Phil Starr

Does this include all the songs your band say they want to play but no-one else gets round to learning? (sigh)

Hmm one reason people are snappy about things is that they are feeling very defensive and threatened. You've said this guy is a learner and well down on the skills the rest of your band have. He may be incredibly tense in a band situation and covering that in bluster, talking about his tone may well be just a misplaced plea to be considered seriously as a musician. Do the other guys want to keep him in whist he develops? If so then you probably need to work together to bring him round. Guitarist and singers rarely really listen to what the rest of the band are doing, ("do you like the new bass line for that song?", "sorry I didn't notice")

Typically we've wandered off the OP's request a little. There's no reason why one of these mini line array systems couldn't be made to work. For vocals or indeed most of what a band needs you don't need to go up to anything like 20kHz and with a compact sub. there's the possibility of crossing over at pretty much any point you want so something like a 3" main speaker can handle the frequency range pretty well. The technical advantage of any line array, a shaped radiation pattern with a reduced dropping off in sound level with distance from the speaker is all good too. There's some technical hurdles though. Most of the speakers designed for use in these systems are of fairly low efficiency so you need a lot of them, pushing up the size and cost of the final system. If you've typically got a 3" speaker then the voice coil is small and the power handling reduced so again lots of speakers. Even a 3" speaker will be limited at the top end so you have to compromise the design or think about a tweeter. Conversely high frequency horns are really efficient, 110dB for 1W isn't unusual, so this is a really cheap way of producing high level high frequency sounds. Then there's that phrase 'compact sub' Smaller speakers are less efficient at producing bass and limiting the cab size ultimately reduces bass output. A lot of these systems use DSP to boost the bass so the response stays level, Eventually a small bass speaker, however good, runs out of excursion so the DSP will manage and ultimately limit bass getting through to the speaker. Ultimately this means these systems are limited in total sound output. You could get round it by spending a lot of money on exotic drivers and doubling up on subs but then you are getting into really high end prices. In the end they can be great for the acoustic performer or restrained acts but not for a full blooded rock band unless you are prepared to pay thousands. I looked into designing a system like this for myself. It just makes more sense to use something like 8+horns as satellites and a smallish conventional sub but crossing over at a slightly higher frequency than the usual 100Hz if you want something you can use with the usual pub band as you can get compact but loud at a bearable cost. the RCF ART408 goes to 126dB so with a sub might be a good approach http://www.rcf.it/en_US/products/pro-speaker-systems/art-4-series/art-408-a-mkii This is a useful article [url="http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec12/articles/spotlight-1212.htm"]http://www.soundonso...tlight-1212.htm[/url]

Just noticed they also do a cardioid version https://www.studiospares.com/product/469490?mc_cid=b3b45623b1&mc_eid=b1b33547eb £10 more but probably better if you play and sing at the same time as they are likely to be slightly less sensitive to people like me who can't stand still whilst singing. Might be more waht you are used to if you've moved from the SM58 which is also cardioid. It uses the same capsule though so should sound similar.

[quote name='skidder652003' timestamp='1450202646' post='2930512'] Yep got 3 of them, great mics! Bombproof [/quote] Steve is a famous breaker of speakers, if he says they are bomb proof........

Hmm choosing speakers on the basis of the colour? I'd think protecting his car is about size and weight rather than being grey and plastic. The other option to plastic is wood which is heavier and less forgiving when you bang things. The solution for a smaller lighter better sounding PA than the Mackie's is a quality speaker and probably a 10. The QSC K10 and the RCF 710 keep coming up for a reason. They are probably the smallest speakers that will reliably do what you want and both sound great. Add a sub and you are good for almost any situation indoors.

There's few of us can stay with a band which is doing less than it's best, whatever the niggle. I'm one for talking about things, talk to the other band members first, one of them may have an opinion and/or the ability to influence the errant guitarist. A band only works if you work together. State your problems simply and calmly if you get compromise then great. If not you have to decide whether it is something you can put up with or leave. One word of warning, once you have raised an issue you can't put it back in the box. It looks like I might be leaving my band today

If you are in a band with a drummer who uses normal sticks the Bose is going to struggle. What is he going to put through the PA? just his vocals or anything else. What is his budget? Frankly I think he'd probably be better off with a couple of grey boxes in terms of functionality. If he goes for RCF or QSC's then he could go down to a 10" box like the RCF HD 10-A's and these might fit into his house and sound better than the Mackies as well as being smaller. If he is just practising at home then why set up the PA? He could just get a personal monitor (I use the TC Voice Solo) which just clips onto a stand and can be used as a live monitor. It has a decent sound and goes loud enough to push you well into feedback levels, even set on the floor in a decent sized room (20'x16'). It also allows you to mix in backing tracks.

