risingson

[quote name='goblin' post='966841' date='Sep 24 2010, 03:59 PM']Sledgehammer - Peter Gabriel[/quote] We do Sledgehammer. I must admit I've not heard any other cover bands play it.

Hopefully based on the inconsistencies of their pricing it might fall to £500 soon and then I'll buy it! Wanted an F-Bass for ages

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='966823' date='Sep 24 2010, 03:44 PM']Consider that you don't like the bass and come back without it. I don't think the money (that few extra hundred quid) that you would have spent going to the US would be far from the money you lost from selling on an unheard/unseen bass on (especially as it could probably be sold as new). You'd have to come back with something you could guarantee on making a profit on to avoid being out of profit. That is the thing... making profit on imports is increasingly difficult.[/quote] I think it balances out quite well. It's not cheap, sure, but neither is the bass you're hoping to buy. The point being it is certainly something that I and many other musicians I know would consider doing if I was going to spend that sort of money on an instrument.

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='966803' date='Sep 24 2010, 03:22 PM']You tell me how cheap you can get to NYC, stay there, get a bass through customs etc...? I seriously don't think it's worth the hassle. If you happen to be going there on a holiday, business etc then maybe... but certainly not for just picking up a bass. The only cost effective thing going now is if you go over there and buy a batch of vintage basses and have them shipped back... then you can talk about making a little profit.[/quote] Definitely, but whilst that might be the case now it wasn't a few years back. It's also not as ridiculous as it sounds, yes it might be considerably more expensive now to go over and find a place to stay, flights etc. but it's really how much of an investment you consider the bass to be. Buying a guitar blind for that amount of cash is mental IMO if you haven't tried out at least a similar style of bass. For a lot of people I know who have done a similar thing and wanted an expensive U.S built guitar then such a purchase isn't to be made lightly. It's not the most practical thing to do in the world but a few extra hundred quid would sort you a flight and somewhere to stay for a day or two. [quote]At the end of the day, if it will sell, people will put the pricetags on their wares. If they can sell at this price, then good luck to the vendor. As a comparison, you can get Ferrari perforance for less than the price of a Ferrari but if you want that badge, you'll have to dig into your pockets. Similarly Fodera's preamp sells for a bucketload - is it worth the money? Probably not - certainly not in terms of components... but people will buy them to put in their own basses to get the sound of a Fodera. Will their bass sound anything like a Fodera... well, yes... but the bass still doesn't have a Fodera logo on the headstock. Whatever the perception of a Sadowsky, if you want the real deal Sadowsky, sticking their preamp in your bass is not enough. If people will pay the extra for the woodwork, then all power to Mr Sadowsky. He's built his name, gained a reputation for whatever reasons - and as a buyer, if you are prepared to drop the dollar, then get one. If you don't want one, don't open your wallet. It's easy. If you think they are overpriced or whatever, vote with your wallet. I'm sure Sadowsky would get the message if his basses didn't sell. What you have to remember is there is a high cost associated in getting expensive US instruments over here... import tax, vat, dealer markup... it's no wonder these basses end up costing so much. The cost of something being made in Japan is certainly not as cheap as Indonesia/China/Korea etc... and I'm sure that is factored into the final cost too. The comparison to Lakland is interesting... their Skyline range is made in Indonesia /(Korea? - I've lost track) and so the cheaper costs are reflected in their price. Now compare a US Lakland to a US Sadowsky... there's not a lot of difference...[/quote] Honestly, I completely understand. I'd sooner be a flash bastard and have a Ferarri or the new Merc SLS and suffer the £50,000 depreciation as I left the doors of the car dealership over having an Ariel Atom. I'm completely guilty of it myself. As I said before it's all in the eye of the beholder.

8 pages. I think I hate myself for carrying on talking about this.

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='966788' date='Sep 24 2010, 03:08 PM']I'm guessing because in order to buy an NYC, you have to go direct... and can't really try before you buy when you are on the other side of the Atlantic. Until quite recent years, you had a job to find a Metro to try let alone an NYC.[/quote] But a few years ago people were flocking to the U.S when the dollar/pound rate was so good just to bring back guitars and such as it often worked out cheaper than buying in the U.K depending on the product. Think about it, if you're spending upwards of £2000 on a bass guitar from NYC then it is probably worth considering actually going over there to get it.

