Phil Starr

I hope he isn't a basschatter If it sounded bad to you then it isn't really something to worry about, if in your opinion the outcome wasn't right then you don't need to replicate his approach. It could be he simply wanted to replicate his on stage tone but be able to fiddle around with the on stage amp without altering the PA output, sensible if you don't have someone mixing out front. However this looks like a very expensive way of achieving something you could do in other ways.

If you are only doing it up to sell then it probably isn't profitable to do much but no harm in getting a quote for a re-cone. Old drivers turn up on ebay from time to time so if you are in no rush then keep looking and an old EV may come up. Or try and sell your old working drivers to someone who has holed their other speakers but has a working 15. There's always a market for old drivers for people who love their vintage gear. If the driver is working you can repair. layer up tissue paper and latex adhesive (Copydex) over the tear as if it is a fibreglass repair on an old rusty car. you might get away with an old Peavey Black Widow as a cheap replacement, it'll be roughly right in a cab of that size, not ideal but I don't suppose the old EV was either. Used they go for £30-40 on ebay

The horn cab probably has a crossover in it so won't matter as far as calculating impedance is concerned (unless you buy a second horn) If the other three cabs are all 8 ohms then you probably shouldn't use them all in parallel as this will present a 2.6 ohm load to the amp. combine any two of the three and you should be fine. Turned right down you can get away with a lot but at gig volumes you will be demanding too much current from your amp if you just keep adding cabs.

I suspect most of us don't play with great technique, that's true of my own playing. If you want to observe note lengths properly then the longer notes have to sustain. Equally if your damping is sloppy then a bass that stops ringing quickly makes my messy playing sound crisper. There's not many bassists who play a good staccato for example a lot relying on palm muting and a pick to get a more staccato effect. The other thing about sustain is that generally the lower tones last longer than the higher overtones meaning the timbre changes as the note decays, great if you are playing a pumping root note but not great if you are trying to play something more melodic. I wonder if we all subconsciously choose basses with just the right amount of sustain for our playing style. I tend to pick up my (medium sustain) J bass rather than my sustaining American Deluxe P bass which shows up all my sloppy mistakes. Just saying. The other factor is amplification, at high levels with a bit of feedback all basses sustain.

People might be interested in a programme just broadcast on the BBC 'Copyright or Wrong' http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08md9xf Food for thought anyway

I wonder if George Harrison ought to get his money back for My Sweet Lord. That court case seems to have been dependant upon a couple of short runs up and down the tonic scale. surely no more copyrightable than a chord sequence. Of course it wouldn't be George but his dependants and the Beatles agent was busily ripping them off and trying to buy the original copyright. So much copyright law has nothing to do with protecting artists rights and only to do with trading in ancient song rights.

We used something like this to hold them up https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Hand+Tools/d10/Builders+Tools/sd140/Extension+Support+Prop/p66745 though ours came from Lidl

You need to give us an idea of budget. If money is no object there are some lovely sounding and small combos that would do all you are likely to need. The AER Amp One and the Markbass Alain Caron models come to mind. Or one of the 3-500W class D lightweight amps with a decent 12" speaker if you don't mind separates. Your choice there is pretty unlimited but if your budget is limited to a Rumble 40 then you are asking a different question.

New original rock bands? Rock is the music of my generation, the music of 40 years ago. It's a bit like asking why no-one writes original Dixieland Jazz, original Blues music or even original Britpop. Styles just come and go. Don't get me wrong I love all these and more but whilst there will always be people who love this style or that and will write tributes in the style they love most creative people will push the boundaries on from the music they grew up with. We're several generations on from true Rock so why would you expect people to doggedly stay in one place. There are plenty of successful bands and musicians around, music goes on and keeps changing, good luck to the kids there's no reason for them to humour our tastes. At least so far fashion still demands drummers and bassists

Back to the spec of your speakers. 300W continuous is the rating of how much power your speakers can dissipate as heat. Without getting all technical that means that you can pretty much use them forever with an amp of that power without them burning out. Programme means that if you play average music through the speakers they should be OK. It isn't measured in any way and is just the continuous level doubled. it's a made up thing really. Peak value is meaningless really, the speaker would be ok if the peak only lasted a fraction of a second and didn't contain any bass. PA engineers will/should know the physics and sometimes choose to use high powered amplifiers for PA, they know if they filter the bass and have compressors and limiters on the amps they can get away with double or more of the power handling because they can control the peaks. Basically what you have are 300W speakers (and that is what most 12 and 15" speakers will handle of any brand despite the advertising claims) and until you understand all the technical stuff stick to an amp which will develop that power.

Those Wharfedales will blow any of the other speakers you are looking at out of the water (both for sound levels and quality) and will take bass at semi acoustic duo levels all day. The Thumps are 6dB down on them in terms of sound output. The only problem is the weight (I use the active versions) and the need for a power amp but with an active desk you have that covered. There really is no point in taking a sub to reduce weight or trips to the car, a dedicated bass amp for these medium levels is likely to be lighter and smaller as well as more versatile. Save your money towards a better PA like RCF or QSC, until then the Wharfedales will do you proud.

