bass solos in jazz

[Doddy]

[quote name='ras52' post='1185585' date='Apr 2 2011, 09:39 AM']I agree with your disagreement :-) Some of the best solos, yes, but also some of the worst! I'm thinking of gigs I've seen where the bass player puts in a half-hearted solo, leading me to think that he'd rather not but that the form and/or bandmates required it.[/quote]

Then that is purely down to the ego of the particular player. No one has to solo on ever tune if they don't want to or aren't feeling it.

[Luulox]

lots of interesting replies. i really enjoyed the James Planton bass on 'pitter panther patter'! I will listen to the players various people have name checked. I do appreciate the skills that must be needed to perform the solos, and i never really thought about form and the need for other players to take a back seat for a few bars. In my opinion jazz is not as instantly accessable as many types of music and the nuances and interplay between the musicians takes time and study to appreciate.
Cheers
Pete

[Truckstop]

I actually particularly like acoustic/URB solos in a jazz setting. It's nice to hear a solo from something that isn't harsh like a trumpet, sax or organ. If the accompanying musicians manage to keep the groove going, it can be very satisfying.
I can also appreciate the skill and mastery that goes into freeform soloing more than I can other instruments because I don't know them so well. I can see when a bassplayer is pulling off some incredible chops that I might completely miss on another instrument.

Truckstop

[Doddy]

[quote name='Truckstop' post='1185771' date='Apr 2 2011, 01:32 PM']I actually particularly like acoustic/URB solos in a jazz setting. It's nice to hear a solo from something that isn't harsh like a trumpet, sax or organ. If the accompanying musicians manage to keep the groove going, it can be very satisfying.[/quote]

I think that is an important point. There are a lot of times when during the bass solo the only thing happening is very light hi hat playing. I personally like it when the rest of the band comp behind the solo.Bring the volume down a little if it's an upright solo,but keep the intensity and swing. I find I can solo better that way as I can play off the other instruments,rather than being left to my own devices.

[endorka]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1185794' date='Apr 2 2011, 01:47 PM']I think that is an important point. There are a lot of times when during the bass solo the only thing happening is very light hi hat playing. I personally like it when the rest of the band comp behind the solo.Bring the volume down a little if it's an upright solo,but keep the intensity and swing. I find I can solo better that way as I can play off the other instruments,rather than being left to my own devices.[/quote]

My experience is completely the opposite. Unless they are going to provide a perceptive and skilled accompaniment, I'd rather they just stayed out the way. Particularly the hi-hat.

My preference is for soloing over ballads, I find it is the arena in which I can make the double bass "speak" most, and where its low register and volume are the least detrimental.

Jennifer

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Rich' post='1185343' date='Apr 1 2011, 10:09 PM']Bass solos in jazz... why?

Why not? [/quote]

Precisely. Surely there are no rights and wrongs in music - only stuff you like and stuff you don't like. Simple really.

[BottomE]

[quote name='flyfisher' post='1185843' date='Apr 2 2011, 02:40 PM']Precisely. Surely there are no rights and wrongs in music - only stuff you like and stuff you don't like. Simple really.[/quote]
and i like this a lot. Solo starts around 3:20 but the whole thing is sweet if you like that kind of thing of course

[Wylie]

[quote name='Len_derby' post='1185294' date='Apr 1 2011, 04:34 PM']I can see your point of view here. However, the horribly compressed sound of most CDs doesn't do justice to the live sound of a double bass. If you experience a decent double bass solo live, you'll perhaps see the point. You feel it as well as hear it. So much gets lost with those tacky silver beermats.[/quote]


My thought exactly. Nothing like the sound of a double bass live!

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='endorka' post='1185841' date='Apr 2 2011, 02:38 PM']My experience is completely the opposite. Unless they are going to provide a perceptive and skilled accompaniment, I'd rather they just stayed out the way. Particularly the hi-hat.

My preference is for soloing over ballads, I find it is the arena in which I can make the double bass "speak" most, and where its low register and volume are the least detrimental.

