risingson

[quote name='flyfisher' post='1016765' date='Nov 8 2010, 07:14 PM']... but I'm not sure about Sting being bigger than the Police.[/quote] If you're talking in assets then I think it's fair to say that that's definitely the case, also probably from a sales perspective too.

Also, I hate the word groove, it's bandied around too much to describe bass players and drummers often in a totally contrived way. But that's just me being massively cynical.

Unfortunately no one takes up guitar or bass with a view to learning the instrument like they would, say, a violin for example. Classical music dictates that you must learn to read from the word go. Conversely, most kids pick up a guitar at a young age because you want to play the rock music you love or look like Dave Grohl playing with the Foo Fighters or whatever so the ambition or 'seed' to learn theory is never planted in the head of that person. I did this exact thing, until I joined a big band when I was 16 or so and learnt to read and get by with chord charts. I then went on to study music at Uni, and am currently in a position where I play in my own band making my own music and have no read 'need' to put my reading skills to use. However, once you've learnt to read, those skills will be with you forever, it's like riding a bike. If I get the opportunity to take on a reading gig tomorrow for a bit of extra cash then I could take it. It's all about having as many strings to your bow as possible. The groove OR theory thing is stupid. I have an excellent ear and a good feel, and whilst this might a bit egotistical of me to say it's true, and I rely on most of the time to translate what I hear onto my bass. Theory is something I struggled with for a while but I've got a good grip of it nowadays and it compliments my good ear by allowing me to vocalise or write down what I hear in music, not just bass lines but melodies, rhythmic lines, alto, tenor parts, whatever if I wanted to. It never hurts to know more.

[quote name='chris_b' post='1015817' date='Nov 7 2010, 10:20 PM']Don't blame Pete Academy just because people have got their megaphones out.[/quote] I think the post was good natured but there's no way the question can be answered, it's not a case of one or the other. Put it this way Pete: you need both if ever you wanted to play professionally with Donald Fagan.

The term '7 string bass' sends a shiver up my spine but hey, maybe it's not for me to understand! Best of luck with the build.

[quote name='skej21' post='1015606' date='Nov 7 2010, 07:47 PM']Why is it theory VERSUS groove. Surely I'm not the only bassist on here that can do both, and at the same time? In fact, it's impossible to groove without theory and it's impossible to understand theory without being able to put it into practice.[/quote] Exactly. Some people seem to think it's an endless battle between the two. It's not.

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='1015604' date='Nov 7 2010, 07:46 PM']Lock in with the drummer, and make sure the groove is there. The audience will love you.[/quote] Actually, most of the time the audience won't even notice you're doing anything different

If you don't have feel for music there is no point having theoretical knowledge as you'll never be an interesting musician to listen to.

I played St. George's hall recently in Liverpool which if you're not familiar with is more or less a massive cathedral inside. Very beautiful but our sound was entirely uncontrollable.

Gimme Shelter - Rolling Stones Optimistic - Radiohead Dayvan Cowboy - Boards of Canada Digital Love - Daft Punk King of Pain - The Police As - Stevie Wonder Rock With You - Michael Jackson Shell of Light - Burial Stay With You - Lemon Jelly Amo Bishop Roden - Boards of Canada

[quote name='JTUK' post='1014446' date='Nov 6 2010, 04:32 PM']I have to say....am pissing myself laughing here. same old, same old..[/quote] Tough. It's a forum, anything is up for discussion within reason. Don't like it then go and talk to someone else, I thought that would be obvious instead of making pointless remarks like the one above, greatest of respect intended. [quote]But you would be much better at math. You may not be the best but you can be much better. With enough study you could get to the point where the average person could not distinguish you from true genius. It would take someone with your new level of skill to make the distinction.[/quote] Not really. There are classical players I know that have played for the sake of playing, their upbringing and level of education requires them to learn an instrument to a high standard. One violinist I knew was technically very proficient from a young age, but the soul and passion in her playing wasn't evident, and that can't be dressed up in any level of expertise. You need to love what you do, not be coerced into it by a pushy parent or teacher. A robotic and stiff performance will most certainly be apparent in a live situation.

[quote name='silddx' post='1014248' date='Nov 6 2010, 01:33 PM']I think you're right for the most part. The fact is, if you have a crap ear, or can't THINK music, no amount of theory or reading is going to elevate you from being a machine operator. Just like knowing all that theory won't make you into a great songwriter. It's really all about whether you have an aptitude for making music, a kind of instinct and desire. The rest is all augmentation and helping make you the most EFFICIENT and PROFESSIONAL musician you can be. Therefore, knowing theory and being able to read notation can NEVER be a negative.[/quote] It's like maths. I'm sh*t at it, but should I read up on it, practice it daily and perfect the way I read and write it, would I be good at it? I'd know about it and be able to bore you to death talking about it and I'd probably have a good understanding of it, but I'll never be a mathematician. There is a school of thought that contests that we are all born with the same aural abilities; our development in infancy and how we choose to use our ears during the early stages of our lives dictates whether or not we can harbour the ability to be good musicians should we choose to be. I believe this to be true, there are people I know who will never be good at music no matter how much they enjoy it. I think that theory is only the result of the human ability to create music in the first place, of course that's true, but in the same way we consider in this day and age literacy to be of the utmost importance to the development of an educated individual, so it stands to reason that maybe the same applies to musicians. I'm not saying it's the be all and end all; in fact I would wager that most of my favourite bands do not have good theoretical knowledge. What I will say is that it can't hurt to know more.

