honza992

Oh and since I'm here and finishing is endlessly on my mind, how did you finish the Peavey above?  Looks great. 

Wow, thanks Andy, that's some great work you've done on my behalf.  I really really appreciate it!

Just to double check, was that 2mm thickness as it comes from Rocklite?  If so, I may try taking it down to 1.5mm and bending that in one go, along with a maple veneer, maybe with a backing strip of some kind, as @Christine suggests....and if that doesn't work then taking it down to 1mm and trying to glue two strips and the maple veneer at the same time.  I may run out of hands, but it's worth a go, I really don't like black plastic veneer.  I'll report back!

On 17/08/2019 at 07:29, Si600 said:

Are you facing the headstock with anything, there's a few layers under that 😉

Though it would be a shame to not see that GT stripe from the front. 🤔

Ooooh yes, they'll be some veneers on the headstock.  I'm thinking white/black/white/figured walnut to match the body......And now I've been reminded by @Gilmourisgod of his walnut Ric build, I'm thinking about binding as well, no doubt with veneer highlights as well.  Or I may change my mind and have a non-matching headstock....As you can probably sense, I'm going about this in my usual slightly casual fashion!

Nice progress Andy, looks great.

Quick question about the ebano as I've just ordered some for my build. Do you think you could bend it round the standard lower horn of a Les Paul, or is it too small a radius? If so I may try thicknessing two pieces down to 1mm each and gluing them both on at the same time.

Hi GIG, good to see you on this side of the pond.  Ahh, the walnut Ric.  One of my favourites, really a top job.  And the headstock binding rocks.  Which has now got me thinking about my current build.  I hadn't thought about binding the headstock, but maybe, just maybe it could work......Thanks!

I've decided to go veneer-tastic on this build, shoving them in pretty much anywhere I can see space.  So 3 layers went into the scarf joint, in for a penny and all that.  After gluing, the neck blank now looks like this...

The truss rod is done (I use the WD Music double action ones, the best, or least bad, ones I've come across).  I rout it upside down on the router table which is a joy.

Now, where else can I glue multiple layers of veneer?

(The neck I'm planning in my head may end up being a 25 piece.......)

13 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Not weird and probably would look fine. What fretboard wood are you using?

Rocklite ebano, or at least that's the plan at the moment, but like all my builds all could change at the last second!

Does anyone have a guitar that has wood binding on the neck, but plastic on the body??  Does it look ok, or is it a bit odd?

It's just that I'd like to do wood binding on the neck, but there's no way I can bend wood binding round the lower horn.  So I was thinking maple binding on the neck and cream binding on the body.  Weird?

What a great technique.  I love the way you come up with your own solutions, it really shows a creative mind.  Bravo!

Any chance I can get you to develop a similar technique for plastic binding?  'Aint no way I bend wood round the tiny lower horn of a Les Paul.....

Is this the sort of thing:

https://wheelspinmodels.co.uk/i/293658/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw4s7qBRCzARIsAImcAxZhpbFX0V4uRy44IL2HgQlIz022NzrqVxaxEh6Tk25hMk7RiAh--lcaAvpnEALw_wcB

I've made a little bit more progress.  First up the body.  I glued on the top veneer, using the vacuum bag/wine pump.  On top is a plate with air channels in that allows the air to get sucked out from all around the guitar.  Like dis:

Taking it out and it looks like this.  Looking pretty awful☹️  But fear not.  Partly that's the rubbish colour contrast thing on my phone throwing a wobbly, and partly it's bleed through from the glue.  I used (West System) epoxy to glue the veneer for exactly this reason.  I knew it would bleed through, but I also plan on using it for grain fill so any bleed through now is simply reducing the number of pores I need to fill later!  I'm not sure if this is a recognized veneering technique, but I was worried that bleed through using a different glue (like the Titebond Cold Press) would be difficult to hide.  Anyway, we'll see, my theory could be complete a_se and I'll have made splotchy lump of expensive firewood.  

Next up was the neck blank and scarf joint. I'm cutting a 12 degree angle and I first tried doing it on my radial arm drill (another eBay score).  

