Phil Starr

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1455745363' post='2982131'] Phil is it the usual 250W into 8 or 500W into 4 with an extension cab? [/quote]If it is the same as the original kickback it is just into the internal speaker. You have to unplug that to go into an external speaker. My guess is that the internal speaker will be 4ohms and that the power will be limited by the current from the power supply. So I'd guess it's 250W into 4ohms but it's just a guess. Hartke just say 500W peak 250W rms.

Well from the manual they are actually 250Wrms, so only a little more powerful than the originals 3dB. There's nothing to indicate how efficient the speakers are so that the sound could be louder or the same. I still use my old one for smaller gigs and it struggles but just about does the job so an extra 3dB would help. Weight is 13kg for the 12" version so lighter than the old ones. Here's the link http://www.samsontech.com/hartke/products/combos/kickback-combos/kickbackkb12/ I'd be interested too if anyone gets round to finding one to try. The Fender Rumble combo is getting lots of love here.

Another for the Zoom B1ON. I don't have any problem with headphone levels with cheap Sennheisers HD201 more expensive HD595's or any of the other half dozen phones I've tried. Basically it's a little louder than the iPod, which doesn't mean it'll work with everything but it's OK with most. One thing you may want to consider is looking for something battery powered, there's enough leads already and it's nice to be able to sit anywhere. I get about 5 days practice out of rechargeables with my B1ON

Hi all. the plan is to have a cutting list and a step by step guide. The bracing will be drawn up later. I switched the design at the last minute. Mainly this was for two reasons; the slot ported cab was difficult to construct without a decent set of clamps and we found a significant resonance in the frequency response in the slot ported cab down to the speaker operating into a square section almost cubical space. In the end the tube ported cab was easier to build and since the whole idea was to make this as simple as possible I decided to go for the tube ported cab. The unbraced panels in the 18mm cab vibrated a whole lot less than the braced panels in the 12mm cab. The bracing adds a layer of complexity and so I'm going for the 18mm cab with some minimal bracing. I haven't braced an 18mm cab so I want to try that before finalising the bracing. Copying the 12mm bracing would add too much to the weight and be over the top for what are inherently fairly rigid panels due to their relatively small size. Basically I didn't give any details of bracing to the guys doing the drawings but they can go in later. I'll put enough into the write up for people to be able to build a slot ported cab or a 12mm cab if they prefer, it just won't be what I'd recommend. In the meantime if you haven't already seen it I suggest you have a look at this thread, where Beer of the Bass has built a very similar cab with the Eminence 12A-2's in it. Well worth a look http://basschat.co.uk/topic/276469-a-pair-of-1x12-cabs/

Any energy used in vibrating the cab itself is wasted energy of course. Since the amount of energy absorbed is frequency dependant the cab vibration will result in changes in the frequency response and a resonating cab is going to have an uneven frequency response. Most speaker designers are going to be designing to get as smooth a response as possible and even if you are going for a tailored response then it is hard to predict what a cab will do to the response so tailoring a cab by making it resonant is pretty nearly impossible. However non-flat cabs and music sometimes work well together. Guitarists go for highly coloured cabs to get their 'sound'. In a sense a lot of 60's and 70's cabs were 'experimenting' with this as they were often put together with very little theoretical knowledge and then just tested by playing through them. Some of those designs still continue and people love their sound, so yes theoretically and in practice there can be benefit in a non-flat, resonant design. Currently the trend in boutique bass cabs is to make them as flat as possible. Personally I think that is the way to go, with cab and amp simulators getting better and cheaper all the time. With a flat cab and some electronics you can have all the sounds from clean to Ampeg with a couple of lightweight cabs. Finally on bracing, There will come a point where bracing makes little difference to what you can actually hear, and all that bracing adds weight. Alex Claber has said here that the main aim of his bracing was rigidity rather than weight reduction which comes as a side benefit. Thick panels on small cabs are inherently rigid and mass is a useful damper of resonances so for a small cab you can have a successful speaker with minimal bracing. It's also critical how you do the bracing, you can simply shift the frequency of panel vibration to higher and more irritating frequencies in the worst cases. I think what BFM has said about a well designed thin walled braced cab being better than a poorly designed thick walled cab is absolutely fair but that adds considerable expense in manufacture. It might be better to spend that money on the drive unit and stick to a simple cab at a particular price point.

