derrenleepoole Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1220835' date='May 5 2011, 11:39 AM']I am advocating for Jazz as an art form.[/quote] Can't say fairer than that Bilbo. And I agree that jazz, when played at it's absolute best is truly something magical to behold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 Recent additions to my ipod include two by Puerto Rican alto saxophonist Miguel Zenon, who I mentioned a couple of months ago. One album is called Jitaro and is a really strong Latin inluenced set (I think it is on Spotify), whilst the other is called 'Forward Motion'. Not as strong but still nice to listen to. I also got hold of the famous Max Roach/Abbey Lincoln recording - 'We Insist!! Freedon Now Suite., a cd I had wanted to hear for years. Its is an important recording that was made at the time of the US civil rights movement. Definately worth looking out for (as are most of the classic albums that are talked about in similarly reverential terms) and highly indicative of the tenor of those times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMech Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) I love jazz. Was at my mates recently with a dozen other friends, and the dubstep he was playing was doing my head in. Despite that neither him or anyone else in the room usually listen to jazz, at my request he put on the track below, and it instantly silenced the room for the duration. inaccessible? don't be silly. Edit: Any recommendations for stuff of a similar theme to avishai cohen would be appreciated Edited May 5, 2011 by ZMech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 What's the track, Zmech (can't play stuff here)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMech Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Nu Nu, the first track from continuo. I prefer the live version, somewhat more epic than the studio version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrenleepoole Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 [quote name='ZMech' post='1221171' date='May 5 2011, 03:29 PM']Edit: Any recommendations for stuff of a similar theme to avishai cohen would be appreciated[/quote] The mighty Phronesis with Jasper Høiby on bass! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 Don't know that one but I have several Cohen cds. It is interesting to see the immediacy of this 'inaccessible' stuff when people are exposed to it. If you like Avishai Cohen, try Scott Colley, Dave Holland, Marc Johnson, Chris Potter, Chris Cheek, Claudia Acuna, Jason Linder... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 [quote name='bassace' post='1220197' date='May 4 2011, 07:52 PM']I like a lot of music, including jazz but also classical music to art; we all know what we like and there is a cut off point where we cease to comprehend. In my case it's probably the Impressionists. Dali, Picasso and others[b] I enjoy but can't really claim to understand[/b]. Like all art forms others will have their [b]'limit of understanding/appreciation'[/b]. And so it is with music. All sorts of people understand/appreciate (and the lucky ones get to play) all sorts of music. And there we should leave it perhaps, but I know it won't stay there.[/quote] The ability to like and appreciate any art form is not based on any technical prowess, education or insider know how, it's whether you like it and therefore appreciate it for what it is from your own perspective. The elitist view point of "you don't like it because you don't understand it" is prevalent in all forms of art: Sculpture, Painting, Classical music, Rap (oh yes there is a hierachy there, for want of a better word), Rock (a lot of proggers are very holier than thou [I love prog BTW]), all artistic forms which includes Jazz too. There are some people who just like to diss other people's tastes because it makes them feel superior and these people are best ignored and left alone to contemplate their own navels. Me I like all forms of art, but there are some artists who I just don't like. This doesn't make me uneducated in that form, it's just My Opinion to which I and everyone else is entitled, providing I don't say "so and so is crap" just because I don't like it is all fine. Folks should by all means introduce others to the art forms they find pleasing, but if the subject then doesn't like it (see also 'doesn't get it') then their preferences should not be dissed and vice versa. I'm not picking on you BTW Bassace it's just you raised the comprehension issue and I needed an example which you kindly provided. Oh yeah FWIW I do love me some jazz, but some of it leaves me cold, that doesn't make me a bad/uneducated/talentless person, it's just different strokes for different folks. That is all (at last I hear you cry ) Ezbass out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMech Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1221240' date='May 5 2011, 04:38 PM']Don't know that one but I have several Cohen cds. It is interesting to see the immediacy of this 'inaccessible' stuff when people are exposed to it. If you like Avishai Cohen, try Scott Colley, Dave Holland, Marc Johnson, Chris Potter, Chris Cheek, Claudia Acuna, Jason Linder...