[quote name='Toasted' post='966647' date='Sep 24 2010, 01:21 PM']Good to know I'm keeping up to my own high standards. FWIW, I don't currently own a Sadowsky. I had an NYC and I didn't like the tone - but I realise that was more to do with me than the bass.[/quote] You'll excuse me for asking and I don't mean to be offensive at all but why did you buy such an expensive bass in the first place if you didn't like the tone?

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='966707' date='Sep 24 2010, 02:07 PM']..or pretty any J bass with the Sadowsky electronics in it. Don't get bogged down in the mythical Sadowsky snake oil thing. There is no real secret ingredients in getting the Sadowsky tone - it's pretty much down to the pickups/circuit... it certainly doesn't come from the woods or construction (afterall, it's the same as pretty much every bolt on jazz type bass) What I will say is that Sadowsky have achieved the reputation they have through the quality of their constuction and the like... and also through Fender not being able to get their shop in order and get a run of nicely finished basses out there. Nice one for breaking through and giving Fender a run for their money I'd say. Give Mr Sadowsky a selection of seemingly identical wood to build basses from and whilst they may look identical, due to wood being organic, there will be a slight deviation in the sound - especially when run passively. You can never tell what a bass sounds like exactly until it's been built. The second you put a circuit in, the importance of the wood is not as great and the pickups/circuit has a greater influence on the tone than anything else.[/quote] I agree with this completely but it does only serve to strengthen the point that if build quality and the flagship Sadowsky preamp are what people look for from the brand, then it can be done a lot cheaper. I don't include the NYCs in that because if you want a bass built to your specifications then I think arguably they can justify charging you extra for it, that just the way things work, but the price of the Metros doesn't wash, and I think prospective Sadowsky Metro owners could be done a favour by the Japanese factory lowering their prices as they're paying too much for a bass that isn't considerably different to a cheaper Fender/Lakland/etc etc. Jazz bass aside from a reassurance of consistent build quality. That's unlikely to change however as currently Sadowsky are in demand from so many players.

[quote name='Mark Latimour' post='965780' date='Sep 23 2010, 04:27 PM']Funnily enough I think more people dislike MTD than Sadowsky basses. MTD are quite player specific. Now...poop on my Ritter and I will be upset! [/quote] Each to their own, eh? I just wish I had the money to purchase that F-Bass BN5 I tried in NYC a few months ago, now that was a sick bass!

[quote name='Mark Latimour' post='965760' date='Sep 23 2010, 04:12 PM']When all's said and done....MTD for the win! I have two and they poop on all of your basses! (runs and hides....)[/quote] I don't suppose this would be the right time to tell you about the bad experience I had with a MTD 535 a few months ago now would it?

Used one in Stockholm, it was absolutely superb, completely blew my mind how good the sound was!

[quote name='Musicman20' post='965719' date='Sep 23 2010, 03:47 PM']Haha, but you are still slightly insulting his intelligence now. Please dont get the nearest copy of the dictionary out! It does seem that you dont even realise you are doing it. Nay mind! Group hug?![/quote] Considering English was always my strongest subject I'm not in too much of a bind I don't think Group hug indeed!

[quote name='Mark Latimour' post='965655' date='Sep 23 2010, 02:52 PM']I'm not convinced you know what "hyperbole" is. Here's the last major "blowup" thread on Sadowskys on TB.....TBH I don't really see your point: [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=687759"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=687759[/url][/quote] You're good at the patronising thing aren't ya? You've been doing it all thread and it's not particularly endearing. Done arguing though, I think I've made my point and I don't think you've understood it.

[quote name='CHRISDABASS' post='965645' date='Sep 23 2010, 02:40 PM']Im finding this thread rather entertaining I love some good old banter At the end of the day folks try before you buy and only buy what YOU like be it a £100 squire or a £6000 Fodera, who cares? What matters is that you find something that inspires you to play [/quote] I completely 100% agree with this, hopefully this has been clear in what I've posted.

[quote name='Mark Latimour' post='965615' date='Sep 23 2010, 02:11 PM']Hyperbole FTW.[/quote] Hardly. You only have to take one look at a Talkbass post on Sadowskys to notice any criticism of current trending or popular brands is taken badly, and I do think this thread has become a pretty classic example of this.

