EBS_freak

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1477044582' post='3159414'] Whoah guys, there's more than one way to skin a cat. There isn't a one size fits all solution to a question like this, it's more a question of what you gain and what you lose. I'm as techie as you get but we shouldn't forget the squishy organic bits of a band either, usually the weakest link in getting a good sound. There's no doubt in my mind that you can get a good sound with backline plus vocal PA. It has the big advantage of simplicity, everyone takes responsibility for their own sound. Set bass to match drums, guitar to them and vocals to sit on top. Use the same settings as last time as a starting point and adjust to the room. This works really well if a band have little technical expertise but if you have to turn up for any reason then it will get too loud on stage with multiple problems starting. I've equally no doubt that for the very best sound a fully mixed set up with low sound levels on stage and probably in-ears will be better, and can be adjusted to the smallest pub or a stadium. The trouble is it takes time and a little understanding to set up and you need to invest more in the kit. If you don't have someone with the expertise the opportunities to get the sound wrong are greater too. If you don't have the time, money or expertise to set it all up properly then it isn't a good solution so KISS. For me the biggest issue is the drums. Once you add in 5 or more mics for just the kit you are probably moving to the territory of having someone mixing FOH and then adding in problems of preserving the guitarist precious 'tone'. Add in the problems of on-stage monitoring and you've a level of complexity that can be difficult to cope with. However a backline/vocal PA has problems too. All the backline will be picked up by the vocal mics and muddy the sound, stage sound levels will tend to be too high and poor room acoustics can end up ruining the on stage sound. Low ceilings and bass are my personal bugbear. So personally I've settled on a small backline amp just capable of comfortably sitting in with the drums and with guitarists similarly equipped.That gives us the option of playing with just backline in small venues and provides our personal on stage monitoring and tone shaping options. Mic up the cabs for guitarists, kick mic for the drums and DI for me and we can go properly mixed. So far we haven't needed to mic the drums very often but for that many people I'd expect a PA provided. Even then it's been better when I have a little control over my own stage monitoring even if the audience only hear me through the PA. That doesn't mean I think other people have it wrong, I have heard other bands sounding great with all sorts of set ups. However, going back to Molan's original post, Ampeg 8x10 in a pub with an unmiked kit, really! [/quote] Excellent post! Probably worth stating that using IEMs, or adequate monitoring with small amps is the best way of keeping the band volume under control. Guitarists are always the first to turn up... if you blast their IEMs with their guitar, they will be less likely to turn around and reach for the volume setting... unless it's to turn it down. IEMs are also a good way to tame drummers... its amazing how they tend to lay off smacking seven shades of sh1t out of their kit if the mix in their ears is already pretty loud...

There's a lot of fors/against being said in - [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/293804-gigging-without-a-pa/unread/"]Gigging without a PA[/url]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1477034551' post='3159320'] At most our audience are standing 10-15m away from the band. They hear what we hear. [/quote] There's an echo in here. They don't for the reasons I have explained previously.

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1477003364' post='3159266'] I'm in Dad's camp though. For the size of audience we play to if the 'stage' sound is balanced we know that the audience is hearing a decent sound. [/quote] Thats the point though... depending upon where the audience members are, the sound can change dramatically. When the band is going through the PA, this problem is greatly reduced. Audiences don't tend to stand on stage either - so aren't going to get the stage sound!

That's the badger. So when is the dood self build making an appearance?

There are other options to the RCF - like the Yamaha DXR15 - that will also pack a punch for less money than say the 745s. Still light enough too. Miking up the kit is great, especially with a digital kit because it enables you to add in the all elements that you would hear on a studio mixed kit and instead of a flabby, boxy sounding kit, you can have a real fat kick. The biggest plus for me though, is that I hate hearing bands where the guitarist is taking your face off if you are standing in front of his amp... yet you can't hear it if you stand off axis... or if you happen to be three or four people deep in the audience. If you put everything through the PA, everything can be heard a lot more clearly... and more likely to be a decent mix wherever you are standing in the pub. That can only be a good thing, right?

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1476991415' post='3159109'] The bass cab [i]is [/i]the sub. No need for any more in the venues we normally play. Bigger scenes have the full works, but bars..? No need, for us. [/quote] You don't put your kick drum through the bass cab do you? And if you are running your backline to provide all the bass front of house, it's no wonder we are all going deaf. I just don't see why you wouldn't want to use a single 12, or maybe a 2x12 running at a moderately low volume and buy some decent PA to project it all front of house. But that's just me.

[quote name='mikel' timestamp='1476989213' post='3159088'] What I meant was WE only use the tops for vocals in pubs. Crystal clear cos there are no other frequencies to get in the way. Can work? It works every night for most bands that play pub gigs.Been doing it myself for 25 plus years. Drag the whole PA to a pub? We have much better things to do. [/quote] 25 years? Not up for a change in thinking then, grandad? PA tech has moved on and become a lot more affordable. 2 full range cabs will do the whole band.

