Paultrader Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I've got a playlist on my Ipod of 60s and 70s American music. Bands like The Allman Brothers, Little Feat, The Byrds, Crosby Stills Nash and Young, Steve Miller, Canned Heat etc. I love this stuff - I've always thought that the Yanks make amazing music. The tone of the bass, and the placing of it in the mix, fascinates me. It sounds like pure P Bass sound to me; warm, deep and filling out the lower register - quite indistinct at times. Also, full-on playing. I know that recording techniques were different then, but it feels quite different to the British sound of the time which I always think of as edgy and tight (excepting the Entwhistle roar perhaps). What do you all think - does anyone else share my love of this particular sound? In both my bands, the others are always asking for 'more treble', consequently the Jazz is my first bass for gigging because it has that grunt and edge, but last night I took my 76 P bass to the practice, and the tone filled out the sound as only a P can - magic! Cheers, Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Horse Murphy Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I'm a huge fan too and it certainly has influenced both my playing style and my sound more than British music has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Totally with you mate. The track that defines it for me - and to a certain extent defines my perfect bass tone - is the intro to Simple Man by Lynyrd Skynyrd, such a full and bassy tone, yet sweet and articulate. I'm off to the studio to listen to it now in fact Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paultrader Posted March 31, 2011 Author Share Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) And then there was The Doors... How did Ray Manzarek do that - he must have had two brains! Edited March 31, 2011 by Paultrader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Paultrader' post='1183629' date='Mar 31 2011, 05:50 PM']And then there was The Doors... How did Ray Manzarek do that - he must have had two brains![/quote] He had session bassists, such as: Larry Knechtel, Douglas Lubahn, Harvey Brooks, Ray Neapolitan, and Jerry Scheff. I like a lot of that US stuff too. Edited March 31, 2011 by EssentialTension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 [quote name='EssentialTension' post='1183660' date='Mar 31 2011, 06:19 PM']He had session bassists, such as: Larry Knechtel, Douglas Lubahn, Harvey Brooks, Ray Neapolitan, and Jerry Scheff. I like a lot of that US stuff too.[/quote] Was it Jerry Scheff on the Elvis "The Way It Is" gig? If so, Suspicious Minds, need I say more (OK not quite the genre we're discussing, but it's still American early '70s) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I love the particular sound you're talking about, particularly the likes of Carol Kaye who was just such a great player. The production values of the time as well were really incredible. British bass players have never really done the same thing for me, apart from MacCartney's bass playing, who, together with George Martin, actually put a lot of thought into his bass parts and how he would be received by audiences listening for his bass parts. John Entwhistle had his place, I think he was a great player but really the polar opposite for what I look for when I listen to records, his playing could be way too brash for me. This isn't knocking the guy, it's just the way he liked to play, but it's not my thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 [quote name='Beedster' post='1183668' date='Mar 31 2011, 06:29 PM']Was it Jerry Scheff on the Elvis "The Way It Is" gig? If so, Suspicious Minds, need I say more (OK not quite the genre we're discussing, but it's still American early '70s)[/quote] Yes I think so. And it's Scheff on The Doors [i]LA Woman[/i] album. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I've now stopped trying to emulate the correct sound for the various covers I play and do my own thing with a flat strung P bass The sound described here is where its at, along with the Motown etc. CSN going on right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillbilly deluxe Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Whilst that is definitely my kind of music,i think that you will find that more than one of the bands mentioned used a Jazz bass most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) [s]Leland Sklar.[/s] Bob Glaub. Beautiful tone. And check out his support for the vocals from 4:35 to 4:55 Edited March 31, 2011 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) [quote name='hillbilly deluxe' post='1183686' date='Mar 31 2011, 06:54 PM']Whilst that is definitely my kind of music,i think that you will find that more than one of the bands mentioned used a Jazz bass most of the time.[/quote] Yep, it is so, but strangely though it seems these days, most people with jazz's use them to achieve the brighter side of bass, and those wanting old school seem to do it with Ps Edited March 31, 2011 by lojo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paultrader Posted March 31, 2011 Author Share Posted March 31, 2011 You must be right about the Jazz on these recordings Hillbilly. I always feel that a Jazz demands to be heard, whereas a P is just 'there' in the mix somehow. Presumably it will have as much to do with the sound engineer and production values, which really seem to give that particular music a distinctive imprint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 [quote name='skankdelvar' post='1183694' date='Mar 31 2011, 06:59 PM']Leland Sklar. Beautiful tone. And check out his support for the vocals from 4:35 to 4:55 [/quote] Wouldn't that be Bob Glaub on bass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbayne Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I love the tone that John Mc Vie gets on "Rumours" especially "Go Your Own Way" and "Dreams" I think he used an Alembic around that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 [quote name='Paultrader' post='1183708' date='Mar 31 2011, 07:09 PM']You must be right about the Jazz on these recordings Hillbilly. I always feel that a Jazz demands to be heard, whereas a P is just 'there' in the mix somehow. Presumably it will have as much to do with the sound engineer and production values, which really seem to give that particular music a distinctive imprint.