norvegicusbass Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 I hear often on here and other forums about the usefulness of practicing scales and was wondering why are they so important? I can see how the continuous playing of scales could give someone dexterity but I also suspect there is something deeper about them, that they underpin musical structure. I know very little about musical theory ( er make that nothing at all ) and for that reason I struggle to come up with good bass lines, will scales help? Is it just a simple matter of selecting a note from a scale of the corresponding chord and it will "fit"? Are there any good links/books about which scales are the best to get in your fingers and how they can be translated into good bass lines? Also what scales impact on different types of music? Are some scales favoured in certain genres? Did James Jamerson for instance use scales when constructing bass lines? Or JJ Burnel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Calling Doddy ......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 All sounds very fishy to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1173731' date='Mar 23 2011, 07:43 PM']Calling Doddy .........[/quote] and Bilbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 You have to weigh up the pros and cons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 I'd say this fits firmly into the "Dilbo" category i.e. something that Doddy and Bilbo will be likely to jump straight onto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 You know the song 'Peaches'? That's a minor pentatonic scale. The guitar riff from 'My Girl'? Major Pentatonic scale. Scales aren't dexterity exercises-they are an essential part of learning music. Chords are derived from the relationship of notes within scales. The notes and harmony of different keys can be understood via scales. Diatonic harmony is all about the relationship of notes within scales. There is an awful lot of knowledge contained in scales,and even a basic understanding will make a huge difference. Weighing up the pros and cons? I don't think there is anything to weigh up. There are no cons in learning about how scales work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='1173763' date='Mar 23 2011, 07:59 PM']You have to weigh up the pros and cons.[/quote] I was wondering who was going to weigh in with the first such pun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 [quote name='Doddy' post='1173777' date='Mar 23 2011, 08:06 PM']Weighing up the pros and cons? I don't think there is anything to weigh up. There are no cons in learning about how scales work.[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='1173785' date='Mar 23 2011, 08:11 PM'][/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='1173785' date='Mar 23 2011, 08:11 PM'][/quote] I got it....... I was just making a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 [quote name='Doddy' post='1173788' date='Mar 23 2011, 08:12 PM']I got it....... I was just making a point.[/quote] I believe you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='1173792' date='Mar 23 2011, 08:14 PM']I believe you. [/quote] Seriously....It would be easy for someone to read that and actually try to see the benefits in not learning them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urb Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Let me rephrase the OP: do I need to learn how to put words in the right order to help other people clearly understand what I'm saying? Yes, obviously. Music is no different, it's a language, a framework that needs to be connected in certain ways to 'work' - how you say what you want is up to you - but without having the very words to do that you'll be left mumbling to yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Another consideration is whether to learn metric or imperial scales. This has caused me great confusion when I get them mixed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbayne Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Rattus Norvegicus (what I believe is your username) is full of minor scales and pentatonics Sometimes - A minor Princess Of The Streets - G minor DIT Sewer - D minor Old JJ used to be a classical guitar virtuoso,and you can hear it in his basslines on this album Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Lost me but scales make life a lot easier, Monday nights practice all originals stuff my mate says what do you think of this? Starts playing, I ask what key, "A minor", And we are away. As long as you get the feel of the song and the stops in the right places who will know if your making it up as you go along? After a few minutes I whittle it down to just the notes that work best with the guitar part and create a bass line from those notes, I should of started learning all this sooner! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 [quote name='Marvin' post='1173800' date='Mar 23 2011, 08:17 PM']Another consideration is whether to learn metric or imperial scales. This has caused me great confusion when I get them mixed up.[/quote] Careful.. someone might take you seriously. Wait.. you are serious, aren't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Ask any student of mine and they'll tell you that I am often heard to say, "there is no substitute for just doing it" scales are a great way to give your muscle memory processes access to areas that simply learning riffs by rote leaves to chance. Why leave something to chance when there are established ways of ensuring that in any given musical situation you are equipped with the tools to play something appropriate. More to the point, when I teach scales, alongside them, I show the student how they can be used to understand what it is you are playing... this without fail opens up possibilities as having an understanding leads to relating to different keys, chords and other scales. Further, a body of knowledge is easily built upon so stretching yourself a bit is quite easy,whereas trying to busk your way through things that are beyond your current understanding is painful for both you and your colleagues. Therefore there is no excuse for not being fully equipped for the job in hand, which in my book does include simply knowing what you have to play for a gig, it's just that the wider your knowledge the wider the brief you will be able to cover. Given how much competition there is in the business you'd be mad to sit on laurels of being able to busk a load of tunes you know and sod the rest... this analysis assumes you are trying to [b]work[/b] as a bass player, if not just have fun doing what you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 I dont think you need to be working Jake, If you just want to dep or jam along in theory (excuse the pun) if they give you a set list with the keys on and you know the songs (pop/rock songs etc) you could pretty much bang them out if you have your scales down. I agree with the have fun bit though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1173825' date='Mar 23 2011, 08:27 PM']I dont think you need to be working Jake, If you just want to dep or jam along in theory (excuse the pun) if they give you a set list with the keys on and you know the songs (pop/rock songs etc) you could pretty much bang them out if you have your scales down. I agree with the have fun bit though [/quote] You're quite right, you can have a great knowledge base for fun too, I just think that to be a serious player there are circumstances under which the imperative to be knowledgeable is increased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 [quote name='norvegicusbass' post='1173715' date='Mar 23 2011, 07:28 PM']I know very little about musical theory ( er make that nothing at all ) and for that reason I struggle to come up with good bass lines, will scales help?[/quote] I am no expert either but my horizons have widened immensely since taking on learning music and in a relatively short space of time. Instead of sitting down and trying to busk through a song to get a bass line you will have a whole bunch of notes and chords to experiment with. This can be applied all over the bass and on other instruments! More possible bass lines will become available from the same chord structure. Do it - you won't regret it. Try the Majors Boot Camp on here. [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=74284"]Majors Boot Camp[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 [quote name='BottomE' post='1173831' date='Mar 23 2011, 08:35 PM']I am no expert either but my horizons have widened immensely since taking on learning music and in a relatively short space of time. Instead of sitting down and trying to busk through a song to get a bass line you will have a whole bunch of notes and chords to experiment with. This can be applied all over the bass and on other instruments! More possible bass lines will become available from the same chord structure. Do it - you won't regret it. Try the Majors Boot Camp on here. [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=74284"]Majors Boot Camp[/url][/quote] Great post, +1 We dont need to do the scales and theory are instrument transferable where as tab (excuse the swearing!) is not already do we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Scales, for a musician, are the basis of pretty much all music (the exceptions are not relevant here). Without them, you will always be a lightweight. Every chord is named for its relationship to a major scale. Every melody you will every hear is based on a scale or series of scales. Every solo you ever hear is based on scales. Every harmony you hear is based on the relationships between the notes of a scale or series of scales. Scales are the guts of this stuff we call music. No idiom or genre is free from scales (although some use more than others) and scales cross the divides between genres completely and without changing their relationships to the music in any way. A major scale in Metal is the same as a major scale in Indie, Funk, Jazz, Pop, Folk, R+B, Drum and Bass, Polkas, Classical, Fusion...... All modes are scales starting from different points but they won't make any sense at all until you learn the basics. Without the knowledge of which we speak, you will remain locked into a very small world of pretence and superficiality. Start learning them today. And, whilst you are doing so, learn to read music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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