So that's it then, Sadowsky once again remains immune to any detractors or any possibility that they are less than perfect I'm a fan of modern Jazz basses, but not Sadowsky, the sound let me down significantly every time. However, I wouldn't profess to tell people how to spend their money and I am in total agreement that if you like a product enough then of course whatever the asking price, it is a justified purchase. My opinion is that the asking price is too much for the product itself, and that you're paying a lot more for a brand as opposed to anything else. Sorry if it's not a popular opinion but it is my opinion.

[quote name='Mark Latimour' post='965496' date='Sep 23 2010, 12:32 PM']As I said, I didn't take issue with the rest of your post, I just used your opening line as an example. If that wasn't stated clear enough for you, I apologise, but I am not sure how much more clearly I could have stated it. As for me being a Sadowsky fan, to be honest I rarely play my Sadowsky at the moment, I prefer my other basses based on what I am playing at present. I think of myself more as an "anti-internet sillyness" fan rather than a Sadowsky fan. Its just you seem to see a lot of coincidence of internet sillyness in threads about basses like Sadowsky, Fodera, Ritter etc.[/quote] My reasoning for not enjoying Sadowskys as basses is purely personal, but you used the first line of my post to display an attitude of a few posters that you didn't like, or as you described it, 'silly'. What's silly about it? You might disagree that people have taken exception to Sadowskys being criticised, but there were a lot of people who definitely were in this post and got defensive about it very quickly. [quote]If this is directed at me its just a straw man. I never said that.[/quote] Not directed at you, rather another poster earlier on who said this: [quote]This thread is hilarious. A bunch of people who don't own Sadowsky basses telling those who do and gig them regularly that they're poor sounding basses.[/quote] Snobbish and condescending, also proof that people are taking criticism of a totally the wrong way. It's the problem with Sadowskys. I don't like them but that's just me, I'm sure people like Will Lee or Rickey Minor would disagree with me and I trust they know what they're talking about, but Sadowsky's suffer from internet hype and being the current trend which suddenly makes them immune to criticism on boards like this. Sorry, but having tried in excess of 5-6 Sadowskys now and now liking a single one then I'm as entitled to an opinion as anyone.

[quote name='Mark Latimour' post='965468' date='Sep 23 2010, 12:06 PM']Did you read the first line of my post? I was just using your statement as an example. I did read the rest of your post, but wasn't taking issue with the rest of it or you specifically. Hence the first line. I thought that was pretty clear.[/quote] It would seem obvious that I would reply to something you've quoted as me saying. I've read all of your posts now and can conclude you're obviously a big Sadowsky fan. So then if you did read the rest of my post you will have noticed that I actually agree with you, people can buy what they want, and you're right, a few internet detractors shouldn't deter them from paying for something that they want. [quote]Why would a Sadowsky owner be upset if you think a Sandberg sounds better?[/quote] Well clearly they are, aren't they? The last few pages have been nothing but Sadowsky owners getting annoyed that their basses have been criticised by non-owners of Sadowskys. I didn't realise you could only have an opinion on Sadowskys only if you've owned one in the past.

[quote name='Mark Latimour' post='965445' date='Sep 23 2010, 11:46 AM']Not to pick on you specifically, but this is the same silly assumption that comes up time and time again in these type of threads. Have a think about this: Why would a Sadowsky owner be upset if [b]you[/b] think a Sandberg sounds better? Anyone whos be playing music for 30 minutes knows that everyone has different tastes in what they think is the "gold standard" of tone. The reality is that Sadowsky owners (like the owner of any other type of bass) probably think that the brand of bass they play is the best one for [b]them[/b], but why would anyone in their right mind assume its the best one for everybody else? That makes no sense. Think about it, if there was only one "right" bass, then everyone would play that single brand and it would cost millions. I have rarely, if ever, seen a Sadowsky owner get upset because someone thinks another bass sounds better. In fact, for most Sadowsky fans, its better that other players don't "get it" (so to speak) because it keeps the prices of Sadowsky basses down and the quality up. Most Sadowsky players covet the quality of the construction, the consistency and the tone together. If demand keeps increasing you will either see longer waiting lists, higher prices or a drop in quality. None of them are desirable to Sadowsky owners. Quite frankly its better that more people think they are overpriced parts basses. What is silly is the stupid comments like "silly money for a production bass" or "its not worth it". Why? Because they are completely subjective values. You'd have to be pretty self absorbed to think that you have some kind of insight into the universal worth of any bass. The value depends wholly on what the market and any individual play is willing to pay and whether they think its best. People put different values on different things. I don't personally see the value in AC basses - not because they arn't just as well built as Sadowsky's, but because I prefer the more modern active jazz tone and AC basses go after the vintage jazz vibe. I have tried a number of Sandberg basses and while I found the sound to be fine, I wasn't as impressed by the quality as I have been with the basses that I own. Now, thats not a dig on those basses because the basses I own are more expensive than Sandbergs and I expect them to have better quality and attention to detail. At the end of the say its all relative, is a bass "worth it"? It kinda depends on how much money you've got. There are people out there who can buy a Sadowsky like someone can buy an SX. OTOH, if you are saving up for a bass you want to get the best one [b]for you[/b]. If its a Sadowsky then buy the Sadowsky, if its a Sandberg then buy a Sandberg. It would be stupid to play a Sandberg, think it was better than a Sadowsky and buy the Sadowsky. OTOH, it would be equally foolish IMO to not buy the tool that works best for you (if you can afford it) jsut because someone random internet dude thinks something "isn't worth it".[/quote] Did you read the rest my post at all or just the part where I said what you quoted me as saying?

