risingson

[quote name='skej21' post='989743' date='Oct 15 2010, 10:36 PM']Unless I was studying in America, I'd hope it was called a quaver [/quote] I got taught in quaters eights and sixteenths, most jazz players talk like this also on both sides of the pond.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='989745' date='Oct 15 2010, 10:37 PM']Yep (sorry cars again!) but theres an old chap near me that does tuning on all the old classic cars by ear just like a musician and they run sweet as a nut. Experience of knowing what he is listening for just the same as playing in a band IMO.[/quote] Yep that's what it's all about.

[quote name='skej21' post='989709' date='Oct 15 2010, 10:08 PM']To be fair, theory is like every other aspect of music. Some people put in the effort, practice and time and it underpins their practical knowledge and some people think of it as a hoop to jump through. Personally, I think theory is hugely important in making sure you have a solid understanding of your function within an ensemble, and more importantly, the musical impact your part has within a piece/composition. This maybe a personal view and down to my extensive theoretical study (Grade 8 [Distinction] and LLCM) I think theory is important, because every time I do anything theory based, I think about how it would be if I was playing it, whereas a lot of people think of music theory solely as an exercise on paper.[/quote] I completely agree although I never once meant to suggest that theory was unimportant as a player, quite the opposite in fact... more the point that graded exams given classical boards do not outline the practical and theoretical necessities of a popular musician. Only experience can do this, and that's my problem with the graded exams; if you're raised as a classical musician in this country it can be expected that you will have to jump through the necessary hoops to become a formally trained player, but as a guitarist/bassist/drummer etc. it is rare that a person new to such an instrument would approach it with a view to taking formal lessons. Most pop players take up their instrument after being inspired to join a band/watching the Foo Fighters play and thinking 'yeh I'd like to do that' and all the other cliches. Theory IS important if you want to be an established player, but you will not get good at it by taking an popular music exam laid out by a classical music board.

[quote name='TimR' post='989696' date='Oct 15 2010, 09:49 PM']What do you base this observation on? What theory grade have you studied to?[/quote] I base it on long term experience playing with people that claim to be proficient under the guise of graded examinations. I studied to Grade 5 theory as I had to to go on and study music in Liverpool, but I only took the exam because I had to really. It's seen as an essential thing to have, but this I also believe was more to do with filtering out those with and without basic theoretical knowledge from my particular course (the wrong way to do it IMO).

[quote name='sambassman' post='989675' date='Oct 15 2010, 09:29 PM']you dont find many naff grade 8ers[/quote] That isn't true either, I have known some people that tout their grades as a way of showing how good they are as musicians, despite being absolutely diabolical. Sorry I don't mean to completely oust your point and I understand what you're getting at, but all a Grade-8 ABRSM goes to show is that you can follow rules very well, the theoretical side of graded exams has no bearing on popular music as it stands whatsoever. There is a misconception that pop music should be standardised and treated like classical music, but at the end of the day you're either a good musician or you're not, no amount of grades are going to change that or make you more qualified.

[quote name='sambassman' post='989667' date='Oct 15 2010, 09:22 PM']LCM dont accept anyone under a grade 8 standard.[/quote] No offense I hope but that means literally jack about someone as a musician, literally nothing at all.

Also at the risk of slightly hijacking the thread, I did up the '59 reissue P-Bass up you sold me a few months ago Mark and now it's looking like this! [attachment=61474:photo.jpg] Needed a bit of work on it but it's playing excellently now, few minor changes/new PG/flatwounds and it's sounding excellent

I think musicians out of such institutes can definitely come with a bad attitude, and a close mind when it comes down to music as well because of the way they've been taught by lecturers, though this by no means goes for all musicians that come from such esteemed institutes. I happen to know a lot of people that think they're the sh*t because they're hot on their jazz and reading, but when it comes down to playing other kinds of stuff they just overplay badly.

[quote name='Bilbo' post='988269' date='Oct 14 2010, 06:44 PM']Words? I write instrumental music that never gets performed. The music I play live is generally the same sh*te everyone else does! So its Lerner and Loewe, Jerome Kern, Hoagy Carmichael, [b]George Gershwin[/b], Sammy Cahn, Stevie Wonder.......[/quote] Sorry, only just picked up on this but I can't remember the last time 'Rhapsody in Blue' got spanked out on a rusty old clarinet in my local pub? Am I missing something here?

Don't play the verse riff, leave it to the clav part if you've got a keys player, it sounds daft on bass. Just put that Eb flat on every beat (don't play it in E... every cover band on earth does that. Followed by crowbarring in Wild Cherry 'Play That Funky Music'). I like to use an octaver on this particular tune when we play live. Stevie Wonder's left hand is still up there with my favourite bassists.

[quote name='AndyTravis' post='988703' date='Oct 15 2010, 12:41 AM']They're a band from Saddleworth called the 99's, they do their own thing, and sometimes they do the odd beatles gig to fund new gear/recordings. They've done really well, considering it's nothing revolutionary. I work with Johnny the singer/guitarist. Our Financial Director from work had heard about them and booked them for his wifes birthday party, she's a big beatles fan so that's what's being asked for. Brownie points with the boss, bit of cash and free booze. Winner.[/quote] Gigs like it have got to be done to foot the bills sometimes. I know a lot of Beatles cover bands, two of my mates play in one and go the whole hog... outfits, Gretsch and Rik gear, the lot. Best of luck.

I suspect Mark meant this with a bit of tongue in cheek... he sold me a really lovely P-Bass a few months back and is a complete gem of a guy! It's a shame you had a bad experience with LCM students Mark BUT I know some absolutely superb players that have come out of there, Leeds is particularly good for horn players. Having went to LIPA I often wish I'd ended up in Leeds instead, I reckon I would have got a lot more out of it.