[quote name='JoeEvans' timestamp='1476985729' post='3159049'] Does anyone gig with a single one of those 'bass unit and a pole' rigs, like the the Bose L1? They look as though they would work really well for the borderline zone between using a PA and not. [/quote] I think they are only successful for acoustic acts. Great for portability but can't hold a candle to proper boxes.

[quote name='mikel' timestamp='1476980903' post='3159001'] Tops and subs in a pub? Way over the top. [/quote] Why? Subs give the low end frequencies that tops just can't give. There's a difference between fidelity and volume. The latter has to be appropriate for the venue.

[quote name='obbm' timestamp='1476910219' post='3158480'] Dan, i have a Q-MAX cutter for making holes for these Neutrik connectors. if you find a suitable box I'll happily cut the holes for you. [/quote] Just out of interest, whats the maximum width of metal that these cutters can punch through?

^^ WINNER ^^

This is going to look great. Watching with interest.

And of course, pics when done!

OR https://www.studiospares.com/Cables-Leads/Stageboxes/Chassis-Patch-Plate--Wall-Box-4-Way_403040.htm WITH 4x6mm, 1x20mm and 1x15mm (15mm may be difficult to find!) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Blanking-Closed-Rubber-Grommets-6-9-12-16-20-25-32-50mm-1-6mm-Panel-thickness-/262281562555 ALTERNATIVELY, cover the rear holes with something like... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-X-SELF-ADHESIVE-STICK-ON-RUBBER-FEET-20MM-X-3MM-/191815387956

Maybe this should provide some inspiration... http://www.screwfix.com/p/tower-1g-surface-box-with-20mm-knock-out-and-mini-knockout/33241 (you can get metal boxes - but they will have holes in the back...) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-SINGLE-GANG-4-XLR-HOLE-SWITCH-FACE-PLATE-BRUSHED-STAINLESS-/261981217721 http://www.neutrik.com/en/xlr/d-series/nc3md-h http://www.neutrik.com/en/audio/plugs-and-jacks/jacks/combo-a-series/ncj6fa-v-0 http://www.neutrik.com/en/audio/plugs-and-jacks/locking-1/4-chassis-jacks/nj3fp6c http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A4-Marine-Grade-Stainless-Steel-Nyloc-Nylon-Insert-Locking-Nuts-M3-4-5-6-8-10-12-/360650014234 (--> M3) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A2-Stainless-Steel-Button-Head-Screw-Allen-Socket-Bolts-M3-M4-M5-M6-M8-/160792810792 (--> M3) PS always mount all the connectors from the rear! (Looks more pro) Look at the powercons on this (bad) - http://www.lexproducts.com/content/upload_products/129/prmiun-6ca-front-rgb-xl-v1-a__large.jpg Compared to (good) - https://studiospares.s3.amazonaws.com/p/alt/l/538690_1.jpg

[quote name='leroybass' timestamp='1476872605' post='3157909'] you could try using spacers on the e string behind the bridge, so if you put a few washers on the string and then string it through the bridge, you will lengthen the scale of your bass without effecting the tuning, it might help [/quote] Im not sure I follow - the scale length of a bass is the nut to the break point on the saddle (compensated by the string width). What you are suggesting doesn't impact scale in any way?

My apologies - you are right.

WD40 should clean those up nicely... or lighter fluid, or a little big of brasso on a rag. Don't be tempted to use anything like wirewool as you'll never get the metal debris away from the magnets.

[quote name='anzoid' timestamp='1471787740' post='3115839'] Just got hold of a Streamline 5 in satin white. Joyous Plays beautifully and sounds awesome. [/quote] Oh wow, that looks very cool. 80s cool Want.

[quote name='ursus' timestamp='1476867147' post='3157837'] Not EBS hifi clean. I have a Reidmar 750 and a Streamliner 600, both have the treble/bright at 10/12 Khz as the M900 have the treble break at 5Khz. So if you have the typical EBS glitter string sound in mind I have to say...not really. [/quote] Well... that's saved me some money

[quote name='AndrewJordan' timestamp='1476820327' post='3157616'] Hi dood! How would you compare the clarity/ frequency responce between the er15s and the 64 audios? [/quote] Can't really compare as one is earplugs with filters, the other is an in-ear monitor!

[quote name='Delberthot' timestamp='1476823140' post='3157646'] [url="http://s927.photobucket.com/user/Delberthot/media/14089238_186834378388756_330157803568661876_n_zpsouj6rnhg.jpg.html"][/url] [/quote] It's like a beefier PJB Earbox! Cool solution - is there a top hat insert on the bottom of that cab or is there a metal plate that the cab is sitting on?

[quote name='ras52' timestamp='1476865292' post='3157812'] With a link to a transcription in the description - nice! [/quote] Just seen that too... sweet. May have a wee look later.