It was not a success.  I got about half way the blade stuck and the motor cut out, luckily before doing any damage to the blank.  (I should say the guard is always on before I cut anything).  So having sworn a lot, I finished the cut off on the band saw then turned to my despised belt sander.  The Clark 4" 6" Belt sander is like most other new stuff I've bought for the workshop.  It's sh_te.  Built to no tolerance at all that I can see, slop all over the place, poorly designed and sat unused for months after it was obviously not up to the original job that I bought it for.  But one thing I've found is that even sh_t machines eventually  have a use found for them.  Sometimes unexpected ones.  I now do my nuts (ahem...) on it for example and it works brilliantly.  Anyway, this is how I ended up using it:

I just stuck a piece of scrap to the underside of it, then hooked that against the guard that the belt sander has very helpfully got in exactly the right place.  A quick bit of trigonometry on the bank of an envelope meant that the piece of scrap was stuck in the right place to give a 12 degree angle. Here's the guard in case it's not too clear:

It's too early to say how successful the technique has been cos I havent glued the too halves together yet, but the angle is 12 degrees exactly and the two surfaces look pretty good.  We'll see tomorrow when I glue.  
 

On 09/08/2019 at 06:49, Christine said:

I do miss my drum sander, it was very handy for a quick tidy up of wood with a horrible grain. I used it an awful lot for thicknessing veneers cut on the bandsaw a job that would be next to impossible any other way. Have you noticed though how it tends to case harden the wood? I find it very much harder to sand the wood from a hand plane, that could be just my imagination of course but that's how I remember it so just curious

@Christine That's interesting, I'd never noticed any difference in hardness after using the drum sander, but bear in mind I don't use hand tools at all.  I have zero training and am too impatient with building guitars to learn how to use them!  I'm sure I will one day, I'd love to be able to whip out a hand plane for flattening a board, but for the moment I'm taking the easy option!  Also, I keep the paper clean and depth of cut very shallow, so I don't generate much heat though it is something I look out for. 

On 11/08/2019 at 12:23, Richard R said:

So instead of two dozen clamps, you have a bag that you suck the air out of with a Vac-u-Vin pump, and the piece is clamped completely evenly at 33psi by air pressure? That's genius. Do you clamp the neck laminate that way too? 

I don't need one (yet), but how much are they and where from?

Exacto.  Air pressure is loads strong enough for what I'm doing.  It's made by these lovely people, and I really can't recommend enough, especially given the alternative is many many hundreds of pounds..

https://roarockit.co.uk/

I didint' do the neck laminates that way.  I just glued it with lots of clamps in a more traditional way.  Even with 9 pieces using Titebond Original is no problem, even with it's pretty short open time as long as you are oganised, pre cut all the pieces to roughly the same size and work at full speed. 

On 10/08/2019 at 20:15, BassTool said:

This is looking pretty awesome so far. Tru oil finish on the cards?

 

I know of a good 'how to' on here  😜

😂😂 Funny you should mention that.....but actually, no!  This one will get grain-filled then finished probably with a home made wiping varnish.....though that is some way off....

Thanks all for your interest😁

On 06/08/2019 at 06:58, Christine said:

A vacuum bag and a drum sander, yours?

That's looking really good, I do like the detail from the outer veneers in the neck laminates, very classy. What did you think of working with the Rocklite? I'm very impressed with it so far

Yes so far I really like the rocklite.  It seems to work very easily, and less prone to chipouts than ebony is, at least with my mediocre skills.  Also I'm becoming something of an Extinction Rebellion eco-rebel, so am (very very reluctantly) using up any exotic wood I've already bought, but won't be replacing them.  

On 05/08/2019 at 21:18, Jabba_the_gut said:

Lovely! Looking forward to seeing how this turns out - very nicely I expect!! really nice piece of walnut and a bargain as you say. A really nice find that.

Still got to get me a drum sander....

On 06/08/2019 at 06:58, Christine said:

A vacuum bag and a drum sander, yours?

That's looking really good, I do like the detail from the outer veneers in the neck laminates, very classy. What did you think of working with the Rocklite? I'm very impressed with it so far

14 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

It's looking very good indeed.  I feel a workshop visit coming on

Thanks all, so far so good. 