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='965125' date='Sep 22 2010, 11:35 PM']Did he sell them all at car boot fairs [/quote] Yeh, I had to sell my VW Polo straight away after I saw he was conducting the carboot sale out of an old Focus

Looks like someone left a Mars Bar out in the sun too long!

Frankly, I should think he wouldn't care too much about a few detractors on an internet forum arguing why he has so many basses after selling millions of albums worldwide and becoming one of the most successful British recording artists ever. I think Chris Wolstenholme had the misfortune of becoming one of those cult bass players who's sound became one of the most widely imitated in current years. I've seen a few people go out and buy Pedullas, then sell them and get Rickenbackers because that's what he did, and then buy a Zon or whatever etc. etc. he probably must just laugh to himself and count himself lucky that so many people care about a sound that he created in the first place.

[quote]This thread is hilarious. A bunch of people who don't own Sadowsky basses telling those who do and gig them regularly that they're poor sounding basses.[/quote] [quote name='EBS_freak' post='965063' date='Sep 22 2010, 10:24 PM'] Here, here. Well said that man. Oh, and next time you are looking at Sandbergs also check out the daylight under the frets....[/quote] It's also natural that a load of Sadowsky owners (which I'm guessing you are) would take exception having shelled out a fortune for a bass, only for people then to say Sandbergs as an example sound better. I must say the build quality of both Sadowskys and Sandbergs were both very high, but sound wise I expected a hell of a lot more from the Sadowskys I tried and consistently it didn't deliver to my ears. This is purely personal preference and not a slight to Sadowsky owners. It's not just Sadowskys either, I've tried Pensas, MTDs, Dingwalls, Suhrs, Seis and other high end basses that IMO just didn't sound like the asking price to me. The only bass I've ever played that to my ears justified its price tag was a particularly beautiful F-Bass I tried in Rudy's NYC and also a Celinder Update 4 which was just incredibly good. You probably shouldn't take it to heart, I keep reading time and time again on here how bad P-Basses are designed and how terrible they sound, but to be honest I couldn't care less, I love the sound of my old P-Bass w/flats more than anything else and from my experience nothing beds a track better. It's all preference. I think Metro asking prices are ludicrous but it's all in the eye of the beholder innit

[quote name='Chris2112' post='964394' date='Sep 22 2010, 12:47 PM']Although the Sandberg California J basses sounded and felt much better than the Sadowsky Metros through the same amp for considerably less; perhaps there is something to be said for A/B'ing these things! [/quote] Late to the argument here, but every Sandberg California Jazz 4/5 I've tried have actually sounded consistently better than any Sadowsky NYC and Metro/ultra Jazz I have ever tried, and I have now tried a lot of Sadowskys. The Sandberg sounded better sonically to my ears and is a lot cheaper as well. I really wanted to love Sadowskys but I just didn't, and I also think the Metros are stupidly overpriced IMO. The sound is a personal thing and the Sadowsky sound just doesn't do it for me. Also, the whole in/out of the mix thing is pretty ridiculous. If you don't like the sound of a bass then why would you consider having it in the first place? What's the point in picking up a bass and taking it to a gig if you can't get excited about playing it by yourself? It makes absolutely no sense.