honza992

I'm pretty sure the answer to this is...no, clearly not, what were you thinking you complete numpty....

....but is there any reason why brass can't be routed?

Make a template for the plate from 12mm mdf, sandwich 2mm brass stock with another piece of 12mm mdf then trim it on my router table with the speed as low as possible. 

Just, you know, a thought😋

11 minutes ago, Jabba_the_gut said:

Could you possibly get away with a Stingray type arrangement where the pickguard and control plate don't join? Would save having to re-route anything and I presume you were already going to have to get a custom pickguard. I made a control plate for a bass from a bit of brass and got it chrome plated and it looked really nice. I'll try to find the name of the platers I used and let you know.

Looking nice so far though - and the neck is lovely!!

Cheers

Jez

Thanks Jez, I'd be really interested in the chrome plating idea.  Doing my own plate would be the ideal solution. 

How difficult is brass to cut and shape?

I'm a great one for never following my own advice.  Part of which is ALWAYS have all hardware to hand for doing layout before starting to cut.   Paticularly if you're doing non-standard scale lengths (which I normally do🙄) because that throws everything out.  So anyway, there was a delay on receiving the control plate, but it's only a control plate, right, no need to delay building....?  Wrong.  Goddam it.  It hadn't occured to me that a 33" scale and more ergonomic design means that everything is shifted by about 2 inches in comparison to a normal fender 34 inch.  So if the control plate is in the right position, nicely parallel with the side of the bass, it's completely mis-aligned with the pickups....

Or if I align it right with the pickups, it's completely misaligned with the side of the body.  And that's the sort of thing that would give me sleepless nights....

Ho hum.  I think the best solution (other than following my own advice) is to fill in the Precision pickup rout, and re-rout it a centimetre or two  nearer the nut.  That will just allow enough space for whole pickup to be underneath the pickguard.  Though obviously means the tone will be slightly affected. 

The other option that occured to me, was to reverse the two halves of the P.  Fender themselves do it with the Mark Hoppus jazz...

The thinking is that the bass strings are a big tighter sounding (being a bit close the bridge) and the top two strings are a bit warmer.  Or at least I think that's the idea.  Anyone tried out a reverse P?  Maybe I'll do that, edit the thread title, hope no one notices and pretend that was my intention all along😏. 

Any opinions?

Today I glued in the MOP blocks.   I used West Systems Epoxy which is great, but is a pain if you are only using small quantities, as I normally do.  So I've started using medicine syringes to meausre out very small quantities, taken direct from the can.  No waste, no scales, no hassle.  I use a children's Nurofen syringe for the Resin (half a syringe is 2.5ml) and a Vitabotics one (0.5ml).  It really works great, and a vast improvement over the pumps that West Systems sell that only measure out large quantities and leak all over the place.  And cost twenty quid...

I started off with some rosewood sanding dust (400 grit) but on my test piece I found that it was a bit light.  So I added some black powder, in this case Behlen's black furniture powder.  It's been sitting on a shelf for years and I've never used it.  No idea why I bought it, but this seemed like the ideal time to bring it out.  Anyway, I added maybe 20% black to end up with this...

Then I syringed on 2.5ml of resin onto the top of the sawdust, mixed it well then added 0.5ml or 205 hardener.  Mixed it well for a minute or two, then glued on the blocks...

Following @Christine's advice, I just held them in using finger pressure, no clamps or anything.  Tomorrow I'll sand, and judgement will follow😲

Just now, Andyjr1515 said:

That is SUCH neat work...      Beautiful!

He he 🤣the neatness of the work (and the camera in this instance slightly exaggerates) is inversely proportional to the utter, complete, all encompassing, overpowering and overwhelming mess and chaos in the workshop 😧

I need to have more visitors, cos it's the only time I tidy!

A bit more progress on the neck.  

Lots, and lots, and lots of tape....

Then on to sanding the radius....

Man I love rosewood.  It's just so beautiful to work with.  I know the CITES restrictions are for our own good, but every time I think about it I feel genuine sadness. 😢

Wow, that's a work of art! 

I use an equivalent which is a 3mm slot routed in some mdf. Keeps the nut nicely at 90 degrees when sanding. Works surprisingly well😎

Mock-up time. 

I'm usng what (I think) is standard 60s pickup placement for the bridge - 8% of scale length away from the bridge.  The P will be what is standard for a precision, 16%.  

Tomorrow I'll get the templates done and start routing😁

Next up, pickups.  

Guess what's in this beautiful box?

Pickups!  Yay😁

They're a matched '62 set from House of Tone. 

