Leonard Smalls

Problem is the drum pattern is so complex I can't see the groove in it - following the hi hat so far seems easiest as he's doing rolling and shuffle patterns on toms and snare...

I was hoping someone could recommend a bit of software I could load directly into my brain! But I suspect that's not an option... The problem isn't so much playing straight 5:4 or 7:8, it's more playing a groove within those sigs that doesn't start on the first note and doesn't follow an obvious groove pattern - I suppose it's a question of practice, and learning to play more melodic lines than I'm used to. I've always played straight riffs that repeat or get developed...

I've just joined yet another band, this time with a seriously good drummer. I mean world-class-good, played with Free Improv types like Evan Parker; problem is I'm well-used to playing standard funk or rock grooves but mainly in 3 or 4 time. So has anybody got any tips on coping with weird rhythms/time sigs etc? Any exercises, books, YouTube tutorials? We're doing crazy, semi-improvised jazz-rock and so far I've managed to busk it by watching his hi-hat like a hawk and dropping notes where appropriate, but it would be nice to find a way to work with strange grooves as well as also being On The One!

It's obvious the boy's very talented. But also quite staid, despite wishing to appear the opposite. He's trying very hard to be different, but only manages to be a tiny bit different. His piano playing, while very good, is not in the same league as other precocious talents such as Hiromi Uehara either in melody, rhythm or inventiveness. Did anybody say Bobby Crush? 😁 Still, I'd much rather him than much wetter dinner jazz, or The Smiths!

Take your pick!

I think that unlikely... Mainly because: a) he's no longer with us b) his idea of musical heaven was Chris Barber, or Sidney Bechet

Less of your Radical Silentist talk!

Now you're getting into zerotonal territory...

It's very like Bill Laswell's "Baselines" album, though Mr Neon has elevated it by the addition of a sock. Also a hint a Squarepusher... Genius!

Out of tune is a relative term... If we were only talking about our standard western system of 8 note scales within a 12 tone octave, fair enough. If you listened to Schoenberg, he'd be making music where all 12 tones are equal - that sounds "out of tune" and dissonant if you're only used to the 8 notes we usually use. However, if you use an interval between notes that isn't an Equal Temperament such as the Chinese tuning, that also sounds "out of tune" to us. Then you can use notes that are between our 12 tones - like somewhere between E and F - which would be microtones as used by Mr Fuze above, not easy on a guitar without it being fretless! But more notes means more possibilities, I'm sure we'll soon hear songs in the charts composed using the Bohlen Pierce scale, like this 😁

Mostly? Not all? It's slowly seeping in... Soon you'll be humming this on the toilet! As Zappa said - "Does humour belong in music?"

You're getting it - as the Chillis said many years ago: "Funk 'em, just to see the look on their face, funk 'em just to see the look on their face"! Just one more puff and you'll soon be in my grasp... Have some Fuze - only partly improvised and relatively sane but an easy way into microtonal stuff and weird keys.

I'd never really tried Henry and His Cow... Having dived in a bit seems like the sort of thing I'd really like bits of, and really hate other bits of. I think they're very like Magma - though I think I prefer the Frenchies! It's all a bit drones and repetition though I find the fireworks bits of Magma more exciting - though they're very far from improvised, in fact probably prog! You sound like my dad! 😉 But getting into this type of odd music is basically a question of finding something that speaks to you a bit, then you're no longer quite so resistant to the next lot of weirdness, then it's a slippery slope to Zorn's Noisecore... Bit like becoming immune to violence through watching video nasties! Here's my favourite bit of free improve, featuring Jamaaladeen Tacuma on bass, Calvin Weston on drums (i.e. Prime Time's rhythm section) with Derek Bailey freaking out on guitar:

I had the misfortune today of working at a "family fun day". There was a girl singing and playing guitar - many people were saying how nice it was to have lovely music; to my ears it was like nails on a blackboard. She strummed basic chords, her song choice was bland, her singing nasal, occasionally a bit flat and increasingly annoying. But otherwise OK. I mean just about OK. I mean lowest common denominator OK - safe, of no musical interest, boring, kum-by-ah round the campfire OK. I would have preferred to see the folks shaken up a bit, challenged, taken out of their safe zones. But it'll never happen because it's easier not to - people like what they know and know what they like! Perhaps this is why I failed as a music promoter! 😁

Funnily enough I discovered the weirder end of jazz completely by mistake; I was DJing in Leeds in the 80s - mainly funk. And as there was no real means I knew of finding new music I'd buy stuff completely on spec. One day I saw an album cover with a sharp dressed black guy holding a Steinberger bass - it was an import costing £8.99 (this was 1985!!!) but I thought this looks like new funk, I'll play it at the Warehouse tonight! It was Jamaaladeen Tacuma's "Showstopper". I played it before sticking it on the dancefloor - didn't sound straight 4:4, there was weird repetition, there were too many notes, it just wasn't right. So I shoved it in the back of my record collection. A couple of years later I listened to it again, and somehow it just made sense... But it was a slippery slope, I craved more oddness, more dissonance, more crazy. Ornette and his harmolodics weren't enough. Through Shannon-Jackson I discovered Last Exit, Brotzmann, Bill Laswell, Sonny Sharrock, Steve Lacey, Lol Coxhill and the holy grail - Derek Bailey. It was like starting with a fag behind the bike sheds, graduating onto a sneaky spliff, onto white powders, bits of blotting paper, and finally, Free Jazz Improv. All other music sounded dull. After a long visit to the Betty Ford Clinic I was weaned back onto "normal" music, but thanks to this thread I'm hooked again. Cheers!

Most things operate at a higher level than me, unless they're on a lower level. Or the same level, obviously! Like this though:

Perhaps this is more to your taste? There's even some relatively coherent bits...

Bloody rubbish, that!

And with good reason! Here's a whole 1'30" of a surprisingly mellow Brotz...

I can do nice! I once played a melody you know. Just the once, mind. Melodies and tunes are for losers. 🎶

We always get the drums set up first, with my amp on drummer's left and geetar on his right. Then we all drop 3 tabs of acid each and start on the Buckfast to prepare ourselves...

It is possible! I was once in the house band for a Blues Jam weekend with Dangerous Dave and Jerry Rockstar...

Excellently groovy player... Been a fan since hearing him with Hasidic New Wave and Screaming Headless Torsos.

So you likes it sugar-coated as well? 😝 So I'm guessing Brotzmann's out too?

S'funny how anything different is dismissed as "elitist twaddle" rather than just "don't like it". Do they want vinegar or mayo with those chips? 😀 Saying that, I've got my 1st jam next week in a "rock project" with a drummer who played with Evan Parker, Paul Dunmall etc - perhaps I'll start us off with. Nice blues in E...