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1455281383' post='2977733'] What's wrong with Artexed ceilings I'd like to know! [/quote] Hmm wonder if Stevie would like his cab in white

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1455225513' post='2977323'] Here we go: After a bit of experimentation I found that I much prefer the smoother foam rollers that came with my pound shop paint tray to the honeycomb textured ones which Blue Aran sell with the paint. The cheap foam rollers produce a nice fine texture, while the texture from the Blue Aran rollers reminds me a little too much of Artexed ceilings! [/quote] I agree, I managed to get a linen like effect with the cheap foam rollers. The Blue Aran ones are meant to give you the effect the big boys get by spraying their cabs. It's worth trying longer pile rollers too, the ones designed for emulsion paint, they give you a texture in between the two.

Glad you are feeling more positive. Just want to add my own encouragement to join a band. It doesn't have to be a gigging band, just a bunch of mates (or new friends) who get together to make music. I was lucky in that I was invited to join in with some friends who jammed every Friday after work as a wind down. I'd only been playing 3months and it had taken me that long just to learn to finger pick a steady eight beat, strictly on the root notes. (think With or Without You all on the E string). I've never felt so nervous in my life, I nearly fled) 3 hours later my life had changed, we'd made music! I'm still not great, well not very good at all after 7 years playing, but I gig most weekends now I've played in several bands and still can't believe my luck. Just making music in private with a couple of other people is a joy in itself. If you want an easy first step then go along to an open mic or two. You don't have to take your bass just listen, you'll hear some rubbish and some things that are pretty good. When you are ready see if you can pick just one song and ask if you can join in. Good luck

[quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1455178723' post='2976622'] I used to teach for a living. If you want to PM me I'll be happy to offer a bit of free advice about practice techniques, routines and schedules. No agenda, no pressure, no charge. [/quote] Does that apply to all of us

Well done on this, I'm confident you'll be pleased with the sound. I ended up with a 50Hz tuning too so I think that will be the best decision. Can't wait until you've tried it.

[quote name='The Hat' timestamp='1455042138' post='2975365'] I actually have a small Kustom amp, nothing special but like I say I know feck all about em. I'm intrigued by the B1on, sounds right up my street [/quote] [quote name='The Hat' timestamp='1455046123' post='2975425'] Are these effects boxes simple to use ? I look at some of em and I wouldn't have a clue what buttons to press [/quote] You know the sound of a practice amp then I started with a similar Peavey practice amp, OK for the price and size but as soon as you move on to something with decent speakers and a bit more power you realise what you've been missing. The effects boxes are simple enough to use, I just scrolled through the pre set sounds of my B1ON (ten banks of ten) until I found the sound I wanted. Now for practice it stays on one setting and it's just plug and play. One button turns on the drum machine/metronome and pressing both pedals at once turns the tuner on and off. The rest is fairly intuitive but you can keep it as simple as you like.

Yes, plan the flow of your sets and groups of three of four are about right especially if people are dancing. Most people seem to need a rest after about 10-12 mins so three songs with no gaps will keep them on the floor. Any gap longer than a few seconds gets them looking for their drink or starting up a conversation/checking their phone so gaps are a killer. I like to plan around what I think the audience ought to be doing and how to draw them in.

If you are happy to practice through headphones the B1ON gets another vote, they do everything you could want. For a basic little amp you could do worse than the Hartke Kickbacks, I use a 10 and it has a proper grown up sound which a lot of little practice amps lack. About £100-120 used. Not used the Roland Cube but the Cube guitar amps do the job so I'd expect the cube to be fine too. I wouldn't bother with a really small practice amp though, the sound is really not very satisfying so you end up practicing less which is kind of the point.

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1455016130' post='2974969'] As a newcomer to this thread and with far too little spare time to read 550 posts on what is apparently a one-off design for a small bass speaker cab, can anyone offer a brief digest, ideally less than 3000 words? [/quote]Fair comment, but we've all had fun That's what we're working on now, the hopefully final phase where we actually write up the design as a 'how to' guide with some pics and drawings.