Now, I don't like to complain.  I chose them because I wanted to use British made artisan pickups.  I'm sure they're going to sound great.  But if you were a boutique pickup maker wouldn't you spend an hour or two making a template so a nice and neat pickup hole can be routed?  Pickups are all slightly different sizes.  And the generic templates are rubbish (and I've got plenty of them).  Clearly, you must have a drawing in CAD for the moulds to have been made......I don't know....maybe I just expect too much, but I'd happily pay a fiver for a template to save me the couple of hours it'll take to make my own.  Anyway I guess the important thing is how they sound.......

A little bit of progress today. 

First up, binding.  On @Norris 's advice I took another look at the binding issue.  The binding I had been trying was ABS plastic and was a pain to bend - either it was straight or it was melting.  So I ordered some celluloid binding from Rothko & Frost and the difference is obvious.  Here's a test piece that I was easily able to bend using a hairdryer...

So bindings are back!  Hurray!

Here with the channel cut...

Celluloid rocks🎸😎

On 26/08/2018 at 11:33, Christine said:

Can I just add the reason I marked and routed the blocks before radiusing was because the Mother of Pearl isn't flexible so I couldn't get it marked out accurately or seat it if I routed a curved bottom following the radius of the board. With wood or Celluloid that isn't an issue

@Andyjr1515  Andy, having now done the routs for the blocks, I would strongly endorse what Christine says here.  Trying to score round a wobbling piece of MOP on a radiused board would be a nightmare...

Now you have a router table, have you thought about using router bits?  They're available in the UK and (reasonably) cheap...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yonico-13005-Radius-Guitar-Radiusing/dp/B06W2M7892/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1536173060&sr=8-1&keywords=fretboard+radius+router+bit

I've got a similar  12" one and it cuts scrap beautifully.  I'm still trying to work out though how to fit it into my normal work flow ( I normally glue the board on first, which is problematic).  I think you radius then glue? Supposedly that's more easy to do.  

Just now, Andyjr1515 said:

There are some changes I would make...in fact the biggest change is that I'd buy a G&W rig instead of building my own!  It came on the market after I'd built mine...

I've seen those and was tempted....the only issue I could see (other than the cost, clearly) is that the base of the radius jig itself aren't wide enough to take a 5 string bass fretboard.  The max width is 70 mm (I checked with G&W) which isn't really wide enough.  I can't understand why you would go to all that trouble to spec, design and produce (what I presume is) a top quality product, but not make it 10mm wider.  What luthiers only make 6 string guitars?  Surely a 5 string bass is the minimum you would design for.  Very very odd.  And a great shame, and opportunity wasted. 

1 minute ago, Norris said:

I did do a build thread but on another site. Non-bass guitar builds were not quite so prevalent on BC back when I started that one.

If heat is not bending it enough for you, you could try a dab of acetone to soften it slightly before heat bending. Too much or too long with the acetone may distort it though. You can get small bottles of acetone from your local pharmacy. It doesn't half evaporate quickly though! (I spilled some and the floor was wet for about 5 seconds!) Maybe try some on a small offcut.

Failing that you may need to cut and join it

OK, nice tip about the acetone.  I'll give it a go. Thanks!

Nothing constructive to contribute other than admiration.  I hoestly believe that if you can craft an acoustic then you are a luthier.  The rest of us are just builders.  

Great work.  Carry on!

22 hours ago, Christine said:

My other half called Bassdirect today to find out where the pickups we ordered were, turns out they sold the last one nearly two weeks ago the same day as I ordered mine and they haven't bothered getting in touch with Mike Lull until after the call earlier. Am I impressed with that you might ask? 2 - 3 weeks they say, bet it's 4 - 5, I'm in half a mind to cancel and use Mojos, I really really hate shoddy service, I suspect that will be my first and last order with them, not happy! Considering Andy's experience getting his Nordies in for Len's beautiful bass I shall expect a toilet roll in the post on the first shipment! (can you tell I'm a little cross?)

I've had exactly the same thing with bassdirect.  Why have a website that says 'in stock' or 'out of stock' if that isn't accurate.  Why not keep your customers updated?  I really don't understand.  Retailers operate on such a tiny margin, that customer service is the only thing that seperates them.  And bassdirect are, I'm sorry to say it, rubbish.  I've ordered from Bestbassgear in the US, and the service is outstanding.  OK, you have the slight extra palaver of paying the VAT and duty, but at least I know what's in stock and how long it will take.  And when I have contacted their customer service they are brilliant. Come on bassdirect, get it together. 

OK, interesting. I've just tried bending a piece of pearloid binding and managed to bend it perfectly easily round the heel of the neck. Clearly not all binding is made out of the same material, and some bends a lot easier than others. 

I wonder if you can get a vintage white made out of the same stuff as the pearloid one I've just practised on.... 

