Ou7shined Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 [quote name='Clarky' post='1137699' date='Feb 22 2011, 08:47 PM']At the risk of turning this into some pseud-y argument over what is art, surely a good musician is someone who creates music that has the power to move you or stir some form of emotion. Joy Division did that (and still do) and Hooky was instrumental in that sound and the emotions they conveyed. Even the naysayers would (in many cases at least) have to agree that Hooky created some memorable bass lines - just listen to the clip of 24 hours I posted and tell me that is not a wonderful and original bass line that is central to a deeply moving song.[/quote] I wouldn't say he was a good musician... but what he has done in the past sometimes turned out ok despite it. If it wasn't for Ian Curtis would we even be having this conversation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 [quote name='Ou7shined' post='1137716' date='Feb 22 2011, 08:58 PM']If it wasn't for Ian Curtis would we even be having this conversation?[/quote] Think we probably would. New Order acheived most of their commercial success off their own backs, regardless of Curtis' suicide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 [quote name='Ou7shined' post='1137710' date='Feb 22 2011, 08:55 PM']Certainly more than I realise. [/quote] I wouldn't want to insult your intelligence but it would be worth having a look at just how many bands and producers hold up Joy Division's sound as a big influence. Also, where was it proved that Hook didn't have a hand in the Moog part in Blue Monday? As far as I was aware it was Sumner and Hook's part. Not heard Peter Hook's solo stuff. If it's anything like Adam Clayton's solo album though then I'm surely in for a treat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witterth Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 [quote name='crez5150' post='1136488' date='Feb 21 2011, 10:58 PM']I wonder what David Cameron thinks about Peter Hook [/quote] Bit of a "Theme" for you recenty eh? Crez? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh2 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 God... there's a lot of BS around here and no mistake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 [quote name='witterth' post='1137728' date='Feb 22 2011, 09:05 PM']Bit of a "Theme" for you recenty eh? Crez?[/quote] did you see what I did there..... eh... eh.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-soar Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 [quote name='Clarky' post='1137699' date='Feb 22 2011, 08:47 PM']At the risk of turning this into some pseud-y argument over what is art, surely a good musician is someone who creates music that has the power to move you or stir some form of emotion. Joy Division did that (and still do) and Hooky was instrumental in that sound and the emotions they conveyed. Even the naysayers would (in many cases at least) have to agree that Hooky created some memorable bass lines - just listen to the clip of 24 hours I posted and tell me that is not a wonderful and original bass line that is central to a deeply moving song.[/quote] Clarky, you speak the truth. Joy Division and New Order are totally unique. They have a style and sense of purpose that is roots based, chaotic, blase, industrial, post modern, arty, hedonistic... but it reflects the common man, non elitist. They were post punk, were anything was possible. Hooky is a hero of the bass and has launched 1000's of imitators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 [quote name='Ou7shined' post='1137716' date='Feb 22 2011, 08:58 PM']If it wasn't for Ian Curtis would we even be having this conversation?[/quote] THAT'S a fair point. He was really the life and soul of what Joy Division was all about, but then New Order happened, so maybe it's fair to say that New Order might not have happened if it wasn't for Ian Curtis, but then maybe it's not. Frankly I'm not too sure I care now after talking about it for so bloody long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-soar Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 [quote name='risingson' post='1137732' date='Feb 22 2011, 09:06 PM']THAT'S a fair point. He was really the life and soul of what Joy Division was all about, but then New Order happened, so maybe it's fair to say that New Order might not have happened if it wasn't for Ian Curtis, but then maybe it's not. Frankly I'm not too sure I care now after talking about it for so bloody long [/quote]Hands up, who's stayed the night in the room where Ian Curtis hanged himself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 MB1. "NOTHING EVER SELLS ON HERE ANYWAY!" TIM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 [quote name='steve-soar' post='1137739' date='Feb 22 2011, 09:15 PM']Hands up, who's stayed the night in the room where Ian Curtis hanged himself?[/quote] Can't lay claim to that unknown pleasure, but I did at one point, live a few doors down from the house on Barton Street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 [quote name='nick' post='1137722' date='Feb 22 2011, 09:02 PM']Think we probably would. New Order acheived most of their commercial success off their own backs, regardless of Curtis' suicide.[/quote] Yeah and Kelly Osbourne achieved most of her commercial success off her own back too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) [quote name='risingson' post='1137724' date='Feb 22 2011, 09:03 PM']....Not heard Peter Hook's solo stuff. If it's anything like Adam Clayton's solo album though then I'm surely in for a treat![/quote] I'm glad you got that. Edited February 22, 2011 by Ou7shined Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 [quote name='Ou7shined' post='1137747' date='Feb 22 2011, 09:19 PM']Yeah and Kelly Osbourne achieved most of her commercial success off her own back too.