[/quote] Cheers Bilbo, some good stuff there, am enjoying some Dave Holland atm. For a second I thought you'd only listed bassists. [quote name='ezbass' post='1221282' date='May 5 2011, 05:06 PM']Oh yeah FWIW I do love me some jazz, but some of it leaves me cold.[/quote] Isn't that the same with any art form? it's inevitable that you're only going to like some of it, even within a certain style/genre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 [quote name='ZMech' post='1221302' date='May 5 2011, 05:26 PM']Isn't that the same with any art form? it's inevitable that you're only going to like some of it, even within a certain style/genre.[/quote] Absolutely, my point exactly. But that doesn't give the right to those who do like it to belittle my opinion or tastes, unfortunately there are some who will. Back on the topic of liking jazz I'm just listening to Avishai Cohen's Chutzpan, nice (and not in a micky taking Fast Show way). There's an extensive interview with him in this month's Bass Guitar Magazine BTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) In light of some of the recent comments in this thread, I'd like to say my bit and then get back to enjoying sweet tunes. I think it's painfully indicative of a modern quick fix, impatient culture that many people are unwilling to accept that there simply are some things you have to understand at least a little bit to enjoy. It's not elitist to say that you have to bother to put things in a context and understand them a little better to enjoy them. It's just a fact of life. It's not fair to insult people who make an effort to be an active participant in their listening process by calling them elitist. With many art forms, or with learning a language, or with studying literature, or with countless other things you tend to get out what you put in. Yeah, it takes some effort but it always pays off. I don't really get a lot of the theory behind art, and so can't appreciate Hockney on, say, an academic level. I might think his work pleases me in some way I can't quite put my finger on though, but I won't get everything it has to give without being active about it. There are a large number of jazz albums that I thought were total w@nkmess when I first heard them, but love now. People's tastes aren't that static, and I found that having studied jazz and understood some more of what's going on behind the notes I started to enjoy the music more than almost anything else I listened to. Often the things that aren't instantly accessible are those that I end up enjoying the most. This enjoyment has branched out into other music, since I don't see music as appropriate for being divided into arbitrary genres. Additionally, you can enjoy things on different levels, simultaneously, and enjoyment on one level. A lot of rock music and pop music is designed to be instantly accessible, and not take much effort to get into. This is a simple fact. It's not elitist to say that Jazz might take more effort to get into, and it's often (admittedly not always) not motivated by snobbery of any sort. Quite often the formal study of music enhances the listening experience. This isn't specific to genres at all, just it seems that jazz musicians are more often better trained than a lot of pub rockers, simply because it is an objective fact that the majority of jazz requires a higher level of musical awareness to be able to listen to and play. The more you know about formal music theory, the greater the extent you can appreciate music -any music. A good analogy is watching a kid's TV show when you're an adult. You tend to spot all these subtle and sophisticated things that are present on an adult level, but your children might enjoy the same program for a totally different reason. Or if you didn't play cricket, you might not appreciate a fine display of batting tactically over a long innings. The musical world is your oyster, but it's not served a la carte, you're gonna have to sautee it yourself. (Tongue in cheek culinary references, I don't know the first thing about cooking) Edited May 5, 2011 by Hector Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Some stuff I've been digging lately.... The new Kyle Eastwood album 'Songs from the Chateau', Gerald Veasley 'Live at the Jazz Base', Brian Bromberg 'Choices',Arturo Sandoval 'Flight to Freedom' and some older Yellowjackets stuff. I'm also really liking Jacob Fred Jazz Odyssey,especially the album 'The Sameness of Difference'. Their album 'Winterwood' is available as a free download on their website if anyone is interested. I'm liking the Birdland Big Band DVD alot as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I had 'A Love Supreme' on in the lounge today, and Mrs_5 came in and said "it's too busy". She like Coldplay... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foal30 Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 [quote name='PeteinKent' post='1220519' date='May 5 2011, 01:50 PM']Of course it's the 'none of us' phrase that really gives it all away here. You are not one of our fraternity so therefore how do you have the temerity to criticise us? Plus its the very fact that I have no chip on my shoulder about any form of music that is the hub of my posts. Each to their own, plus support every musician /band as long as they play with sincerity and passion and are not being dismissive about what they are playing or their audience. And as for 'avoiding jazz like the plague'..this is simply untrue. Even now when I encounter any form of jazz music I listen with with expectation and hope but often the experience is degraded by the attitude of the musicians and audience if and when I inform them conversationally that I am a pop/rock musician. There is some jazz music I absolutely love as there is country/punk/reggae/world music I love. But only jazz makes this difficult...you are either in or you are out. To reiterate the opening line from my original post...'I have nothing against jazz per se'. I just find the attitude of the jazz fraternity often very abrasive if not downright unpleasant. Is there really any jazz musician on here who wants to claim that jazz is 'inclusive' ?[/quote] hi Peter OK I live in Aotearoa/New Zealand so obviously my experience may be considerably different but yes some of the 'best' musicians I play with are going to identify themselves as Jazzers and that listening/learning/studying /focusing on Jazz specifically has been so important for them i do some study too and it has been a positive experience. It is 'harder' to play Jazz well than Blues/Funk/Rock which stylistically are more my go. This don't mean they are worse , just I use a different brain space or vibe to play a funk thing to a jazz gig. it might be horses for courses I think once I learned a bit I might also have got over myself and having pre-conceived ideas about players identified with certain genres. Maybe I was insecure or defensive about my own musical short-comings and looked for excuses. I certainly hope 'player attitudes' do not distract you from learning/appreciating/contributing to Jazz Music. Clearly I wish i was more serious about good study and listening habits in my younger days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 (edited) [quote name='paul_5' post='1221632' date='May 5 2011, 09:46 PM']I had 'A Love Supreme' on in the lounge today, and Mrs_5 came in and said "it's too busy". She like Coldplay...[/quote] Must...avoid...commenting...on.....obvious...double....entendres...... Edited May 6, 2011 by ezbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted May 6, 2011 Author Share Posted May 6, 2011 [quote name='paul_5' post='1221632' date='May 5 2011, 09:46 PM']I had 'A Love Supreme' on in the lounge today, and Mrs_5 came in and said "it's too busy". She like Coldplay...[/quote] A marvelous album that grows and grows everytime I listen to it. I have been looking at it a lot lately for one reason and another and, despite having first heard it over 20 years ago (my copy is on CASSETTE!!), I am still finding new perspectives on it. Tell your wife to try again. There is actually a book about it by Ashley Kahn. Well worth a read id you are interested in Coltrane, as is Lewis Porter's Porter's book and Frank Kofsky's 'Black Nationalism & The Revolution In Music' (there is a used copy on here for 42p). While we are at it, try Val Wilmer's 'As Serious As Your Life'. [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Love-Supreme-Creation-Coltranes-Classic/dp/1862076022/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1304669911&sr=1-1"]A Love-Supreme - Kahn[/url] [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/John-Coltrane-Music-Michigan-American/dp/047208643X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1304669980&sr=1-1-spell"]John-Coltrane - Lewis Porter[/url] [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Black-Nationalism-Revolution-Music-Kofsky/dp/0873481291/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1304670096&sr=1-1"]Black-Nationalism - Kofsky[/url] [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/As-Serious-Your-Life-Coltrane/dp/1852427302/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1304670168&sr=1-1"]As Serious As Your Life - Val Wilmer[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endorka Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1220835' date='May 5 2011, 11:39 AM']I have played rock/metal, funk, pop, reggae, shows etc and can do most of it standing on my head (extreme stunt musicians, atheletes and jugglers excepted). I have not played classical as there is no repertoire for electric bass but I have no doubt that some of it is easy and some of it really hard. But, on a balance of competences, in my experience, playing great jazz is a s***load harder to do that playing the other genres I have explored.