Jennifer[/quote]

I kind of agree with both you and Doddy, even though you disagree! What I mean is, solos in groove/swing-driven songs often totally ruin the mood unless the band keep going - it's not like the rest of the band stops for the blistering trumpet solo, is it?
On the other hand, unaccompanied solos in melody-driven ballads can be beautiful and give the bassist a chance to bridge harmony and melody in interesting ways, often unique in style compared to other instruments. Although, if the accompaniment is good and gives harmonic space, it can make it even better.

[Bilbo]

Any decisions regarding the placing of a solo in a performance need to be made intelligently and musically. Where does it sit in an arrangement and why? Often, in Jazz, decisions about solo space are made because of habit and solos just get passed around without thought or purpose (noone has any reason to solo, they just do). If the decision to solo is made with purpose and the player understands that purpose, then there is every chance that the solo will have some sort of internal integrity. If its just another in a long line of 'habitual' solos, it will probably sound like it.

[Doddy]

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='1186396' date='Apr 3 2011, 01:24 AM']I kind of agree with both you and Doddy, even though you disagree![/quote]

I think that's a cool thing though. Jennifer prefers soloing over ballads and I prefer soloing over mid-up tempo tunes.
It's just a different way of approaching things.

[bassace]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1186599' date='Apr 3 2011, 11:24 AM']I think that's a cool thing though. Jennifer prefers soloing over ballads and I prefer soloing over mid-up tempo tunes.
It's just a different way of approaching things.[/quote]

It also depends very much on the bass player's tecnique. A ballad is a very satisfying thing to solo on, especially if you have a bass with a nice sustain. Mid tempo stuff is also quite do-able, in fact that's often my preference. The problem is with the up-tempo stuff. I find no satisfation in playing or listening to an extension of what you've been playing under the choruses - ie an up-tempo walk. Better to play 'horn phrasing' but you need [i]very[/i] good technique to pull that off.

[Doddy]

[quote name='bassace' post='1186612' date='Apr 3 2011, 11:36 AM']It also depends very much on the bass player's tecnique. A ballad is a very satisfying thing to solo on, especially if you have a bass with a nice sustain. Mid tempo stuff is also quite do-able, in fact that's often my preference. The problem is with the up-tempo stuff. I find no satisfation in playing or listening to an extension of what you've been playing under the choruses - ie an up-tempo walk. Better to play 'horn phrasing' but you need [i]very[/i] good technique to pull that off.[/quote]

Totally agree.
I don't like the up tempo walking solo,good phrasing is so much better.

[AttitudeCastle]

When it comes to bass solos in any genre in any context, you can never win! Like all parts of music its subjective,

If the solo is played high up its too guitar like, or distorted, or on a 5 or 6 string bass, even if it doesn't use the added strings and most 5 strings have an extra low string!

if its played down low its too boring and low,

if it uses runs up and down its to much "maths and not enough music"

(Above example, for a more rock/metal or "True solo" ie no other instruments playing other than drums possibly which is more my background!)

I think its just down to the solo itself within the music not the fact thats a solo, i like some solos dislike others. Its all subjective!

[BottomE]

[quote name='AttitudeCastle' post='1186977' date='Apr 3 2011, 07:10 PM']When it comes to bass solos in any genre in any context, you can never win! Like all parts of music its subjective,

If the solo is played high up its too guitar like, or distorted, or on a 5 or 6 string bass, even if it doesn't use the added strings and most 5 strings have an extra low string!

if its played down low its too boring and low,

if it uses runs up and down its to much "maths and not enough music"

(Above example, for a more rock/metal or "True solo" ie no other instruments playing other than drums possibly which is more my background!)