The drum sander is probably my favourite machine.  It just does what it does well.  I bought it on eBay for £350 as water damaged stock.  And it was.  It looked as though it had been standing in a swamp.  But it is rock solid.  I've had it for about 3 years and I've adjusted it once.  A slow feed rate and a very shallow cut and it will do a marvellous job till the cows are at home, feet up, drinking cocoa.  It was just one of those ebay bolts from the blue.  It was cheap as chips and was 3 miles from my house.  Never will that happen again.  For the benefit of @Jabba_the_gut here's a photo of the beauty in its natural habitat:

The vacuum bag is less impressive, but I have to say just as effective. Here it is gluing on the matching mahogany veneer headstock for a tele that is finished bar the fret levelling:

So here's where I am.  Both ash plates glued on.  Still completely rough cut, but some lovely side grain.  I'm half tempted to leave it as it is, rather than gluing on the walnut veneers.....

Oh, and @Andyjr1515 you'd be really welcome.  Your scarf joint expertese would be pure gold......😁

A little bit of progress. 

I've hollowed out the inside of the walnut core, drill press followed by router.  I routed a wiring channel for the switch and drilled a small hole (that you can't see) that will hopefully line up with the bridge ferrule so it can be grounded.  The back ash plate was already glued on when I took the photos, and the front plate is in a vacuum bag being glued on to the front as I type.

I also glued together a neck blank using wood from a beautiful Walnut board I picked up at Brooks, my local builders hardwood yard in Nottingham.  The board was a perfect 8" wide and about 8 feet long.  It's got really beautiful grain and some flame, even if a bit hard to see in the photos.  For £80 it was really a bargain.  It was also almost at the top of the pile.  Sods law clearly had taken a day off. Here I've glued it together as a 9 piece neck - Walnut/maple/rocklite ebano (an artifical ebony) with black & white veneer accent lines.  I forgot to take any pictures of the gluing process (and anyway it's somewhat hectic), but it's really a great moment when you scrape back the dried glue to reveal a perfect striped blank.  Any in my limited experience they are stable in a way that non-laminated necks never are.  

A gratuitous stripey shot....

(Diagonal lines are from the drum sander, not the wood)

On 26/07/2019 at 10:37, Si600 said:

Always seems to happen that way, despite our best intentions 😉

Ha ha it's true.  But the only way I can generate leftovers and scraps of wood to use on future builds is to buy new wood now.  See? 😬🙄😂

37 minutes ago, Christine said:

Have a look at my "Twins" build, it has many of the same elements in there

Believe me I have it bookmarked!

Hi All

It's been a while since I did a thread in real time, so I thought I'd start one for my new build.  Especially since it's got some elements I've never done before - LPish, neck angle, scarf joint, set neck - so will shamelessly pump you all for information. 

My plan is to build a g*itar loosely based on the Gibson ES Les Paul.  So it will be LP shaped, chambered, f-holes, probably P90s.  Wood wise it will be mostly walnut, with figured walnut veneers front and back, double bound. I'm not looking to do a carved top yet, so it will be flat a bit like a B&G.  Like a B&G I'm also thinking of having a slotted headstock and tailpiece.  

So imagine these two had a love child....

Here's a wood pile, and a neck blank I've already made. I'm trying to use wood that I've accumulated for no particular use, or that is left over from something else. 

So far I've got:

- A one piece walnut body. It's too thin, so I've jointed some ash plates to be glued on front and back, just to bring the body up to 44mm or so.  They'll be hidden by the binding & veneer. 

- Some walnut veneer, for front and back.  The body will be double bound, probably in ivoroid. 

- A 9 piece neck blank - (fake) ebony/maple/sapele.  I made this for something else then never used it. I'm a bit in two minds whether to run with this one or to make another one with walnut rather than the sapele.  Given everything else is walnut, I think the slightly orangy sapele may clash, colour wise.  So if I can nip down to Brooks to buy some rough cut walnut, I may glue up another multi-laminate neck with walnut rather than sapele. 

Here are the veneer sheets:

And doing some very rough layout on the walnut core, just for fun. 

Thanks for looking!

Thanks all, some good stuff for me to look up.  I love biarnel and Wood & Tronics, and lots of others I hadn't come across so I appreciate all of your posts!

Any amateur builders in Tuscany/Liguria?

@Silvia Bluejay  She's from Massa Carrara, so Tuscan, though we may head up into Liguria.  Chiavari is a possiblity.....Where are you from?