The biggest problem with a guitar combo will be the speakers which aren't designed for bass, you'll probably blow them unless you cut the power by a lot. If you just want something at very low volumes then why not get one of these, basically a bass pre amp with all the tone controls you need (but not as many as you might want of course) and a bit of overdrive if you need it. Take the output from this into your guitar combo and keep that volume right down.

They are 2.5 mm and the rating is conservative as people have said. Celestion's Xmax is based on the dimensions of the voice coils and magnetic gap, they'll do a little better in practice. They'll do as well as most of the drivers used in commercial cabs though you'd want two if you were needing lots of low bass. They are 15's though so if you wanted to build a one cab for small gigs/two for bigger venues solution they'd work well. It is a good price for Celestion Neo's though.

I'd avoid any compression on the MG unless you really know what you are doing. They really increase the likelihood of getting feedback, especially if they are used on the vocal mics. I only use compression on the kick drum. Turn them all right down to zero before you start.

Re reading this thread I think you are on the edge of this being worthwhile at the moment. Your PA amp is pretty limited, it only produces 160W/channel into 8 ohms and 300 into 4ohms according to Behringers own manual. the 450W on the front is a peak rating not RMS. If your Peaveys are 8ohms the system won't be loud enough for bass at rock band levels. In any case by putting all your bass through the PA you'll be pushing the PA to it's limits unless you accept lower sound levels than most pub bands. Then there's the question of monitor mixes, basically you have two mixable aux channels which are set up to run the internal effects engines (echo/reverb) but which can be disconnected or paralleled by inserting the right sort of jack into the fx sends. Not complex but you'll need to read the manual to get it working. Assuming you'll use some echo on the vocals that only leaves you one mixable monitor channel or you can use the main mix in your monitors. Honestly the people who most need monitors are the vocalist(s) so your one spare channel should go to them. They may be happy to share it with you but IME inexperienced vocalists like a lot of monitor and you'll probably throw them if you share their monitors. I commend you for wanting to get as much audio clutter off the stage as possible and a fully mixed sound through the PA will ultimately be much better for your audiences but I don't think your current PA gear is up to it. By all means try it at rehearsals but I wouldn't base my purchasing plans on using the PA at this stage unless you are prepared to accept operating at moderate sound levels.

Cover Band Bingo, someone else put that up earlier in the thread. It's at the top of this page. I kind of agree, punters generally want to sing along or dance and they'll only do that if there is a degree of familiarity. There have to be moments in the gig where there is 'whoah, I love this song' which means the odd classic song. Equally though you need variety, and a bit of personality from the band. I certainly played in one band which gradually weeded out everything but the usual suspects. The audience reaction was interesting, they lost interest halfway through the set. There were no highs or lows and they'd heard all the songs several times before that month in all probability. We'd played a more varied set a couple of months before and got a great reaction. I love pizza but I wouldn't want to eat it every day and by the time we came back from Italy I'd happily give it a miss for six months. Classic Rock though covers 20-30 years where it was the dominant musical genre, depending upon how wide your definition of rock is. For most of that time hundreds of songs charted every year and the music moved on year by year so even within the genre you can be quite distinctive. There's also the risk of narrowing down our already diminishing audiences, if all covers bands end up with the same core set then you'll only go out once a year to see them, and it won't matter which one. There's no need for that to happen with so much back catalogue to choose from. I've just spent an hour going through local bands set lists for example. Only found one band that plays Final Countdown, hardly a less well known song. Most of them do Long Train Running and All Right Now seems to be compulsory, including for us.

Ha ha, you all know what I mean though. And you are spot on, the ones I think are fillers are probably another band members killers. In our case we've only just started gigging and a lot of songs remain from that original 'what do we all know' set list. Inevitably they are also in the 'bingo' list too.

Thanks Dave, the more the merrier, I' having fun listening to a lot of these. We tried a couple of ELO and they didn't work too well for us (I don't think their heart was in it), Get It On is already one we do. hardly Rock but it'd be fun to have a little Glam section to the set for functions which someone suggested earlier.

Some nice suggestions coming in now, keep it rolling

That wasn't what I meant to say. It's just that we all pretty much know what the usual fare is and will play a fair few of those songs already, we certainly do especially at a function or at the end of a set. I don't need a list of those. Come to that I don't need a list of songs up to about 1980. I was earning a living as a DJ playing a lot of rock music at the time so my knowledge of that period isn't too bad. For me though a band that only plays the usual suspects rarely goes down that well. You'll be playing the same songs the audience heard last week and the week before. Even a covers band needs a bit of personality and there are thousands of great rock songs to choose from. My problem is that once I got to 1980 I switched off into other music so I don't know much about what to look at, a few ideas here that I can go off and listen to and find a way in. Anyway I appreciate all the suggestions and I'm listening to a lot of them. Keep them coming please.