[quote name='silddx' post='1014186' date='Nov 6 2010, 12:45 PM']Yes but come on guys! This is pretty basic stuff. I know what things sound like and can sometimes put names to them, it's not rocket salad is it, for someone who's played that long. Can you tell the sound of a minor scale from a major? Most musicians can. BUT, if Wakeman said "Chris! Would an A[i]b[/i] Diminished scale work over a D Minor chord sequence modulating into E Major?" would he be able to answer? That's the sort of thing I mean by THEORY. Not, knowing the sound of a whole tone scale, most of us could probably sing that couldn't we?[/quote] I think if you have to think that hard about music whether you're theoretically competent or not then you're going about music the wrong way. Nothing should have to be hard when you play your given instrument, the short and tall of it is that knowing your theory means that you're less likely to hit a wall in your playing where you're struggling to understand what to do next. This doesn't necessarily mean that you require 4 years of formal training and a doctorate in music, it really is just common sense. For example, knowing how harmony works and what makes up chords, knowing rhythm and knowing how to transcribe stuff by ear is going to further you as a musician whether you choose to use these skills or not (quite frankly it is inevitable that you will as a bass player). I don't know much about Chris Squire other than the fact he was (is?) Yes's bass player but he seems like a good musician. Would he be a better player if he knew his theory? Maybe. Would be be a more competent musician? Undoubtedly. All I know is that people some musicians writhe when they hear theory being discussed because they naturally assume it's all about sitting down in front of a page of dots... that's not what theory is about, it's about knowing what your doing in any given situation. If you choose to use theory minus any sort of dispassionate approach to music e.g. start reharmonising things that don't need reharmonising and messing with the head of the keyboard player and guitarist, then that's indicative of poor musicianship. Simple. Bottom line is it never hurts to know what you're doing.

McCartney is a brilliant bassist.

[quote name='nick' post='1013518' date='Nov 5 2010, 05:28 PM']Friend of mine's got me into Holy f***. So that's on the menu at the moment. Really liking their stuff, quite varied.... [/quote] Nice choice, unfortunate name but good band.

[quote name='AndyTravis' post='1013906' date='Nov 6 2010, 12:49 AM']Spotted a Jap 90's Fender bass VI on the Gallery website. [url="http://www.thebassgallery.com/product_details.cfm?ID=1597&type=Bass"]http://www.thebassgallery.com/product_deta...7&type=Bass[/url] Guitar I've asked them to ring me tomorrow if it's still there, been after one for years - Placebo 'Pure Morning' did it for me, and my brother and I are huge Jaguar/Jazzmaster/Mustang/Jagstang freaks. They're asking a grand, seems around what these Jap reissues are going for on eBay etc. It's been on their page for a week, so I doubt it's still about. Would be interested if anybody local to the Gallery has seen it? Thanks for any info/opinions. Trav[/quote] The tone Brian Molko got out of those things was nothing short of brilliant. I'd really like one.

I used to have a big thing for Warwicks and still play a Corvette on occasion. I really loved the last Streamer Stage II I played sound wise and I think I'd still like a Stage I but I just couldn't justify the price, it's way too much, there are other basses I would have sooner.

I couldn't cope with either ones on my P-Bass, the one at the bridge stayed for a while but was inhibiting my palm-muting and that I simply couldn't abide.

Hypothetical questions. Who'll ever know?

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='1012427' date='Nov 4 2010, 06:59 PM']He may be a top bloke, but as top blokes go, Janek out-tops him in the top bloke league table. And Janek can do magic tricks, too.[/quote] I know which one I'd prefer to listen to though

Got asked by a mate if I wanted to join his band. I didn't play anything at the time but told him I could probably play bass. Our other mate got drums, he got a guitar. They gave up after a year, and I've been playing for the 9 years since then.

Likewise I'd never heard of him until I started posting on sites like this. He replied to something I had to say, actually seemed like a nice chap although I did notice he was involved with a few other members who weren't exactly mincing their words and I think he was getting pretty pissed off by this. Whether this was the right reaction for him has probably been talked about a million times over now I'm guessing. His playing doesn't do it for me, I don't enjoy the music he's involved with, but clearly he's a talented player... just not for me.

[quote name='Chris2112' post='1010266' date='Nov 3 2010, 01:37 AM']If I have one issue with the Bongo it's knowing that the body is basswood. Still, they are well finished in a variety of attractive finishes and they sound good so it's not a massive issue![/quote] Surely any sonic disparities with basswood as a tonewood would be diminished by those active electronics in the Bongo though?

Props to Irish composer Patrick Cassady for writing this beautiful piece of music originally used in 'Hannibal' and later used in 'Kingdom of Heaven'. Absolutely incredible