If you can ignore the politics and the bureaucracy (and that's a pretty big if), then Italy has lots going for it.  They really do like children there.  In restaurants the neighbouring tables will actually talk to Natasha (who's 3 and needs no encouragement), rather than just put up with her as mostly they do here.  The waiters will happy whisk her away to go and meet the chef leaving you alone for a precious 5 minutes without a tiny person asking 'why' repeatedly.....

On 24/07/2019 at 10:29, Andyjr1515 said:

 

Trust you will carry on with your immaculate builds

 

I've got one starting this very day!  😁  There's a bit of time before we go....like ummm 6 months....so I shall shamelssly keep stealing Basschat communal knowedge before unleashing it on the unsuspecting Italians.....

On 19/07/2019 at 09:31, Huge Hands said:

Interesting, as a ginger who retreats at even a slight beam of sunlight, I've been struggling with the heat for weeks.  Feels like we're talking about different countries......

 

HH, today has been record breaking, but when I mention that to Mrs Honza she looks at me witheringly then says she's cold and can I find her jumper.  Honestly, it's as though we are biologically different animals....

Hee hee, I knew this was a can of worms!

@chris_b I'm sure no one here would claim to be better at making guitars than Alembic, I know I'm not, fact.  But we are definitely more honest in the marketing of the guitars we do make. 

Physics, unfortunately, is not something you can have an opinion about.  It simply is.  (Well, maybe at a sub-atomic level, but even Alembic don't make claims about that).   The body and neck of an electric guitar simply provide two anchor points (the nut and the bridge) for the string to vibrate between.  I'm not claiming wood doesn't effect sound, it does.  I'm pretty sure a guitar with a solid ebony neck would sound slightly different to a balsa wood neck.  More or less its a matter of how 'floppy' the neck is.  A more floppy neck absorbs the strings' higher frequency vibrations and slows the attack, that would make sense to Isaac Newton.  So if you make a neck from multiple veneers it will still have one 'floppiness' value, but Alembic claim that by adding in different veneers into the neck construction you can add in particular sound characteristics.  Add in mahogany for upper mids, ebony for lows, etc etc.  Cosmetically it sounds like an appealing theory, but I'm pretty sure it's  wrong.  

But then I did A Level physics 30 years ago, so what do I know. 

Any PhD'ers out there that can give a definitive view?

I'm designing my next build and thinking about what laminates to use for the neck.  This page makes me laugh every time I visit.  It's like a salad bar for choosing upper mids or crushing lows.  I know I'm not supposed to knock the legendary builders, but this is utter rubbish.  In my opinion of course😁

http://www.alembic.com/info/wood_neck.html

My other half is Italian.  But as happens to all Italians who have been here for more than a few years, the lack of sun has finally defeated her.  She likes the UK, she even likes us, for God's sake, but she simply can't understand how any country can have such consistently dreary weather.  She can't accept that it's possible to go through all of July and two thirds of August before you get a decent day of sunshine.  I've tried to introduce her to the joy of a deserted, wind-swept Welsh beach, 15 degrees in summer and sand in your sandwiches, but I'm afraid she just doesn't get it. 

So long story short we're moving to Italy, most likely at the beginning of next year. 

So I was wondering if there are any Italian builders out there?  We're probably going to be in Tuscany/Liguria, somewhere between Pisa and Genoa.  

Ciao for now!

That's really worked out beautifully.  There's quite a dramatic difference between the rough cut top and the final photo you've got.  Did Jon spill any beans about whether he had dyed it, or what finish he used?  That's going to look top shelf. 

Sorry for the derail, but @Jabba_the_gut was there are build thread for the sycamore/wenge/LED bass?  That is outstanding!!

Brilliant work, very elegantly done.  Pro instruments, for pro players.  Top man. 

21 hours ago, Manton Customs said:

Grain filling sucks so if I can save some pain I’m happy to help! It’s the Z poxy finishing resin you want for grain filling, which only comes in one cure time and I think is 30 mins (so ideal). But it depends on the temperature where you work.

I sand back in between coats (it’ll take at least two) to bare wood then do a final thinned coat (with iso alcohol) to get an even colour. The final one is more like applying a wiping varnish. This works well if you’re using water based poly as the epoxy will pop/amber the grain nicely.

 

 

Quick follow up if you don't mind.  For grain fill I've been reading about microballons, do you use them, or just neat?