[/quote] I think it does have to do with production values at least as much as with the bass used - although in most cases it is going to be a Fender P or J, the J however will not be soloing the bridge pickup and whichever are likely to have flatwound strings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 [quote name='Hobbayne' post='1183740' date='Mar 31 2011, 07:25 PM']I love the tone that John Mc Vie gets on "Rumours" especially "Go Your Own Way" and "Dreams" I think he used an Alembic around that time.[/quote] McVie always had great tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) [quote name='EssentialTension' post='1183748' date='Mar 31 2011, 07:27 PM']McVie always had great tone.[/quote] I've always loved Sara, (the song, its not a confession) simple lovely line, I might be wrong, but I think Lost in the Supermarket Market has a part that uses a similar line ? Edited March 31, 2011 by lojo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan670844 Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 [quote name='Paultrader' post='1183592' date='Mar 31 2011, 05:25 PM']I've got a playlist on my Ipod of 60s and 70s American music. Bands like The Allman Brothers, Little Feat, The Byrds, Crosby Stills Nash and Young, Steve Miller, Canned Heat etc. I love this stuff - I've always thought that the Yanks make amazing music. The tone of the bass, and the placing of it in the mix, fascinates me. It sounds like pure P Bass sound to me; warm, deep and filling out the lower register - quite indistinct at times. Also, full-on playing. I know that recording techniques were different then, but it feels quite different to the British sound of the time which I always think of as edgy and tight (excepting the Entwhistle roar perhaps). What do you all think - does anyone else share my love of this particular sound? In both my bands, the others are always asking for 'more treble', consequently the Jazz is my first bass for gigging because it has that grunt and edge, but last night I took my 76 P bass to the practice, and the tone filled out the sound as only a P can - magic! Cheers, Paul[/quote] Tone of the bass, Maybe it was a bit to do with the amps...... just a theory, Americans used Beam tetrode in bass amps 6550 (Ampeg) 6L6 (Fender) most of the UK amps of the time used EL34's a Pentode. I have always thought the ole E34 was pretty sh*te for bass as it has a saggy bottom, that lacks definition at the lo end and the high end, . Good for guitar though. Probably totally wrong, but I love the sound of old Bassmans and SVT and B15's. Feel free to get the cheese grater out on my theory though!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_B Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 The production of it has alot to do with it too. I'd say you're not hearing the actual sound of the amp and bass. It's gone through a process via the mixing desk before it gets to you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balcro Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 [quote name='dan670844' post='1183785' date='Mar 31 2011, 07:48 PM']Tone of the bass, Maybe it was a bit to do with the amps...... just a theory, Americans used Beam tetrode in bass amps 6550 (Ampeg) 6L6 (Fender) most of the UK amps of the time used EL34's a Pentode. I have always thought the ole E34 was pretty sh*te for bass as it has a saggy bottom, that lacks definition at the lo end and the high end, . Good for guitar though. Probably totally wrong, but I love the sound of old Bassmans and SVT and B15's. Feel free to get the cheese grater out on my theory though!!!![/quote] Ah! so that explains it. The English soft bass and the drier faster attack with stronger fundamental of the American gear. I can remember back to about '67 & on to 74 and wondered why it sounded different. Marshall ruled the roost back then but if you couldn't afford Marshall then it was Sound City. If you had some cash to spare you used Orange or Hi-Watt. Balcro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan670844 Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 [quote name='Jerry_B' post='1183845' date='Mar 31 2011, 08:28 PM']The production of it has alot to do with it too. I'd say you're not hearing the actual sound of the amp and bass. It's gone through a process via the mixing desk before it gets to you [/quote] True but most instruments were recorded live in those days using microphones and the effects available on the desk aside from a bit of valve compression were fairly limited, but you are right they used a lot of valve powered mixers, I guess they coloured the sound a lot with valvey goodness Telefunken 7025 need I say more!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillbilly deluxe Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telebass Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 [quote name='Beedster' post='1183603' date='Mar 31 2011, 05:33 PM']Totally with you mate. The track that defines it for me - and to a certain extent defines my perfect bass tone - is the intro to Simple Man by Lynyrd Skynyrd, such a full and bassy tone, yet sweet and articulate. I'm off to the studio to listen to it now in fact [/quote] +1! [quote name='Hobbayne' post='1183740' date='Mar 31 2011, 07:25 PM']I love the tone that John Mc Vie gets on "Rumours" especially "Go Your Own Way" and "Dreams" I think he used an Alembic around that time.[/quote] Yes, he did. However, I'm doing it all with flats on a Precision, and it's close. I've no idea what strings he used. More research needed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 [quote name='EssentialTension' post='1183728' date='Mar 31 2011, 07:18 PM']Wouldn't that be Bob Glaub on bass?[/quote] Whoops! It is indeed Mr Glaub. Ta for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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