B1ON does everything you want, runs for days on batteries including rechargeables and has all sorts of useful extras including a metronome, drum patterns and a tuner. Sounds good through headphones too and is plenty loud enough and you can get a good mix whatever bass you use. It's one of those things that just works. Well made for the price too.

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1449939824' post='2928228'] You mention that Fane changed (presumably discontinued) the drivers that are in your 2x10, What were those? [/quote]They were sovereign 10-125's they still make something with the same name but with entirely different T/S parameters.

No your cab is compatible. Anything above 4ohms is fine. Just that the amp won't have to work so hard and will be a tiny bit less loud as a result. Two 8ohm cabs equals one 4ohm cab so if you have an 8 you could add another 8. Two 4ohm cabs equals one 2ohm cab so this is too low and you can't use another 4ohm cab. that's all they are warning you about.

I'm nothing to do with Studiospares or AKG but this is a great mic at an extraordinary price so just in case this is in your Chrismas list https://www.studiospares.com/product/439730?mc_cid=f872af9f73&mc_eid=b1b33547eb I already have two of these, so this offer is no good for me. They are much better sounding (more open and more detailed) than the SM58 for example, and reject feedback much better at the expense of you needing to get up close to the mic due to the tighter pickup pattern. Just thought it was worth passing on

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1449831565' post='2927247'] Thanks for that Phil. It looks like you just love experimenting and so the 1x12 is really a labour of love and a gift to the BC community. You said a while back that you were working on a 2x10 design for after the 1x12. Has the 1x15 Delatite superseded that? Also sent a PM. [/quote] Well if you go right back the spec for the 1x12 was created on another thread here. As I said the 2x10 is my 'go to' cab so I wanted to make that available for everyone else. It's got an 'old school' voicing is a one handed carry and because it has some high excursion drivers can pretty much cover any gig without the bottom end farting out. Unfortunately Fane changed the drivers so I need to look into finding replacements. Developing a 2x10 is just about looking for some replacement drivers. I picked up the Deltalites from Blue Aran in a sale just before the Chinese pushed up the price of neodymium £66 ea so I couldn't resist. I decide they were too good to sit around doing nothing so I built a cab alongside the 1x12 with the other half of the ply sheet and used it for gigs whilst Stevie ran tests on the 12. The original plan was to build a cab for the Kappalite 3015HO and publish that but GrahamT brought down his Kappalite (and went off with the cab ) The Deltalite compared reasonably well so that could become another published design. The current cab would take either driver with a flat response from the Kappa and a small mid-bass hump from the Delta. My thoughts are to get the 2x10 and 15 out fairly quickly after the 1x12, which covers the basic cabs most people use. Stevie is working on some designs with tweeters and midrange drivers which might add to the stable of designs. So hopefully we can cover most basic options fairly quickly. It's all made the 12 a bit slow in gestation but should speed up the next designs.

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1449826237' post='2927141'] Phil, are you still using the cab/cabs for gigging and what cabinet or cabinets have they replaced? [/quote] I rarely use both, too much for most venues, I often use one when we are in smaller venues just because they are physically small and light but I am currently working on a 15" Deltalite cab so that gets a bit of use at the moment. Two weeks ago I played at Exeter Chiefs after the Harlequins match and took the 15 with one of the 12's which sounded nice in a big venue. Before that I used a 2x10 mainly with two PA cabs used as bass cabs for big or outdoor venues. These are the cabs I cannibalized for the Beymas so they were basically the 1x12's with a large horn doing the honours above 1600Hz.. The 2x10 is my go to cab but I'm usually experimenting with new designs so it's a bit random.

The main decision is down to whether you want to start gigging with a drummer. For home practice the little practice amps are poor because the sound is pretty unsatisfying so the choice is between some of the smaller combos like the Roland or Hartke which have a much nicer sound or something which will probably be a little bigger and more expensive but which will gig like the Mark Bass. Only you can decide that. I've got the Hartke kickback, they are discontinued but good second hand buys. I paid £125 for mine in mint condition but you could probably get one even cheaper now. The sound is excellent and it is just loud enough for rehearsals and I've even gigged it in small pubs, you can just get away with it but it struggles a little in the louder sections. I use it a lot for open mics. I've played through a Roland Cube and they look OK. If this is enough for you then that's the route I'd go. You can sell it and get your money back when you upgrade so there's no risk. If you think gigging is imminent then something 200W or more is probably a better idea with probably 2x10 speakers to keep the footprint down if space is limited. The ability to use an extension cab then becomes quite useful.

I think the time for a systematic working through of the signal chain isn't far away however a couple of thoughts. Don't dismiss the output/speaker jacks yet. It's hard to get them properly cleaned and you may have moved something just by plugging and unplugging. Once the contacts start to tarnish my experience is they are never the same again and tarnish more quickly from then on. Secondly old jacks don't just get dirty they also get metal fatigue and the spring contacts make a weaker connection. Replace the jacks if they are suspect. Then if you want to create the fault at will get some freezer spray. I've tracked down way more than 50% of intermittent faults that way.