Ha ha, there's four of the 'bingo songs' in the set already. They are the fillers I'd like to replace over time. Oh god, I've gigged 14 out of 24 in the last two years. Anyway I'm not looking for the 'usual suspects' we all know those songs. I personally don't mind playing old cover band classics like Long Train Running, Sex On Fire and the likes of Mustang Sally but I didn't bother listing most of them. MY guitarist and singer are the ones who want to do 'classic rock' but they don't really agree on what that is. For the guitarist it's 70's and even 60's stuff with lot's or guitar in it (quelle surprise) For the singer it's the big pomp rock songs, sort of stadium rock. Like I say I stopped listening to rock mid 70's so I suppose I'm looking for songs from the late 70's and 80's. Preferably with strong keyboard parts and some vocal harmonies to play to our strengths.

I think people are trying to give you input, and from a perspective of a lot of experience. The answer to your original question is that yes you can use two 4ohm cabs with a 2ohm capable amp without problems. Whether that is a sensible thing to do is another question. Intuitively more watts means more volume but that isn't always what you'll find in practice. The second part of your question is how to sensibly go about getting more headroom for undistorted sound at high levels. The most reliable way of doing this is to look at doubling your speakers up. Adding a 2x10 to an existing 2x10 at the same amp power will give you an extra 3dB, that's exactly like doubling the amp power. Adding a 4x10 to another 4x10 will add 3db, also the same as doubling the power so an 8x10 is going to be 6dB louder than a 2x10 using the same speakers. That's the equivalent of moving from a 300W amp to a 1200W amp. Go on adding 8x10's and your amp will eventually fill any space The other thing is that the power supply in your amp isn't up to running at 2ohms. The power should double when you halve the ohms but in your amp it won't because it's 'engine' isn't big enough. In practice if you drive it hard at 2ohms it will heat up and become less efficient, it'll slow down on the hills to extend the car analogy. The other thing is that volume isn't everything, it still has to sound good. All people are trying to say is that 300W should be enough, not all speakers are equally loud but choosing wisely and doubling up is the way to go. Going down to 2ohms is usually a sign that you've started from the wrong place.

I need some Basschat wisdom. I'm playing in a 'Classic Rock' covers band. Great vocalist, good strong backing vocals, decent keyboard player and competent but not virtuoso lead guitarist, keyboard player plays guitar as well for half the set. It's not really my genre any more, I lost interest in Rock in the mid seventies so my knowledge of it is pretty limited from then on but I'm a musical tart and will play anything. I just want to entertain and get plenty of bookings and appreciative audiences. Core set is below, what would go along with these to make a killer set? Final Countdown Jump Fool For Your Loving Hush Don't Stop Me Now Somebody To Love; Queen Rock And Roll Pour Some Sugar On Me All These Things That I Have Done Sanctuary

There's something in common with a lot of bands and I think U2 and Dire Straights are as good an example as any. These bands/musicians work bloody hard for years building up a following and a back catalogue of songs that they've been trialling with audiences for years. I saw Mark Knopfler half a dozen times playing with an earlier band Brewers Droop who seemed to be constantly touring, and giving people a really good nights entertainment. U2 were hardly an overnight success. It's not hard to think of other 'overnight successes' who were plugging away for years. Then when bands break they have all sorts of skills to keep the momentum going for a while. I wonder if this is one of the reasons so many bands never repeat their initial success, they run out of ready made material. Established bands play to audiences who want to hear their old hits and don't have the chance to try out new stuff, or if they do are playing to fans who will love anything however ordinary. Of course there's a lot of luck too, there are lots of good songs out there but sometimes it just takes a little magic in the vocal or hook line to make a song a classic. Even then it has to be noticed or picked up by someone and given some air play. I wonder how many songs are lost because no-one gets to the magic hook line. I'm gonna stick up for U2, there's a dozen or more songs of theirs I love, most of you too probably. I reckon any musician who comes up with even one classic song that gives millions of people happiness or pleasure, or maybe sees them through tough times has paid their way on this planet. Sod it, even someone who plays for peanuts in a pub band entertaining people has paid for their salt. I'm off to listen to U2's greatest hit's, I'll probably play the bass along with them

I feel I should have responded earlier but mis-read your post. I thought you were looking for a guitar speaker not a bass speaker. Don't worry about not being able to match specs to 'tone', even for those of us with a lot of experience it isn't an exact science. Thiele Small specs only really tell you about the bass quality. The frequency response chart will give an idea of the sound of the speaker but only if you are doing this a lot and in the end it's only an impression, we still need to build and listen. That Fane looks like a good little speaker, it would have been on my short list. I really don't think you will find this very satisfying though as an open backed design. With a short path from the back of the speaker to the front the sound from the back will cancel the sound from the front and you'll have no deep sounds. Also with no air load on the back of a speaker which has a relatively soft suspension you will have to down rate the power handling quite a lot maybe as low as 30w. This isn't a problem for home practice but you mustn't treat this as a 225W speaker if you are tempted to try it with a band. At the very least seal the cab with a wooden panel and some mastic. If you get adventurous you can try porting the cab, that will give you an extra 3dB of bass and a fuller sound. You can port through the blanking panel which would leave your cab intact if you wanted to return it to guitar duties later. Someone here will help you with any calculations.