EBS_freak

Quite happy to disagree. All good man!

This is pretty true. I think the more serious bands are slowly making the turn - but ultimately - the less you are relying on backline and letting the PA do the lifting, the better your band is going to sound. I know lots of people will argue otherwise - but you aren't playing Wembley. There's lots of other factors I know... shared ownership/sole ownership of PA, moving it, playing with other bands.... But ultimately, let bleed into mics, the cleaner your signal (hell, moving to a decent modelling setup with decent monitoring is probably the best move you can make right now (for getting a consistent tone at any volume).

For confirmation for anybody reading with interest - the TWS is analogue - so negligable latency as no A/D and D/A conversion. What you have got however, is a compounder - so depending upon how good the compander is, you'll notice a change in the bottom end and top end response. (That's where digital wins - no compander... however, at the cost of latency - don't get nothing for free in this game!)

What you describe in 3 I think is down to saturation. SS amps can do that, although people tend to stray away from the idea of adding inaudible distortion - or lots of additional harmonic content which valves do out the box (it's always why they are described as sounding fatter or more authoritative - they aren't really, it's the additional harmonic content in the distortion that makes you thk that). Sag and valve compression is what is really the key difference. IMHO opinion of course.

And even if they have decent FoH, the monitors are still usually garbage.

I don't think so. If there is a common component, it's a fair statement - would the statement of true power output actually make it sound or perform any different? For the B2B element, ICEPower won't care - as long as they are still shifting units.

Reidmar - king of the dwarfs. they had their name nailed before all this trend started. (Just nobody clocked)

It's like all those pedals that illuminate a tube but the audio path doesn't actually pass through it. Quite hilarious - when you find forum posts where people are swapping out the tube and commenting on the subsequent tone changes. I love it.

Ah I did know that actually! I just still refer to it as the B&O module I guess. Oh totally - the small form factor has done wonders for the industry. Any perception in losses is offset against the convenience for sure. I'm also most people would be none the wiser to the sound as I'm convinced most people see with their eyes anyway.

Bingo. It's about hitting those hard transients... and the amp reacting appropriately.

I personally wouldn't want anything that could impact my timing, so would defo push for something like a Line 6 or a Boss WL

In regard to the TC, I suspect it's not the power amp that is the question - more the sum total and that weird compression thing they implemented.

Are you ever going to record with it?

6ms latency.

Re:phaser pedal - I was just going to say, case in point about how people don't understand latency or understand where it comes from. Every component has latency, most of the time it is trace. Yes, there's even latency in analogue radio systems - but the latency is generally measured in nano seconds. So in comparison, an analogue wireless system has an end to end latency of circa 0.1ms. A world apart from digital systems where A/D D/A conversions are in place. (Of course the conversion problem is compounded when it's happening for every unit in the change). Circa <3ms is pretty much the go to figures for digital wireless now... a lot of the higher end system are also including encryption in for good measure! The newest generation Line 6 are now at 1.5ms. Lectrosonics slightly under at 1.4 and I think Shure Axient is still the champ at sub 1ms. You won't notice any issues around there, you are comfortably under the 7ms threshold (or 10ms if you are less perceptive). Start sticking a few tardy digital pedals in your chain and you may start to feel the delay! The G90 is pretty old system now - must be over 10 years old now. I think it remains a staple in the line up as it has a pleasing 1u, full width receiver format. Having said that, I think it is still sub 4ms - which shows how good Line 6 were even back then.

I'm not meaning to be rude - it's just that this is a big bug for me as there's a lot of people buying stuff that they don't understand. Also, with regard to your friend - I didn't mention anything about his ability of a player, whether he's respected or not but 35 years of studio experience brings nothing to the table in this conversation I'm afraid - especially if he doesn't understand the impact of that 12ms latency figure. Latency is a big, often misunderstood detail, surrounding wireless. It can actually influence your playing - and can ultimately mess up your internal metronome. Depending upon the rest of your setup, it can have even wider reaching consequences. Cumulative latency through digital pedals in your chain, digital desks... they all start adding up ms. Given that most players perceive latency at 10ms (and some as low as 5-7ms), you can see why I raise it as a concern. If people continue to buy these products, it'll never drive improvement on these figures. Additionally, it can lead to comments such as, "I've tried digital wireless, its rubbish". What that really translates to, is that they've tried rubbish digital wireless.

One of the biggest problems is that the ICE system is great with programme music that has been through the studio, mixed and mastered - and had all the transients associated with live music taken out. It's why testing a PA with CD isn't really a representative test of how your band is going to sound. Similarly, that 12 inch sub you are potentially eyeing up may bring a lot to the table with CD playback... but goes into fart city when you try and put a live band through it (with no processing on the desk either)

The beginnings of a really crap super hero.

Hearing of a bat, timing of a broken clock.

8ms Latency I'm still out

Nope - but the market is driven a lot around the B&O module. Small, affordable - enables for teeny tiny, lightweight - but oh so powerful heads... and that means that any amp that uses that module, is likely to exhibit similar behaviours. It's just whether you are willing to take that compromise. But the compromises are more about the module choice rather than the technology choice.

Latency: < 12ms I'm out.

Whats your budget?

Most of this comes down to one commonly used, particular model of power amp. Go use some Powersoft amps and then state that class D is lacking.

Oh man. You only have to check out the dire performances on the Facebook group “the circle” to want to slit your wrists. But then what’s worse is when you see the interaction, likes, views they get. Awful video. Awful sound. Awful performances. Seems there is little need to put out anything decent nowadays.