I love Basschat. There are four people freely giving up their time to produce plans and instructions for the build and just making it happen. Is it bass players? Many thanks to Garry, Luke, Marco and Ian.

Go for the B1ON even if you never use the effects it's a battery powered practice machine. Drums, metronome, tuner iPod mixing. I'm off to sit next to Mrs S, whilst she watches 'Call the Midwife' I'll be rocking out silently with the headphones on.

All my personal stuff goes into the bass case, including a folding stand. I run PA for the band. Leads go (all cable tied) into canvas bags, one type per bag. (mains, kettle leads, mic, jack) Seems messy but the soft canvas bags pack into all the odd spaces in the car you can't fit hard cases into and I just gather up the bags so it's a one hand carry. The bags are cheap too http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Ladders+%26+Storage/d110/Tool+Bags/sd3241/Canvas+Tool+Bag/p66762

Quick update (I know, I'm a child with a new toy) I tried out the Tube 500 initially with my J, a Highway One fitted with a J-East Retro, I was frankly underwhelmed. When I switched to my American Deluxe P Bass last night it sounded great, lovely clean sounds, then I switched to my MIJ Thunderbird and that really came alive, much nicer sounds than with my old Hartke more articulation and just more detail. It seems some amps are just a much better match to one bass than another. I started with the Jazz because it is my best sounding bass, well so I thought until I heard the T'bird through the Mark Bass The band are in for a shock next gig. Now I just have three more speaker options to run through.......

I've pm'd Garry and Luke along with a couple of other volunteers. Now to sort out the photo's

Well the big day arrived and I'm now the proud owner of a Little Mark Tube 500. First impressions are that I prefer the sound of my Harke 3500 which it will replace as my gigging amp. Not by much and to be fair it may be more to do with knowing all the tone settings and just a familiar sound but, well the Hartke sounds great even if it is getting a bit cranky (I'm worried about long term reliability which is why i needed a new amp) I won't miss the weight either. The Tube 500 does sound good though. The thing goes very loud, way louder than i'll ever need and is slightly bass heavy, Turning it up ended up with the speakers rattling against the front grille, something that never happened with the Hartke. I've rolled off the bass a little and that lets the sound breathe a bit. The VLE just sounds unpleasant to my ears, I doubt I'll be using it but the VPF lets you access some nice sounds fairly quickly. The tones generally are pretty sensitive and I'll have to learn their little ways. 5mins in it is starting to sound better with a little bass rolled off, tiny low mid boost and the VPF up about a 1/4. As to the tube input, well you were right, it is subtle, more so than the Hartke for example but it does make a difference. Partly because it is a little louder but the tone is subtly different. At the moment the optimum spot seems to be about half tube and half s/s, which gives a more articulate sound than the tube input but with more warmth than the solid state. I don't think I'd miss it if I'd bought the LMIII but it's nice. Better still the case is a nicer colour with a bit less banana. The acid test will be at the next gig. Thanks for all your advice everyone.

Hi John, and everyone else who hasn't lost patience. I didn't want to answer this until I'd actually done something. Thanks to being stuck at home with a cold I have actually done some drawings and am going to get one of the people who have kindly volunteered to draw them up on their CAD stuff to do so. PM's coming tonight guys. I've also got some pics I took of the various builds and some notes roughed out which I'll pull together and get put up. I'll update as soon as I have something. The trick apparently is to keep off BassChat and actually do something in the real world

Personality clash then. Just the three of you or are there any more band members?