[/quote] I can appreciate what you are saying to some extent, but whatever the arguments for the quality of musicians at "pub band" level - and I would say this also applies to much Jazz I hear played in pubs / restaurants as well - when you hear people at the top of their game in any genre, they tend to be masters in the way they communicate the music, and I think there is a great leveller here. It takes a great deal of competence and application to become truly great at any genre. For example, I'm listening to Fleetwood Mac's "Rumours" at the moment, and I would argue that Lindsey Buckingham's guitar playing is the work of a master. In all the genres you mention above I can think of musicians that make me shake my head and smile with how good they are. Classical music is an interesting point; from my experience of playing this, I would say that it requires a technical competence at least equivalent to jazz, more so for a bass player. However, once one gets past all the technicalities - and I wish I had - it still all comes down to how well the music is felt and communicated. Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earbrass Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Something a bit different. If you ever get a chance to see these guys live, it's well worth it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRev Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I went to see Get the Blessing at the lovely St. George's in Bristol last night. They did two sets - the first set was an homage to John Coltrane, the second was mostly taken from their soon to be released new album. I was pretty much completely blown away by Clive Deamer's drumming (better known for his day job in Portishead), even Mrs Rev enjoyed herself and she thinks that Micheal Bubble is 'jazzy'... [url="http://www.theblessing.co.uk/#awp::"]Get The Blessing[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 [quote name='ZMech' post='1221171' date='May 5 2011, 03:29 PM']Edit: Any recommendations for stuff of a similar theme to avishai cohen would be appreciated[/quote] Hey man. I'd recommend listening to some Dhafer Youssef: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamd Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 [quote name='TheRev' post='1221963' date='May 6 2011, 09:48 AM']I went to see Get the Blessing at the lovely St. George's in Bristol last night. They did two sets - the first set was an homage to John Coltrane, the second was mostly taken from their soon to be released new album. I was pretty much completely blown away by Clive Deamer's drumming (better known for his day job in Portishead), even Mrs Rev enjoyed herself and she thinks that Micheal Bubble is 'jazzy'... [url="http://www.theblessing.co.uk/#awp::"]Get The Blessing[/url][/quote] Missed out on that one, gutted. Jim Barr a legend. Hey Rev did you lend me your EUB in the Seven Stars one Sunday when my Stagg went kaput? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 [quote name='Hector' post='1222560' date='May 6 2011, 08:31 PM']Hey man. I'd recommend listening to some Dhafer Youssef: [/quote] That sir, is superb. Simply stunning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 [quote name='derrenleepoole' post='1221237' date='May 5 2011, 04:36 PM']The mighty Phronesis with Jasper Høiby on bass! [/quote] ^ Holy **** that blew me away! Truly amazing playing. ...I've just bought Green Delay as an impulse-buy on iTunes thanks to your link. Seems I owe you a debt of gratitude for switching me on to something new; and in monetary terms you owe me roughly 2 1/2 pints of beer ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrenleepoole Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 [quote name='Skol303' post='1222770' date='May 7 2011, 12:08 AM']^ Holy **** that blew me away! Truly amazing playing. ...I've just bought Green Delay as an impulse-buy on iTunes thanks to your link. Seems I owe you a debt of gratitude for switching me on to something new; and in monetary terms you owe me roughly 2 1/2 pints of beer ;-)[/quote] Once you Phronesis, you can never look back All of the albums are very good, but I think Organic Warfare wins it for me. Jasper Høiby appears on the new Ivo Neame album too if you're interested. Also check out Trio ELF and the album 746... totally sick drum and bass inspired jazz that completely works and a killer upright player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-soar Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 [quote name='derrenleepoole' post='1221237' date='May 5 2011, 04:36 PM']The mighty Phronesis with Jasper Høiby on bass! [/quote]On a tiny little screen, on my small laptop, through its rubbish speakers, you have given me joy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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