Neck pickup, roll your tone off about half way, foam under the bridge for the muted sound of tapewounds and a healthy dose of low mids. Pick essential. [quote name='AndyTravis' post='988620' date='Oct 14 2010, 11:28 PM']Ps - if you hate Macca/the Beatles, don't post in this thread, i couldn't give a f***.[/quote] I especially loved this part of your post Andy What are the band called out of interest?

Three words... Boards of Canada.

[quote name='TimR' post='988261' date='Oct 14 2010, 06:40 PM']Ok so the Coverband thread is getting long and I think the point is getting missed. How many of you as bass players actually have any input into your originals band songs other than helping with the arrangement by coming up with a nice bass line. Pual McCartney is a good example of a good song writer who also played bass. It's not meant to be a contentious issue but I'm sure it will become one. Really I'm just interested.[/quote] I do. I love songwriting, as a musician I would feel completely unfulfilled if I couldn't write and perform my own music. Bass is my main instrument on which I am most competent but I do basically all my writing on guitar.

[quote name='BassBus' post='985627' date='Oct 12 2010, 12:42 PM']Perhaps this makes your point. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLwLPseckQ4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLwLPseckQ4[/url] Very competent playing but for me it doesn't really fit in with the latic rhythm behind it.[/quote] Yeh, classic example. It's like in conversation, people sometimes need to exert their perceived level of intelligence upon someone else just by saying too much, and it's just not required. [quote]depends on your definition of great. I would say the (arguably) second most successful bassist in popular music could be considered great by that fact alone, but he has poor technique by just using his thumb to pick.[/quote] You mean Sting? Sting isn't a tight player. Sting knows this, every producer and band member he's played with knows this. But listening to some of the multitracks off of off Synchronicity, the guy just hit the nail on the head with what was required.

[quote name='BassBus' post='984892' date='Oct 11 2010, 08:50 PM']Now this is the point I was trying to put across. There are great players out there without any training and technique to their playing that is not accepted as the norm. Perhaps it's those players who move ability forward taking it to new areas which the rest of us follow.[/quote] Technique is a nice thing, the problem comes when technique compromises your musicality, I see it all the time when I go to gigs and see people compensating for a lack of musicality with a flurry of slapping and tapping, executed with little to no discretion. IMO there are too many bass players that suffer from the idea that without mind-bending technique, their position as a bass player is going to be viewed as a simple/easy post that anyone with basic knowledge of music could fill. Wrong... bass is all about feel and timing. It takes years of practice to get it right.

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='984616' date='Oct 11 2010, 05:05 PM']Nice he has a lesson with the actual basics on there. Flea doing that is pretty much the ideal thing.[/quote] +1 I think Flea is a great example for younger bass players, he appreciates he's got younger fans and is really tackling the basics and speaking in a language beginners can understand easily. I've got massive respect for him.

D'Addario's. Don't like DR's, I think they're too expensive for what they are, whereas D'Addarios are considerably cheaper and IMO a superior string.

[quote name='MacDaddy' post='984331' date='Oct 11 2010, 12:40 PM']so what do we think of Jamerson? Appalling technique - no teacher would advise a pupil to just pick with one finger - yet we can't deny his genius.[/quote] No way, Jamerson didn't have appalling technique! He had unconventional technique, but in no way was it appalling. There is no right or wrong way to do anything in the realms of popular music. Your technique isn't up for severe scrutiny unless it is unnecessarily impeding the song you're playing, that's the only time technique becomes an issue. It's preferable to have good technique of course because otherwise it proves difficult to play what you can hear in your head. But ultimately surely technique is the thing that should compliment your musicality and not the other way round, that's when you develop the bedroom players on Youtube that can fretw*nk till their hands fall off but give them a I IV V and they go to sh*t.

The Beatles, Jamerson's seat at Hitsville or Nathan Watts' later with Stevie Wonder. Not that I would have done any justice to any of their music like the original bass players did.

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='981666' date='Oct 8 2010, 03:07 PM']I'm staunch in my beliefs. And they're closed for business.[/quote] A strange attitude to take, equally I think this sort of thing can leave you jaded and pining for the old days. I'm happy to concede that music is no where near as good as it used to be, but what are you so afraid of? Actually finding out there is something within the past three years you've actually enjoyed?

[quote name='chaypup' post='981653' date='Oct 8 2010, 02:51 PM'][url="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10201932"]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10201932[/url] The top 2 spaces are occuppied by The Beatles. I'm not rubbishing Ken in particular, I just don't like the myth that music was great at one time and it's not now. If that was the case then there would be no point playing anymore - just listen to old records.[/quote] I never said that there wasn't good music out now... there is, but nowhere near the volume that there used to be. More attention was paid to great songwriting back in the day, conversely nowadays this simply isn't the case.

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='981641' date='Oct 8 2010, 02:45 PM']Say what you like about the monstrous record companies of yore but they acted as a fairly efficient sh*t filter. Now that every self-deluding spod and his mate has got garageband, the netz is an arse-flood of derivative, badly executed material with all the appeal of a nasty case of projectile leprosy. I'd be perfectly happy to see a revival of interest in 'Originals' if the output was any good. It isn't.[/quote] I partially agree but there IS always good music out there, you just need to look a little harder for it, and approach it with an open mind. There is still talent out there.

[quote name='chaypup' post='981611' date='Oct 8 2010, 02:22 PM']You need to look past the top 10 then - The second biggest selling artist in the UK of the 1960's was Ken Dodd - quality songwriting?????[/quote] What's your source on that? EDIT - just had a look. Fine, he was (third, not second), but look what else was in the charts that year. The Rolling Stones, The Beatles, The Byrds, Bob Dylan, Sam Cooke, Otis Redding, James Brown, The Temptations...