3 hours ago, Norris said:

What type of binding are you using? I managed to get celluloid binding round a 1/4" turn. I used a hairdryer to get it nice and hot so I could bend it, then used weld-on to glue it. Once it was set, I then used a few drops of acetone in the slight gaps so I could pull those in and neaten it up

Wow that looks great. Did you do a build thread? 

I'm trying to use white plastic binding. I've tried both hot water and a heat gun. 

I wonder if celluloid has a lower melting point? I'm not sure a hair dryer would be enough to soften the plastic binding enough. A hair dryer would solve the issue of the heat gun heating it too much and melting it though. I'll steal the wife's and give it a go. 

Or of course you may just be better at it than me! 

Well the 1mm binding arrived from David Dyke and it's perfect.  It would have matched the vintage white paint exactly.  Unfortunately I still can't get it bent round the curve at the heel of the neck, it's just too tight a radius☹️. Sooo.....binding will have to wait till my next build.  Had I thought of this before, I could have modified the shape of the neck (to incude the traditional Fender heel curve) and all would have been fine.  Oh well.  Next time. 

Thread title edited to reflect my failure😲😭

Andy I've reached the point of radiusing the Jazz bass I'm building at the moment and like you I just can't face doing it by hand. It's no fun. 

I think you've used this a few more times now. How has it worked out? Are there any adaptations you would make? 

Thanks all for the input.  I'm going to use the MOP.  I spent most of today routing out the channels for the blocks.  More or less I used @Christine's method, ie:

1. Masking tape on the back of the blocks, and the fretboard.  Use centrelines to line them up.  Thin superglue them in place.  Score round the edge with a blade.  Then VERY carefully prise them off.  Very carefully.  I had the corner of one break off because I went at it too quickly.  

2.  I found it useful to use masking tape to make clearer where the edge of the block is.  Being a bit ditzy, I can very happily rout away, completely forgetting that I'm supposed to be stopping at the line.  So the pink masking tape is there as a reminder!  I then routed with my palm router (not a dremel) and a 3mm mill bit.  I thought this stage was going to be the most difficult.  Actually it wasn't.  The router rode on two stacked pieces of 18mm mdf, either side of the neck and it went very smoothly.  My palm router (a Dewalt, the best designed tool I own) has a light underneath so I was able to see pretty clearly.  I hand routed to within 0.5 - 1mm or so.  

3.  Chisels to then cut up to the line.  This was....less easy.  Other than for prising templates off😲, I've never used a chisel in my life. I'm not even sure quite how to use them.  Am I supposed to be hitting them with a malet?  Just pushing then to sort of slice wood off?  I used a combination of both techniques.  I found that the most important thing was that they were sharp...(I'm a slow learner!).....I sharpened them before I started and half way through.  Actually I think I should have sharpened them 3 or even 4 times.  This was the end result...

Not perfect, (and this is the best one) but I'm pretty happy.  I'm hoping that epoxy and sanding dust will make up for my sloppy work....

Stupid question. When you say to flatten the rear face of the blade, do you mean the whole thing or just a few millimetres next to the cutting edge are flat? 

Christine could I ask what glue (with sanding dust?) you used to glue in your blocks and how much pressure it needs? I would hate to have one crack. 

Thanks for your invaluable advice. 

What do you think?

The only mother of pearl inlay blocks I have been able to find are for guitars, so they're smaller than blocks would normally be for bass.  I've cut the fret slots and just laid the MOP on top to see what you think...

As opposed to normal jazz bass blocks which look like this...

Alternatively, I could use a sheet of celluloid and cut it down down to size.  Something like this..

Now I know this is well and truly a matter of little to no importance, but if anyone has an opinion, let me know.  I'm leaning towards the celluloid.  I'm just not sure I like the look of the smaller blocks, which are Les Paul size. 

Finally, here's some lovely contours!

Today was a day of experimenting, largely unsuccessful😮

First up, bindings.  As I feared, bending 1.5mm plastic round a 6mm radius curve (on a scrap neck) is really hard.....

I've tried both hot water and a heat gun, and while I can get pretty close, I just can't get it accurate enough so that I'm confident it will stay on long term.  If you have gaps they act as a lever when you press on them, lifting up the binding elsewhere.  Fender necks have a curved neck heel which increases the radius of the curve.  So, I've ordered some 1mm binding which I'm pretty sure I'll be able to bend ok, but that's getting really thin.  I'll see what it looks like.  Binding may have to wait till the next one. 

Blocks.  I tried @Christine's method on some scrap and it is great.  What is less great is the condition of my chisels😲  If only there was a thread dedicated to sharpening......(he he thanks Christine!)