Four speakers would cost you £200 and that looks like Tough Cab (paint) rather than Tolex so really easy to touch up. Keep it or sell it on to someone here. you could probably play it for a year or two and get your money back when you sell it.

I've got the usual parbar system a few bands use. For all the reasons above I wouldn't recommend it. If you can't get it high it blinds you or the audience and it's a total hazard having a top heavy thing like that in an area people dance in. Only for bigger venues really. Look good though. All you really need is something to create a sense of movement and something else so you can both see and be seen We also have an ultrabar12 a metre long batten with 12 fairly powerful leds. Put behind the drummer it looks great and really colours up the backdrop. Because it is so compact it offers no hazard and doesn't shine in anyone's eyes. It's set to do it's own thing on a sound to light basis. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iXdQjxtNmg I'm about to add in some ordinary PAR cans just to add some colour to the stage and add enough light for us to see what we are doing. They'll be set either to a fixed colour or a very slow fade between colours. The movement then coming from the ultrabar. If we start doing functions then I'm going to add a lot more but this is ideal for a pub gig

You are going to struggle to get active monitors for £100 outside of Peavey, Laney and Carlsboro. A lot of the cheap Chinese unbranded stuff will struggle with handling a decent kick drum sound. If you already have a spare PA amp then look out for a set of Yamaha club series monitors which are cheap, reliable, loud and sound pretty good. I'm with Bill in wanting to separate the vocal monitor from the drum monitor. If the drums need to be loud enough for the whole band to hear on stage then your vocalist is going to struggle to hear themselves through the same speaker.

I've gone out as a duo with just guitar and bass, doing covers. There are songs that work and some that don't we try and avoid the ones that don't. In a way it is more fun, you have to be creative with arrangements and you have plenty to do in every song if you want to keep it interesting for the audience. That said we are looking to add a small kick drum and a pedal operated tambourine fairly soon, but percussion doesn't always have to be a kit. We've also met a duo who went out with a miniature kit and guitar. That worked really well too and the mini kit didn't take up too much space neither was it too loud. More to the point there is a whole circuit out there that a full blooded band can't play. The venues are too small and/or a band are too loud. Even if the fee is smaller your cut is usually bigger and you aren't carting huge amounts of gear so set up and knock down are quick.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1449346226' post='2922841'] I'm about as old as any of you, and, back then (I'm a bit passed it, now... ) often would set up a concert, free entry or not, and had a great time, every time. I can honestly say that I've never, in my long career, with my own groups or working with our eldest's formation, ever been 'screwed'. I don't think I'm just lucky, nor more gullible. I [i]do [/i]think there's some ordinary, decent folks out there who can be trusted (with a bit of common sense, of course...); not [i]everyone [/i]is a charlatan. I do despair of some here, I really do. If I was a bit more compassionate, I'd feel sorry for some. [/quote] I'm with Dad here, and I'm probably older than him. I used to promote everything from local band multi headers to free festivals. I can honestly say the only time I made a profit was for charity events, mainly I made a small loss financially but was rewarded by some great friends, fantastic experiences and some terrific music. One of the bands that played for free were Traffic who were huge at the time and the 101'ers soon to become the Clash. Many bands have been there, if it feels right and you can afford it then do it and have fun. Once you start getting repeat bookings from venues you can start being fussy but music in the UK has always been pretty cooperative.

Thanks guys, I think to be fair I'm going to go back and see who offered to do what and then pm everyone. I don't remember who offered first and I don't want to upset anyone who has volunteered. I just have to do the sketches and put the dimensions on them. No gigs this weekend and only one Christmas song to run through so shouldn't be too busy. Jim Lea anyone https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A8KT365wlA

you could always go Fender. American Deluxe.

As soon as I can I'm getting someone to do some CAD drawings. I'll then re-post with some instructions and a series of photo's of the build. I'll do this as a new thread and let everyone know on here when it is done.

The Faital works quite well in a 50l cab tuned to 40Hz which is about the size of the Mark Bass NY 151. you'll lose about 5dB at 40 Hz and get about an extra 1db at 110Hz. Pretty much what you expected I think. Coincidentally the speaker would just fit in the 112 cab we have designed for the Beyma SM212 and if you use the 26cm ports it will tune to 40Hz. I'd adapt that cab by making it a couple of cm wider just to fit the 15" driver a bit more comfortably and then cut the depth by 1.5cm so the volume stays the same, but you could just squeeze the Faital in. http://basschat.co.uk/topic/227904-1x12-cab-design-diary/