I don't understand why people don't talk more. You say [b]if[/b] he goes. I'm assuming the rest of the band either aren't in on this or are unwilling to change to keep him happy. If you both leave there is no band, unless you have a queue of other musicians just waiting to sign up. Is it a music thing, a personality clash or just boredom? I'd certainly be thinking of at least talking it through with the rest of the band. Secondly you don't seem to know if he wants to go on playing with you. A decent rhythm section could be snapped up by another band or form the basis of a new band where the two of you could set it up to give you the things you are missing. I'd invite him out for a session at the pub to at least explore the possibilities. Finally there's my wife's advice, 'don't put out your dirty underwear until you know you have clean' I'd be absolutely sure what I was going to do next before quitting a band. You might find the new drummer better or worse but it gives you time to find another band if you continue, and them time to bed the new drummer in before you move on. Good luck though

I use parcels2go to search for deals https://www.parcel2go.com/ I would avoid Yodel who have a poor reputation for handling any problems Cabs are pretty tough and of course they can't chuck anything heavy around quite so easily. I just wrap them in layers of corrugated card over bubble wrap, maybe with an extra layer on the corners. Use loads of tape on the basis that so long as the packing holds the insides should be alright. So far no problems

[quote name='chriswareham' timestamp='1454172213' post='2967239'] Missed this thread first time around. One thing I've been told, so take that as anecdotal until someone better qualified confirms it, is that modern class D stuff is rated at peak output while old school SS stuff is rated at continuous output. In other words, a typical "500W" class D will soon blowup if pushed hard, while my "125W" Acoustic 140 isn't struggling to match the same output level at roughly 25% on the master control. If so, it would explain several Orange Bass Terrors I've witnessed breaking down at gigs where my other head (100W valve) has no problems. [/quote]It's no wonder the average musician get's confused is it? The problem is that even when talking about something like peak power you might be talking about two different things. An engineer will be able to read beyond this but without a heap of technical knowledge it is so hard to sort out the advertising nonsense from the truth. At the risk of making it even more confusing I'll have a go. Sound isn't noise at a steady continuous level. At it's purest level it is made of sine waves. As the vibrating string moves from the point where it is plucked back to it's resting position speeds past the resting position and then slowing until it reaches it's furthest point and then continuing back and to it traces out a sine wave. This then repeats many times a second with the string gradually slowing down and moving less until it is plucked again. So is the peak the initial plucking position, the whole of the initial first vibration or the biggest sound it could possibly make? The amplifier and speakers have to track that string vibration so it becomes important to know which 'peak' you mean. The first peak of the sine wave is where the amplifier is producing most volts and the speaker has moved furthest out (or in). It makes little sense to quote this power though, this point only occurs for an infinitesimal moment. All sine waves are the same shape so if you know the peak you know what the rest of the sine wave is like. If you want to know how much power the amplifier makes then you need to know how much work it can do over the whole cycle. The average voltage if you like. That's where the rms bit comes in, rms is simply the mathematical trick we use to calculate the power from the sine wave. So the peak power is a nonsense because without the sine wave there is no sound! Now this is where the second sort of peak comes in. Sine waves are sound but they aren't music. Even that first note on the bass decays away until another note is sounded, and music has lot's of notes, and rests and gaps. So if your amp is peaking at 100W (rms of course) whilst you are playing by the time you tot up all the gaps,rests and decaying notes your average power might only be 5W or even less. On top of this you won't play all your notes equally loud, you might only play that 100W note four times in a night, your next loudest note might be a 50W note or you might have a 200W note you only play once in an evening, depends upon what music you play. In this case your loudest sound will only last a fraction of a second a few times an hour. The peak you are talking about might be the peak in the music, nothing to do with voltages. So 'burst power' might be very useful. If your TC/Markbass/Aguilar etc can give you 200W all evening and 400W bursts for the half a second when you need it then do you need to know or care how continuously that power is available? None of this is new either, old style solid state amps couldn't produce continuous power all evening and neither could valve amps. the main limitation was usually the power supplies. The electrical power is stored in big capacitors which are charged up by a transformer. Both large and expensive components and in the case of the transformer extremely heavy. Why put a 400W capable transformer in an amp which is only going to need to do that for 1/10th of a second every hour? the result is that the price of the amp will increase by 50% and the purchaser won't be able to lift it out of the van. In a band situation you probably won't hear a difference anyway. Now that explains why heavy old amps sometimes seem louder than lighter amps with the same wattage rating even if they are all rms watts. Bigger transformers, but there are other complications too, I'll stop there though this is already long enough.