I think its just down to the solo itself within the music not the fact thats a solo, i like some solos dislike others. Its all subjective![/quote]
+1 that about sums it up

and heres a completely pointless 1:25 seconds of bass solo. Its not Jazz - i don't really know what it is - but there are going to be peeps who think its great and good for them. If we all liked the same things life would be boring

[steve-soar]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='1186505' date='Apr 3 2011, 09:10 AM']Any decisions regarding the placing of a solo in a performance need to be made intelligently and musically. Where does it sit in an arrangement and why? Often, in Jazz, decisions about solo space are made because of habit and solos just get passed around without thought or purpose (noone has any reason to solo, they just do). If the decision to solo is made with purpose and the player understands that purpose, then there is every chance that the solo will have some sort of internal integrity. If its just another in a long line of 'habitual' solos, it will probably sound like it.[/quote]The point of soloing is like sitting around a fire with the members in your village. Up until the solo spot, everyone is jiving and cross talking, then someone gets the calling to tell the others how they think things are, could be, should be and everyone takes notice.

[Bilbo]

[quote name='BottomE' post='1187006' date='Apr 3 2011, 07:43 PM']If we all liked the same things life would be boring[/quote]

Yes, as a final principle, but don't let that mean that any old crap is fine. It is important to have the debate about what things work and what things don't, otherwise there is no motivation to improve.

[BottomE]

Well, i don't know - debate fine but we are talking subjectivity in a lot of cases. Its fine and dandy when something is plainly wrong, out of tune for example - its easy to rationalise this and justify ones critique. But for matters of taste there is always an element of subjectivity. Take the Salinas video - extremely bad taste IMHO but there will be those that think its the mutts ...

[Bilbo]

I think we need to define what the purpose of a solo is. WHen someone like Wooten does one of his mad clinic solos, its not good jazz its great technique presented in a circus act/entertainment fashion. I can't access the Salina video here so can't comment but a lot of fusion solos are not, for my money, jazz solos per se but something more akin to HM stunt guitar

[BottomE]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='1187939' date='Apr 4 2011, 04:27 PM']I think we need to define what the purpose of a solo is.[/quote]
Surely the point of any musical contribution is to enhance the whole? To add something that wasn't in evidence before - mood, dynamic etc be it solo or whatever. Otherwise its just playing for the sake of it.

[Bilbo]

Exactly and I think that is what happens in a lot of fusion type grandstanding (not all of it; some of it is perfectly legit). I find a lot of Jeff Berlin very '1,2,3, GOOOOOOOOOOOO!' whereas, say, a Steve Swallow solo with John Scofield is usually more organic.

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='1187939' date='Apr 4 2011, 04:27 PM']I think we need to define what the purpose of a solo is. WHen someone like Wooten does one of his mad clinic solos, its not good jazz its great technique presented in a circus act/entertainment fashion. I can't access the Salina video here so can't comment but a lot of fusion solos are not, for my money, jazz solos per se but something more akin to HM stunt guitar [/quote]

So what you're saying is, that jazz isn't meant to be very entertaining.

[4000]

[quote name='BottomE' post='1187932' date='Apr 4 2011, 04:21 PM']Well, i don't know - debate fine but we are talking subjectivity in a lot of cases. Its fine and dandy when something is plainly wrong, out of tune for example - its easy to rationalise this and justify ones critique. But for matters of taste there is always an element of subjectivity.[/quote]

+1000.

[Bilbo]

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='1188022' date='Apr 4 2011, 05:44 PM']So what you're saying is, that jazz isn't meant to be very entertaining.[/quote]

Not at all. What I am saying is that 'stunt' bass is not very entertaining.

Its like those video outtake programmes. watching people forget their lines or fall over is amusing a few times but quickly gets boring. Same with the home movie howler programmes: 'oooh, look. He fell over/the kid headbutted him in the nuts/the cat opened the door'! It gets tedious quickly. If a solo has no musical 'point', its acrobatics. And I don't know about you, I don't find acrobats very entertaining

Of course its subjective. But lets not all agree that its all good. Its not. In the grand scheme of jazz, some of it is good, some of it is great and some of it is pony poop.

[Bilbo]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='1188048' date='Apr 4 2011, 06:01 PM'].... some of it is pony poop.[/quote]

Like 'Hey, Victa'