removed making it truly versatile for ANY setting, unlike most micro combo's in this field. Get the head hooked up to a big 15" speaker, and the tone and volume is tremendous! The versatility of the EQ and vibe controls on this unit make for very varied tone that can be dialed in and out with just the press of a switch, no other combo offers such diversity I believe.

An absolutely great review of both combo's BTW. But I suspect many people are skeptical that a 'cheap' amp can be a good amp simply because it's by Ibanez. I've come across this attitude many times before. Mind you, when people hear it, they soon change their tune

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='1214911' date='Apr 29 2011, 02:07 PM']*pssssst*

The Promethean head can be removed in seconds....[/quote]
Good point Although my post is aimed at a general combo vs micro amp anyway. I will alter it;

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1214905' date='Apr 29 2011, 02:03 PM']In fairness both amps were tried with 10" speakers alone so its not a bad test even as a Genz fan so fair play to the promethean but if the heads were taken from the amps (cant do that with a combo) and put into a full size cab which is the idea really to use it as a practice amp then you take a 2x10/2x12 or 4x10 to proper gigs, The Micro amp owners just have to buy an extra cab but the combo owners needs an amp and a cab! A Class D head (of personal brand taste) and a selection of cabs (of personal brand taste) is FTW IMO [/quote]


How's that?

Edited April 29, 2011 by stingrayPete1977

[eude]

Nice to see the little Promethean getting some well deserved love.
I seriously can't get over how good they are!
I'm surprised the uptake hasn't been much greater, but they'll get there for sure if they continue in the same direction,

'Mon the Prometheans!

Eude

[Feelgood]

Interesting review. The Promethean's definitely tempting!

A slightly less convenient option obviously but anybody able to comment on how the Promethean P5110 combo compares to the P500H head and P110C set-up soundwise?

[Grand Wazoo]

[quote name='eude' post='1215010' date='Apr 29 2011, 03:20 PM']Nice to see the little Promethean getting some well deserved love.
I seriously can't get over how good they are!
I'm surprised the uptake hasn't been much greater, but they'll get there for sure if they continue in the same direction,

'Mon the Prometheans!

Eude[/quote]

I've had mine since August 2010, gigs, rehearsal, but mostly it lives with me on the ship, never skipped a beat, and with the added bonus of the aux input makes it the ultimate companion for the "travelling" or "practicing" bassist. You get quality, portability at no compromise whatsoever to sound and feel.

What the reviewer said it's true that you can get an incredible array of sound settings for such a small amp. The graphic eq can be be switched on and off and the vibe control it's like pouring "gold top" milk on your coffee, hmmmm very creamy! (anyone remembers gold top milk?)

p.s.: for all the non believers out there, I have hooked it to both a 4 x 10" and a 1 x 15" and it was amazing, you'd think it was a much bigger and expensive rig.

I don't mind telling you that stuff that won't cut the mustard, doesn't stay long in my house. And this amp together with my Ashdown Drophead, and my Mark Bass CMD102P are all keepers.

Edited April 29, 2011 by Grand Wazoo

[niceguyhomer]

I hate threads like this...it makes we want to buy one (Ibanez) and I have the mahoney to do so and I am currently looking at what I use to practice but then I read a load of negative stuff about them and it puts me right off.

I realise I'm a whinging old PITA and should just buy one and see what all the hoohaa is about

[eude]

[quote name='niceguyhomer' post='1215139' date='Apr 29 2011, 05:42 PM']I hate threads like this...it makes we want to buy one (Ibanez) and I have the mahoney to do so and I am currently looking at what I use to practice but then I read a load of negative stuff about them and it puts me right off.

I realise I'm a whinging old PITA and should just buy one and see what all the hoohaa is about [/quote]

The only bad stuff I've heard was over in the US, bar gafbass's experience.
It's not really a gamble when you can send it back...

Go on, you know you want too

Eude

[gafbass02]

And to be fair Thomann made it all very easy.

[Grand Wazoo]

[quote name='gafbass02' post='1215223' date='Apr 29 2011, 06:58 PM']And to be fair Thomann made it all very easy. [/quote]

Yeah but... now people down here realized that Thomann was breaking their legs and started to figth back, now you can get it cheaper in UK free of delivery charges:

[url="http://www.effectpowersupplies.com/ibanez-promethean-p5110-combo-1131-p.asp"]http://www.effectpowersupplies.com/ibanez-...ombo-1131-p.asp[/url]

[acidbass]

Just invested in one of these little fellas - ordered Friday evening and it was shipped Saturday morning so hopefully will have it this week! I'm really looking forward to receiving it, will hopefully get a chance to do a full review of it in a couple of weeks time once she's been put through the motions with gigs and rehearsals etc.

[Musicman20]

If I see one for the original £499 with delivery and gig bag ill probably snap it up.

[eude]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1216715' date='May 1 2011, 05:45 PM']If I see one for the original £499 with delivery and gig bag ill probably snap it up.[/quote]

Seriously dude, the bag is only useable as a case to protect it, absolutely useless for carrying it around in...

[derrenleepoole]

[quote name='eude' post='1216834' date='May 1 2011, 08:03 PM']Seriously dude, the bag is only useable as a case to protect it, absolutely useless for carrying it around in...[/quote]

+1 - protects the amp very well, but the strap isn't well placed - you wouldn't want to do a long trek with it on your shoulder. Needs some grab handles on the side for it to be a real winner in my book. But hey, that's just a minor quibble!

[Musicman20]

Nah I wouldnt use it for carrying, just for protection when its in the back of the new acoustic bands van...which is normally filled with other bits and bobs as well.

[Musicman20]

Are there any nice pics/video reviews of this amp?

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1229408' date='May 12 2011, 10:27 PM']Are there any nice pics/video reviews of this amp?[/quote]
There's a couple of bits on YouTube, but there's not as much as there should be.