[/quote] I didn't know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_B Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Hmm - does this mean it's now fair game to have threads where people deride bass players they don't like? I mean, for example, what if someone was to wander into the forum , post a link to a YouTube Jaco clip and ask 'Huh? Is this supposed to be a good? His tone sounds like a duck trying to fart it's way to freedom from a plastic bucket' etc etc. Would that thread get binned...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Jerry_B' post='1137803' date='Feb 22 2011, 09:53 PM']Hmm - does this mean it's now fair game to have threads where people deride bass players they don't like? I mean, for example, what if someone was to wander into the forum , post a link to a YouTube Jaco clip and ask 'Huh? Is this supposed to be a good? His tone sounds like a duck trying to fart it's way to freedom from a plastic bucket' etc etc. Would that thread get binned...? [/quote] We've done that thread several times. It usually comes just before the Macca thread and after the Mark Fleaking Slapper thread. It's probably due any time next month. BTW, I agree about the duck. Edited February 22, 2011 by EssentialTension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 [quote name='EssentialTension' post='1137871' date='Feb 22 2011, 10:45 PM']We've done that thread several times. It usually comes just before the Macca thread and after the Mark Fleaking Slapper thread. It's probably due any time next month. BTW, I agree about the duck.[/quote] I guess now isn't the time to start drawing up parallels between Macca and Peter Hook's bass playing then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Has anyone read the interview with Hook in the book 'In Cold Sweat'? He doesn't come over particularly well in it,I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buff Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Not many bass player's have they're own sound and have influenced so many in the post punk year's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 [quote name='risingson' post='1137882' date='Feb 22 2011, 10:56 PM']I guess now isn't the time to start drawing up parallels between Macca and Peter Hook's bass playing then? [/quote] One of them is left-handed but I'm not going to say which in case it starts an argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 And I never knew Kelly Osbourne was a bass player. You learn something new every day. Bet she plays one of those pink Daisy Rock basses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_B Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 [quote name='Doddy' post='1137889' date='Feb 22 2011, 11:00 PM']Has anyone read the interview with Hook in the book 'In Cold Sweat'? He doesn't come over particularly well in it,I think.[/quote] I think it's pretty well established that he can be a bit of a git (I got that impression when I saw New Order play in the late '80s). That doesn't make him unique in the music world. Whether that has any bearing on his playing, etc - well, I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 [quote name='Jerry_B' post='1137944' date='Feb 22 2011, 11:44 PM']I think it's pretty well established that he can be a bit of a git (I got that impression when I saw New Order play in the late '80s). That doesn't make him unique in the music world. Whether that has any bearing on his playing, etc - well, I doubt it.[/quote] I doesn't have any bearing on his playing,but sometimes a player that you don't particularly like comes over well,and you get more respect for them (as a person,not as a player)than you had previously,and sometimes vice versa. Unfortunately,after listening to his playing and reading that particular interview,I don't find any redeeming qualities. I'm not denying that people might like his playing (mainly because they like the band) but to me,he is pretty inconsequential as a bass player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_B Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 [quote name='Doddy' post='1137955' date='Feb 22 2011, 11:56 PM']I'm not denying that people might like his playing (mainly because they like the band) but to me,he is pretty inconsequential as a bass player.[/quote] Well, one man's poison is another man's meat - personally I don't see the fascination with Jaco's or Geedy's playing, but at the end of the day what you decide is valid is whatever is an influence. Like it or not, Hooky has inspired alot of people to take up the bass and get into it as an instrument, which is no bad thing at the end of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 [quote name='Jerry_B' post='1137994' date='Feb 23 2011, 12:48 AM']Well, one man's poison is another man's meat - personally I don't see the fascination with Jaco's or Geedy's playing, but at the end of the day what you decide is valid is whatever is an influence. Like it or not, Hooky has inspired alot of people to take up the bass and get into it as an instrument, which is no bad thing at the end of the day.[/quote] ^ Spot on. I mean, if you're a lover of jazz or soft rock, then Peter Hook probably won't mean much to you. If, like me, you were weaned on acid house and the early 'Manchester Sound' then the likes of Hooky and Joy Division / New Order will be up there in your own personal Hall of Fame. I'm just wondering whether those of us who are questioning Joy Division's influence really know much about the band or the genres of music they clearly DID influence? No disrespect meant by that... I, for example, don't know the first thing about jazz so I wouldn't feel comfortable waxing lyrical about whether a particular jazz bassist was influential or not. If you can't hum the bassline to Blue Monday off the top of your head, for instance, then I'd argue you're probably not qualified to comment on the influence of New Order/JD! Again, no offence intended ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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